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Cotytto

  
 
Papess
16:23 / 21.11.06
Cotytto-godchecker.com
Cotytto-pantheon.org
Kotys-theoi.com

From my homework in the The Magickal homework thread and the Creation's homework thread here. I have come to learn of the Goddess Cotytto. In my quest to get to know this obscure Goddess, I did journeying and utilized creative visualization techniques.

***

From Milton's Comus:
"Goddesse of Nocturnal sport
Dark vaild Cotytto, t' whom the secret flame
Of mid-night Torches burns; mysterious Dame
That ne're art call'd, but when the Dragon woom
Of Stygian darknes spets her thickest gloom,
And makes one blot of all the ayr..."

I began by opening my altar as usual. I did a general cleansing of my space. I made offerings to Cotytto, among which will be the completion of the Her portrait. (Rule number one: Never, ever approach a Goddess empty-handed!). I stated my intentions to the Universe and requested permission from the Goddess Cotytto.

To help shift my conciousness I used music and a trampoline. I used the trampoline to mimic the movement of sexual gyrations and it is also similar to the movement of the sea. The effect of which, was a balance of abandon and control. I concentrated on this feeling. When I could sustain this feeling without the various physical stimuli, I shut it down, somewhat in stages, and went into a cocoon-like state. I employed the methods I understand and cleansed in the void and then materialised out of the void a "Kappa" and absorbed it into me. Here is where the creative visualization ends and I start to feel like a leaf in the wind.

I was swept into a waterspout sucking me downward into a sea anemone (?!). I was swallowed up. I felt like I was in an electric vagina. The shocks weren't hurting me, but I could feel them. It made me feel raw and vulnerable, however. After that , I was spit out of the anemone and onto a partially rocky shore where I was met by the Priestess. We were both wearing whitish, sheer material. I asked her if she would take me to see the Goddess Cotytto. She gestured to the scene behind her. There half-lit by bonfires and torches on a moonless night, were a silhouetted, twisted garden of people with altars, arches, and idols, set amongst them. The Priestess motioned for me to approach the gathering, which, I did.

Once we reached the edge of the gathering we were greeted by a man who asked me a question. I simply looked back to the Priestess and she, I believe, explained to him that I was here to meet the Goddess. He let us pass through. At this time everything became enhanced, somehow. I was beginning to realise what was going on around me and I had no idea where to put my eyes. I tried not to stare too long, for two reasons. One, I know if anything grabs my attention for too long I could get sucked into a tangient. I wanted to stay focused on what I came for. And two, I fell back on habits developed from going to fetish bars. One just does't stare uninvited. (In retrospect, I think this is were my ego started to flow back, or take me back, or whatever it does.) Now, I caught a few glimpses of some acts of a perverse variety, but what I actually saw was not completely unpalatable, but there was something going on with pregnant women and newborns I did not care to look at in detail.How I saw these instances is in a snapshot that took really, no time at all. It was a frozen moment with no pre-text, and my guess is as good as anyone's as to what happened next. I didn't ask the Priestess either. I don't think I wanted to know more. However, my speculating on the possibilities and making hype about it is not good. I didn't get the gory details, I didn't want the gory details. (I did see stuff that I definitely wasn't comfortable with, however, I do believe that I only saw what I could deal with.) There was a constant odour in the air that sat in my belly. The only times I have smelled anything that penetrating was from incense in a temple or from a dead body. One other thing I can say for certain is that people were covered in what looked like rags and filth.

Realising that I would have to return soon as I was unable to sustain the journey much longer, we zipped to the shoreline, where Cotytto made an appearance. I finally stared, in awe. She was giant. I found myself, face down in sand. I don't know how, maybe the Priestess pushed me. I don't know, but it felt like the right thing to do, even though the tide was rising fast. I looked up slightly and saw there was some communion taking place between the Priestess and Cotytto. The Priestess stradled a very large phallus and entered the Goddess' opening (vagina, I suppose). Cotytto secreted something and I was washed up in it onto my meditation bed.

