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RANT: So damned tired of being the Grown Up in the room

 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
08:25 / 17.11.06
You ever get that feeling? That once, just once, it would be nice if someone else would be the first person to say "actually, I was being unreasonable, and in the interests of everyone here, I'd like to move away from my initial position and put something on the table"?

I'm not talking about anyone on Barbelith, by the way; this is a separate discussion. I've just had a lot of stuff recently where I'm sitting there telling myself that there is absolutely no point in standing up and saying "you are all [unmentionable]. I hope your tiny, flabby [unmentionable] get [unmentionable] by hoardes of screaming, violent, [unmentionable][unmentionable], until they can't [unmentionable] because of the pain in their [unmentionable]. And I hope you can't find a taxi home." Instead, I breathe out, and I say something reasonable and moderate and accomodating, and yes, that absolutely is the right thing to do and it makes life infinitely easier in the long run. Although no one actually says 'thank you'.

But why is it me? Is it simply that I am weak? I back down first rather than forcing someone else to do it? But fundamentally, these are nothing battles. No one will die. No one will be saved. The whole argument is effectively about parking tickets or chocolate frogs. I'd be delighted to go nuts over some major issue, but these are not them. These are not atrocities, they're just church farts.

I just wonder - do you wish that other people would show a bit of nous and beat you to the "let me make this work" punch? 'Cos God knows, I do. I would really like to spend a week where every time there was some dispute, someone else would go "you know, threr faults in both of these positions, so we'll do it your way and see how that goes". Apart from anything else, I'd spend a whole lot less time watching some idiot's crappy idea burn to the ground and fall over, and more time watching mine fly.

But hey. It's life. You have to be reasonable.

GrrrrrRRRR!
 
 
Whisky Priestess
08:48 / 17.11.06
This might help.

Or, alternatively, this.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:42 / 17.11.06
I share your pain, Nick - I too am a saint, a living saint, I tell you, and what do I get in return? Well, there's a sense of moral superiority, which is nice, but it's not enough anymore. Why can't some of the people I disagree with just agree that I am right and they are wrong? They'll thank me when they share my politics! As will you all.
 
 
stabbystabby
10:12 / 17.11.06
Nick, i understand what you're saying - it's not about being perfect, it's about being the only person who ever admits to being wrong. you do reach a point where you start apologising for things that weren't your fault.

all i can suggest is, own up to your own mistakes, don't apologise for anyone else's. if it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. just let it go....

if however, in the process of accepting other people's fallibility, you discover more of your own foibles, well, chalk that up to personal development.
 
 
illmatic
10:21 / 17.11.06
Why can't some of the people I disagree with just agree that I am right and they are wrong?

Because obviously, you never get slightly irked when people disagree with you.
 
 
Spaniel
10:33 / 17.11.06
Well, in my experience many people do refuse to compromise or admit to error, so I have some sympathy for Nick's position. I've spent years in jobs where meetings and committees are a way of life, and frankly if more people brought a little less ego along with them much more would get done.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:37 / 17.11.06
Honestly, that's an illusion, Boboss. If nobody has too much ego, nothing gets done either, because the sheer godawful futility of what is being discussed overwhelms the cock-out desire to get your way in that discussion. It's a lot friendlier, though...
 
 
Spaniel
10:50 / 17.11.06
You see, I think there's a middle ground.
I'm currently working within a rather unusual management structure - a network of semi-autonomous groups, locked into certain contractual obligations, and given lead by a director and a core team (of which I am part) - and so far it's working very well, without any dicks being brandished.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:02 / 17.11.06
Instead, I breathe out, and I say something reasonable and moderate and accomodating, and yes, that absolutely is the right thing to do and it makes life infinitely easier in the long run. Although no one actually says 'thank you'.

It's frustrating, I agree - but I think in a way you're not being thanked because this is a _team effort_. However wrongheaded they may be, everyone is in there with a different idea about what they ought to be doing, and they all thing they are being very kind in not screaming into the faces of the other people around the table that their ideas, and the way that they are expressing them, are cretinous and should lead to pain.

And, yes, in a meeting not based on establishing a consensus, it's likely that ultimately some of the time one's own sensible idea will not be picked up and somebody else's bad idea will be, at least from your point of view, and quite possibly in absolute terms. That personal bias towards one's own ideas skews what appear to be good and bad arguments, but not always fatally - a bad idea is sometimes just a bad idea, but one which is advanced with greater conviction and vehemence. In which case, one has to be more convinced and more vehement, or let that bad idea go ahead and start planning for when it fails, or try to moderate and ameliorate it without triggering another step-up in vehemence and conviction. If the workflow is structured differently - like Boboss' - that can alter the mechanisms.

Have you tried naked meetings?
 
 
Pepsi Max
11:07 / 17.11.06
I have tried organising naked meetings but the strip joint told me that their other patrons found our powerpoint presentations off-putting.
 
 
Spaniel
11:07 / 17.11.06
Have you tried cuddling during meetings?
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
11:09 / 17.11.06
See, now, it just this minute happened again, but with a twist: I was buying some books for a trip I'm taking, and the bookseller came out from behind the desk to find one of them. About half a second later, some Henry-Bendix-looking spunkbubble starts taking her to task because "it's more important to be serving customers than to be out there sorting out the shelves," and making assorted comments apparently implying that a) she's an idiot and b) he's too important for this crap.

Now, my urge at this point is to say "Hey, you Henry-Bendix-looking spunkbubble, that is precisely what she's doing, and I'm the damn customer in question, so why don't you park your abusive mouth and wait your goddam turn," instead of which I begin my response with "excuse me, mate," which works better but doesn't feel as satisfying. The situation calms down, spunkbubble stops giving everyone a hard time, the security guard goes back to polishing his nails, and everything starts to move smoothly again, but my inner territorial mammal/caveman feels a bit pissed on.

