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Underground > Temple >

Subterreanean cities

08:53 / 29.11.06

Hi,

In 'The House of Dr. Dee' Peter Ackroyd mentions a belief of a subterreanean city below London. In the novel Dr. Dee goes in search of it and finds an entrance on the Isle of Dogs.

Does anyone know of any folkloric reference for this belief. Or if John Dee ever wrote about it?

Regards,

Jamie

09:45 / 29.11.06

gets large coverage in one hellblazer volume, and in the novel "underground" by neil gaiman. the hellblazer volume seems to be using a bunch of urban legends. but both are merely fictional works as opposed to FOLK tales, so... hope it helps anyway.

A fall of geckos

10:23 / 29.11.06

The only mentions of an underground society beneath London that I'm aware of are old (I believe Victorian) urban legends amonst the Toshers of a society of intelligent rats complete with a rat queen who could assume human form.

One of these legends was passed down the Sweetly family of Bermondsy and specified that if you were approached by the queen rat in the form of a woman, you should sleep with her and if she was satisfied she would give you a blessing (luck in work etc).

Jerry Sweetly (who died in the 1880s) claimed to have met the queen rat, and got both luck for his family and a curse for offending her when she bit him to mark him.

Girls born to the wife of anyone who'd had sex with the queen rat would have miss-matched eyes - one blue and one grey (for the colour of the Thames).

If you're interested, more info on this can be found in Westwood and Simpson's The Lore of The Land - London and Middlesex chapter.

I'm beginning to wonder if it's worth knocking up a London googlemap/linked wiki of folklaw and oddities - for psychogeographic use.

11:04 / 29.11.06

Try these links for a start;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_citadels_under_London
http://www.londonrailways.net/secret.htm
http://www.amazon.co.uk/London-Under-Subterranean-Guide/dp/0719552885
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwhere

11:50 / 29.11.06

If the Discovery and History channels are to be believed (and I think they are, given the on-site footage), a lot of older cities have multiple layers of city beneath them. Reasons for building up vary, but it's not at all uncommon. It's not uncommon for the first subterranean layer to be in common use as household cellars and underground shops.

That's not terribly mysterious, but it is pretty fascinating.

--Ember--

12:01 / 29.11.06

I doubt Dee wrote anything about it though, in those days there was not much under london.

12:35 / 29.11.06

Thanks everybody for your help!

14:08 / 29.11.06

If the Discovery and History channels are to be believed (and I think they are, given the on-site footage), a lot of older cities have multiple layers of city beneath them.

Yeah, Discovery Channel! Have you seen the segment on the the Catacombs of Paris? They talk about the process of moving all these bones from their former burial plots, how night after night there was a constant processional throught the streets of Paris with a priest performing the Rites and Consecrations and ringing a bell as the bones were moved en masse. It took years to complete the transfer. Years of nights when the dead moved about the Paris streets, accompanied by the ringing of a bell. I find that such a wonderfully haunting image.

Pretty nice virtual tour here if anyone's interested.

Slightly OT, I know, but I thought it worth mentioning.

14:18 / 29.11.06

I think the Gaiman novel is "Neverwhere". It actually pretty good.

15:21 / 29.11.06

Here's an old Laboratory thread on underground cities.

I've still never seen Underground Beijing, although I really want to (and have been to Beijing twice).

21:08 / 29.11.06

I think the Gaiman novel is "Neverwhere". It actually pretty good.

I like the novel more than the series, even though the series was created first.

--Ember--

13:27 / 30.11.06

The television series? I only remember seeing half an episode. Would it be worth getting out.

/offtopic

13:49 / 30.11.06

No - not at all, cheap and hammy at best.

23:44 / 01.12.06

Well, I like it enough to own it, but then I like campy Sci-Fi/Fantasy stuff, and I collect Neil Gaiman's work in general.

--Ember--