Praise to Cotytto!

Does someone have access to this article and would it be worth purchasing?

I will add to this and comment on it. I have so much real life stuff to do, ATM. I promise though, I will follow this up and I owe somebody a portrait!

Actually, I now owe 2 somebodies!
 
 
Princess
15:12 / 22.11.06
If you PM me your address I can get you free access. Behold, I have the £337 4(4Ð3|\/|14 p0\/\/3®$!!!
 
 
Papess
17:02 / 22.11.06
Thank you, Princess! I assume you mean my email address. I will PM it to you. Once again, I am in a hurry, ATM. I will comment more later.

I suppose I need to get my hands on Milton's Comus, ASAP. I think there is another work from classic english literature that has a depiction of Cotytto. It is so difficult to deal with, but also it is very exciting trying to rediscover this Goddess. Whether I am completely accurate or not is part of my discovery process. I am enjoying the journey. I am enjoying unfolding this Mystery of the Goddess, Cotytto.
 
 
Papess
16:27 / 28.11.06
Just some points...

1.)I think my personal experiences influence my approach in this journey quite a bit. I have a really well developed boundry line. I have to have one. I think I was sheilding myself. I know what is beyond that veil, I really do not need to check that out. My mission, besides, was to see the Goddess Cotytto – i have lived my life in service of nocturnal sports and immodesty, already. However, I think it was relevant to the journey to feel disgusted and purged of desire.

2.)I let myself afterward, be taken by some fears. Please ignore this. I cannot honestly say I saw anything horrific, but Cotytto Herself, I would describe as having breathtaking, monstrous beauty. Events I saw could definitely be described as immodest, vulgar, and perhaps not to my taste, but not horrific. My apologies

3.)To try and authenticate this journey, if I can, I was thinking of dating the layout of the area and the style of the artifacts. My ignorance - when journeying - can be a safegaurd, of sorts.

4.)The secretion at the end, I am not so sure about. That could have been the waves in the sea water.
 
 
Ticker
17:44 / 28.11.06
well on one hand I'm very glad to read your accounts, but on the other I'm prompted by your current discomfort in how you're presenting the info to people who didn't have direct experience of the Goddess and, well, you know that's why sometimes these things fall into the Mystery category. Had to have been there and all that.

It's hard because there is great worth in processing these things in the company of others but at the same time explaining something sacred to someone else can interfer with the memory of the experience.

You may have been horrified and that was important to your encounter with Her and Her acolytes but I'm reading concern on your part about how you are representing Her on here. It's a big sucko part of modern practice that many of us don't have initiated elders in the faith (or peers) so we bump into this all the time.

You're doing a great job of representing and educating about Her as you are have these interactions but when you fall short in your own eyes remember it isn't about the viewing audience. It's about you and Her.
 
 
Papess
16:57 / 29.11.06
well on one hand I'm very glad to read your accounts, but on the other I'm prompted by your current discomfort in how you're presenting the info to people who didn't have direct experience of the Goddess and, well, you know that's why sometimes these things fall into the Mystery category. Had to have been there and all that.

So true. I am glad you liked reading about the account, xk. You are absolutely right - that people need to "have been there" - to really understand. That is an option though, people can go there. I would encourage people to have their own experiences with Cotytto. It is a very personal journey, yes.

It's hard because there is great worth in processing these things in the company of others but at the same time explaining something sacred to someone else can interfer with the memory of the experience.

Being able to post this here does help process this.

I don't think it is my memory, (as in forgetfulness), that is an issue. I feel it is my interpretation of events. I feel like a witness when journeying. I watch things, sometimes not so closely. Sometimes, there is something completely foreign to me, and quite honestly, I don't know how to name what it is I am seeing.

You may have been horrified and that was important to your encounter with Her and Her acolytes but I'm reading concern on your part about how you are representing Her on here. It's a big sucko part of modern practice that many of us don't have initiated elders in the faith (or peers) so we bump into this all the time.

Yes, a little guidance would be helpful.