Now, the twist here is that the nice lady behind the desk smiled cheerfully at me across the room and observed "I'll just have to do this because this man's making a bit of a fuss," whereupon everyone looked at Henry as if to say "you are a tiny person without a hope in hell of sex, ever". Which was very good.

The point is not that I want people to admit that they're wrong - I don't need confirmation from them to know that; the point is that (probably because I work in that kind of industry) I spend a lot of time in my real life catering to fragile egos of one stripe or another. I can deal with conflict strategically and get the result I want - it's just that even knowing that's what I am achieving, I long for moments of satisfaction where I allow my inner caveman to speak his scatalogical mind.

It's entirely possible this is why my Barbelith interactions are punctuated with short-tempered outbursts - this is broadly a consequence-free environment for me.

Honestly, that's an illusion, Boboss. If nobody has too much ego, nothing gets done either, because the sheer godawful futility of what is being discussed overwhelms the cock-out desire to get your way in that discussion. It's a lot friendlier, though...

You know, the funny thing about this is that I suspect if you gamed it, you would find that a single egotist/furious maniac in that situation might be welcome, if not always allowed to rule the thing, whereas a single apologist in a room full of maniacs is unwelcome, because they're always taking the blame and everyone starts to imagine they're the weakest link. I wonder how it works out in terms of efficacy, though; how often do I get my own way by being meek vs. how often would I achieve it by being spiky, and what are the long-term implications of those choices?
 
 
Disco is My Class War
11:21 / 17.11.06
Wow, Nick, I envy you. You have an Inner Caveman.
 
 
Evil Scientist
11:39 / 17.11.06
Of course if it really is Henry Bendix you'll be sucking vacuum in the near future with your underpants nailed to your head.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
13:14 / 17.11.06
I totally have an Inner Caveman.

His skull is so thick that Bendix could nail Fuji's underpants to my head, with the big old gaseous orgasm machine still in them, and shove me into a vacuum above some godforesaken parallel world where Garth Ennis writes 'Fables' and George W. Bush is a Democrat, and he'd still come back and bite Bendix's nasty bald nose off.

I miss Fuji. Fuji was good. He was always polite, right up until the moment when he tore someone's head off.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
13:16 / 17.11.06
As much I look forward to meeting Nick, I'm not quite sure how I feel about his Inner Caveman.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
13:30 / 17.11.06
You could feed him thin strips of your enemies through the bars of my brain. Where's the bad?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:30 / 17.11.06


Zowie!
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
13:51 / 17.11.06
I tend to think of him in terms of . Note how he looks like a sort of early Ernest Borgnine: .
 
 
Saveloy
14:03 / 17.11.06
That's not an inner caveman, that's an inner GRANDAD!
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
14:17 / 17.11.06
You say that now. You haven't seen him tucking into a bison.
 
 
HCE
14:24 / 17.11.06
Perhaps Bendix was having a lousy day. Perhaps his dog got hit by a truck. Or perhaps he's just sick of being stepped on by his boss. Perhaps he's not psychic and didn't realize that person who was ignoring him had a reason to do so.

Could be any number of reasons for his behavior, beyond "he's childish." Assuming that he behaved as he did because of his character rather than because of his situation is what's called the Fundamental Attribution Error. Learned about it in Psych 101 just the other day.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:33 / 17.11.06
I heart.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:40 / 17.11.06
I reckon that probably you should just let that inner caveman shake it. I mean, what are you really acheiving with this self-repression? You should be riling these people up and making them cry Nick. Make them cry.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
15:07 / 17.11.06
Could be any number of reasons for his behavior

Which is why I didn't tell him he was a spunkbubble and eat his ears in front of him. Because I already know that. What I'm asking is whether you get tired of being sensible - or whether you actually act on that knowledge when you're annoyed.

what are you really acheiving with this self-repression?

Mostly, it's a professional strategy, but I'm no longer sure how valid it is. In the personal sphere, I simply don't see myself as a shouty, rude bastard (my occasional fury on Barbelith notwithstanding). I'd rather be the person the sales assistant lady grins at than the one she doesn't.

It's a very interesting question, though, Ms. Bitch.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
15:32 / 17.11.06
Well I generally find that a balance must be struck, so I only get pissy when the interns don't do the post on time for the fourth day in a row. It takes some kind of repetitive action to make me stop being compromisey.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:41 / 17.11.06
The last line of Nick's post is gonna look soooooo dodgy next time you change your name...
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
15:54 / 17.11.06
Yes! I was releasing my Inner Snotty Caveman. He's the one with the low forehead and the silk dressing gown!

I have many Inner Cavemen! Fear the vasty cavern of my interior spaces! There they roam in grunting communion, awaiting their chance to strike!
 
 
grant
16:59 / 17.11.06
I'd rather be the person the sales assistant lady grins at than the one she doesn't.

[Attenborough voice]
Thus allowing your DNA to pass successfully to the next generation... an evolutionary success!
[/Av]
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
17:01 / 17.11.06
I have many Inner Cavemen! Fear the vasty cavern of my interior spaces! There they roam in grunting communion, awaiting their chance to strike!

Oddly, this explains a lot of what I think Nick must be like.
 
 
stabbystabby
19:31 / 17.11.06
for some reason i'm now thinking of the aliens living in the train station locker in Men in Black - hundreds of miniature cavemen, living inside Nick.

All hail K! All hail K!
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
19:40 / 17.11.06
I went to Catholic school for three years while growing up, and the phrase "grunting communion" brings back a lot of bad memories for me.
 
  
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