You're doing a great job of representing and educating about Her as you are have these interactions but when you fall short in your own eyes remember it isn't about the viewing audience. It's about you and Her.

Thank you, and it is about my relationship to Cotytto. Part of that relationship is my doing Her the service of talking about my experience. Her archetype may resonate with some and maybe others will work with Her. Maybe not, but either way, I felt I owe it to Cotytto to express my observances. Even if I feel a little uncomfortable, vulnerable, or foolish.

I realised I was blurring the line a bit, so, whatever horrors I may, or may not have seen, they are my horrors. If people want to see this, they will see their own. I believe, here lies a key in Her initiatory process. It is just a guess though.
 
 
Ticker
18:02 / 29.11.06
You know I truly wish I could bring myself to don the pith helmet, grab the clip board & a nice sexy evening to go visit such an amazingly interesting Deity. However, however, experience has lead me to believe that unless I want to work with Them I'd best hear about these things second hand from Their dedicated staff members. I know some of Them are down with training exchange programs and polite drive by offerings but I tend to error on the side of caution these days.
 
 
Papess
18:42 / 29.11.06
I totally understand. That is exactly how I feel about this working. To each their own.

However, however, experience has lead me to believe that unless I want to work with Them I'd best hear about these things second hand from Their dedicated staff members.

Glad to be of service.
 
 
Ticker
18:43 / 29.11.06
heh.

Well does Herself have specific sites you're planning to visit?
 
 
Papess
11:08 / 30.11.06
Well does Herself have specific sites you're planning to visit?

I don't know. I am wondering if there is any relationship between the the Thracian and Maltese Goddesses, however.
 
 
Ticker
14:02 / 30.11.06
I am wondering if there is any relationship between the the Thracian and Maltese Goddesses, however.

That is a question I have of many of the ancient Gods. I had a chance to speak with a priestess of Artemis a few months ago and we had a truly fascinating discussion about the personality differences between certain aspects and local manifestations of the Deity. Turns out the priestess found in her experience that some of Them were in fact different Deities and others were the same Deity.

I suspect the only way to find out is to ask?
 
 
Papess
14:18 / 03.12.06
Hmm, quite interesting, xk. I think it is just wishful thinking on my part, as it seems the "Temple people" of Malta and Thracians were seemingly very different cultures, to say nothing of a few thousand years of timeline I can't possibly account for. I think the possibility is terribly vague.

Now, those Thracians - Seems it wasn't just me and my own horrors. From Wikipedia: In book 5, Herodotus describes the customs of various Thracian tribes.

The Thracians who live above the Crestonaeans observe the following customs. Each man among them has several wives; and no sooner does a man die than a sharp contest ensues among the wives upon the question which of them all the husband loved most tenderly; the friends of each eagerly plead on her behalf, and she to whom the honour is adjudged, after receiving the praises both of men and women, is slain over the grave by the hand of her next of kin, and then buried with her husband. The others are sorely grieved, for nothing is considered such a disgrace.
The Thracians who do not belong to these tribes have the customs which follow. They sell their children to traders. On their maidens they keep no watch, but leave them altogether free, while on the conduct of their wives they keep a most strict watch. Brides are purchased of their parents for large sums of money. Tattooing among them marks noble birth, and the want of it low birth. To be idle is accounted the most honourable thing, and to be a tiller of the ground the most dishonourable. To live by war and plunder is of all things the most glorious. These are the most remarkable of their customs.
The gods which they worship are but three, Mars, Bacchus, and Dian. Their kings, however, unlike the rest of the citizens, worship Mercury more than any other god, always swearing by his name, and declaring that they are themselves sprung from him.
Their wealthy ones are buried in the following fashion. The body is laid out for three days; and during this time they kill victims of all kinds, and feast upon them, after first bewailing the departed. Then they either burn the body or else bury it in the ground. Lastly, they raise a mound over the grave, and hold games of all sorts, wherein the single combat is awarded the highest prize. Such is the mode of burial among the Thracians.

I saw something resembling the bolded segment, in the passage above, while journeying. I thought it was just my own mind getting carried away with my own fears! I realize that Herodotus is describing a funeral, but if that is the funeral rite, then I am certain what I saw had little to do with me.

Yep, disgust comes to mind.
 
 
Ticker
14:43 / 03.12.06
I'd suggest taking a lot of historical accounts with a grain of salt unless they are independently corroborated as propaganda has always been an issue with outsider accounts.

Especially claims of cannibalism, infantcide, and other common taboos.

Saying nasty things about people you don't want your people to like is pretty common.
 
 
Papess
15:03 / 03.12.06
Yes, I wanted to avoid that kind of hyperbole.

On another note, I never even thought to ask the "priestesses" if they were actually priests.
 
 
Papess
17:39 / 30.12.06
My friend, Zute, a new member to the board, told me about this story of Thracian gold in National Geographic. The full story has a reference to "goddess shin guards". So, the boots might not be totally off.

I am going to take a stab at a theory.

The priestesses were women, but also men who had undergone a rather crude, ritual-style, gender re-assignment ceremony by sacrificing their own genitals. Pain is overcome with drugs and alcohol, as well as ecstatic, orgiastic play. (I wouldn't doubt it if people did die sometimes from such ceremonies. I could just imagine what that would prophesy for the next year. I digress...)

I think the recipient of the ritual, the one sacrificing their parts, is honoured as a priestess of Cotytto. There is probably a prepetory period for those that are the focus of the ceremony (in order to help with the transition) which could establish a hierarchy within Temple of Cotytto. I think they might get mistaken for actual priests when it is the women and even more so, the transexual priestesses that had made of themself an offering, who were given respect and worship. To suffer in order to benefit the community and emulate the Goddess was an honour.

I believe that Cotytto is a Goddess of Transformation and Complete Metamorphosis. Not simply a harbinger of change and cycles, but of a deep, death-like transformation.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
04:03 / 31.12.06
Well, there's a Kotys, who is likely related to Kottyto, who is the consort of Sabazius, possibly, who is a vegetative, vinous, death-and-return deity. The self-emasculation? That's Cybele, primarily, if you believe the accounts. It wouldn't be beyond the bounds of possibility that priest[esse]s of Kotys did likewise, although I'm not sure about documentary proof on that one.

Oh, and Herodotus on picturesque anecdotes of Eastern life is probably best taken with a significant pinch of salt.
 
 
Papess
14:25 / 31.12.06
Thanks Haus, for some clarity. I had concluded Herodotus' findings as mostly his own wishful thinking, reconstructed hearsay, and perhaps a discomfort with the subject matter. I wasn't very comfortable either, and I would like to think I am at least a little more open-minded and fluid than Herodotus was.

I must confess, I was certainly oblivious at first, then uncomfortable myself and with the whole transgender aspect of this deity. It wasn't my prejudices so much, as a lack of comprehension. I will never be able to fully appreciate the experience of someone who is transgendered, because I am not inclined to identify myself in that manner....but enough about me.

Quite honestly and shamefully, I was initially on the right track with big penises (take a close look at the first picture I drew of the Priestess), but I had changed the penises to babies because of the stupid "Big Penis thread". I thought my artwork would be perceived as trolling, or perpetuating that discussion with images of someone who appears to be "female" riding a big penis...or wearing one, or both.


Now, if this is a part of Thracian culture that embraced transgenderism, then Cotytto, Herself, would be coming into Her Own, in our present culture. I think we have the tools to understand with a greater capacity, the subtleties of such transformations, rather than just the vulgar aspects. The point of the Goddess' own disgust really fascinates me. I wonder if it was an afterthought designed to sanitize or indeed, the actual mythos.


And yeah, in case you missed my own sanitizing - Babies=Penises. No pregnant women, just big penises and dildos. No birthing (how ridiculous!) other than the transformation(s) taking place, just penetration with really, really big penises. Now, that made me cringe a bit. I mean, it looked like it hurt a whole lot.

Stop laughing.

So, that is my confession. Somewhere in my twisted head, it made sense at the time. I am surprised no one called me on it.

Really, stop laughing.
 
 
Ticker
14:57 / 03.01.07
mostly I'm grinning, but you know partially it's because your squirming is funny not the reason you're doing it.

Seriously though there is a lot of discomfort when working with some Deities because the relationship presents us with Mysteries that just are not on this side of the taboo line. The sacred transgender and related liminal spaces are laden with heavy duty signifers, they're supposed to knock you for a loop so you develop fresh perspectives of your own. Understanding the experience is transformative.
 
 
Papess
15:17 / 03.01.07
mostly I'm grinning, but you know partially it's because your squirming is funny not the reason you're doing it.

Xk, you sadist! Honestly, if there was going to be an experience where I felt like my balls were cut off, this would be it.

Indeed, I am embarrassed, and I did the switcheroo to avoid embarrassment, which is delightfully ironic. I did opt for something that would resemble the transformative aspect, as giving birth is about as close to dying as I have ever felt, and it transformed me, through a rite and initiation into motherhood. I can relate to trangenderism by exploring my own adolescent boy-like feelings I have around women, but that does not answer the questions about a culture that would worship in this manner. I also wonder if a Goddess be understood through the culture(s) that worship Her, especially in the case of Cotytto, where She seems to have abandoned them.
 
 
Ticker
16:17 / 03.01.07
I also wonder if a Goddess be understood through the culture(s) that worship Her, especially in the case of Cotytto, where She seems to have abandoned them.

WHOA! That's a very intense bit of info to drop! Has She told you that or are you assuming that? Abandoned is a mighty charged word.....

...and really as we can never fully grok how someone else, even a contemp, relates to a Deity the best plan is a direct line of communication. Study is very important but it needs to be balanced out with a living relationship.

Half the experiences we have with the spiritual are really just us bouncing off of ourselves and filtering/sifting our cosmologies.
 
 
Papess
11:24 / 04.01.07
Yes, I guess that was bit strong, "abandoned".

What I am referring to is the disgust that Cotytto has for the acts performed by Her priests/esses. I suppose I perceive some sort of rejection from Cotytto, as it is not custom for most beings to stick around for something that is distasteful to them, even a dog wouldn't. Why would a Goddess?

I kind of have another theory about the Thracian gold that was found, as being perhaps, similar to earth termas. Maybe not in the exact manner of Tibetan Buddhism, but something similar to it.

Study is very important but it needs to be balanced out with a living relationship.

I have never wanted something to study a deity with, so much, ever, and I learned that from my living relationship with Cotytto. Sorry, that was facetious, but true.
 
 
Ticker
13:15 / 04.01.07
What I am referring to is the disgust that Cotytto has for the acts performed by Her priests/esses. I suppose I perceive some sort of rejection from Cotytto, as it is not custom for most beings to stick around for something that is distasteful to them, even a dog wouldn't. Why would a Goddess?


I'd suggest caution when interpreting a God's reaction as we tend to project our own. You're assuming the reaction is disgust/distaste but that's coming through your filters. Unless the Deity has specifically told you They don't want a ritual behavior done in Their name you have to tread carefully. I'd draw your attention to your assumption above that the Deity would reject something because of what you'd expect from other beings, like dogs.

We know other Deities preside over some really complex rituals designed to be revolting and disgusting not because that's the end destination, but because when we are confronted by our taboos and fears some rather interesting psychological and magical transformations take place.
 
 
Papess
13:34 / 04.01.07
You're assuming the reaction is disgust/distaste but that's coming through your filters.

This is not my assumption, xk. This is what I have read - specifically the word "disgust" was used. Maybe it is some else's assumption, but give me something better to go on. Is it someone's assumption or is it truly part of the Thracian mythology of Cotytto?

BTW, I wasn't comparing a Goddess to a dog, but there is a contradiction here if I am to believe that Cotytto was disgusted.
 
 
Ticker
14:41 / 04.01.07
ah I thought you referring to your interactions with exploring the rites directly through visualization not to other people's accounts of the rites....

I guess I'm thinking you've got direct contact with the Deity and are using that as the primary source for your work? No?

Is your primary interest understanding the ancient way of worshipping the Goddess or your own relationship with Her? I understand that you may wish to have your modern actions informed by ancient practices but the issue of cultural response is extremely complex.
 
 
Papess
15:40 / 04.01.07
I guess I'm thinking you've got direct contact with the Deity and are using that as the primary source for your work? No?

I will use anything that I can learn from. Everything is just a little piece of the puzzle, especially in this case. I don't think it would be wise to rely on one source and base all my conclusions on it, most certainly not my own stuff. Although, my own experiences have taught me much about myself, and the part of the psyche that Cotytto embodies. It certainly puts me in contact for dreaming and on the right track for stalking (information) purposes.

Also, since I have been learning about Cotytto, my life has been changing quite drastically, transforming, if you will. It is a very good that I am used to that sort of thing, or I would be out of my mind right now. I am actually amazed how well I am dealing with this situation, like I had anticipated it years ago and put a safety net in, but I would rather not taunt the Goddess with any cockiness...I so did not intend that pun - but it works.

Is your primary interest understanding the ancient way of worshipping the Goddess or your own relationship with Her?

Both. One is no good to me without the other, really.

I understand that you may wish to have your modern actions informed by ancient practices but the issue of cultural response is extremely complex.

Yes! There you have my dilemma. I get this feeling of marrying the old methods to modern experiences, especially transgender experiences of which, I have limited understanding but realize that the knowledge and spiritual experience of Cotytto and transgender deification in Western culture has been absconded. It makes me think of statistics for suicide amongst people who identify as transgendered and I wonder if the need for spiritual connection and identity could have been of help to save their lives. Maybe I am just being sentimental. I am not making claims, that is just how I feel. I can't tell if it would help someone overcome suicide, what with the sometimes cruel and prejudice world we live in, by having proof of their own divinity through Cotytto, when other religions are deeming them abominations.

It is like someone killing your parents and putting you in a foster home with foster parents who hate your guts.

You see, it is very important to me that I do this right, xk. I feel very bad if i have offended anyone with what I am trying, perhaps poorly, to accomplish.
 
 
Ticker
16:38 / 04.01.07
it's a learning curve, driving in the dark, etc etc. You're not offending me and I'm not sure who you think you might be?

I'd advocate an approach where you do not make total statements about the past but rather frame it like "this account says this about these people and their rites" rather than "these people and their rites were this". Gives you some fairly important room for new information.

So it's very different to say in this account the Goddess was disgusted versus the Goddess was disgusted.

When we don't have firsthand accounts of people's experiences we're tempted to fill it in for them. The safest thing to do is not to give in to this temptation and to live with the blank spot.

As someone who worships ancient Gods and has only crap folklore accounts taken down after a rival religion starting censoring, I feel your pain. The research I do helps me understand the context of various things and it makes me feel better because there were other humans doing this at one point. However I live everyday knowing I'm not an ancient human living the lifestyle of the ancients and so somethings don't match up. (Note the lack of a herd of tiny black cows in my life.) Going to the places of sacred worship helps as does prayer and ritual, but this is helping to build a living current practice not to recreate that of my neolithic ancestors.

So I encourage you to keep doing your research but not to let it overshadow your living relationship with the Deity. They change and just as it would be weird to hold a lover to the dynamics of a relationship they had with their deceased spouse, it's a bit restrictive to hold a Deity to the dynamics they had with an extinct culture. Sure you get some good information from listening to the stories and hearing about past relationships for patterns but there's more to it than that.

I'd draw your attention to the reactions the relationship is causing in your psyche. Fear of poking around with some heavily charged social issues (penises/babies/transgender/sexual practices, disgust etc). That looks like a whole lot of stuff to figure out how you feel about.

Oh and obviously this all my opinion so you can tell me to fuck right off if you'd like.
 
  
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