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Metro says "Police Say Drug Rape Is A Myth"

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Hydra vs Leviathan

19:13 / 16.11.06

What the fuck. What the fucking fuck...

I dunno what else to say, except that if it wasn't already obvious that the police do not, and do not want to take rape seriously or blame the actual rapist rather than his victim, then this makes it sickeningly so...

What the fuck?

19:48 / 16.11.06

Hm. Where have you seen that the 'Police say that drug rape is a myth', outside of the quite small Metro article that you have linked to (where it was used as a Headline and the word myth wasn't mentioned at all during the report).

From what i can see from the link is that the police said that it wanted to 'put the incidence of Rohypnol date-rape 'into context'... Quite a long way from saying it was a myth.

It seems that Metro (Daily Mail etc) have used the Myth thing not the Police. Not having a go about the idea of the thread but i think you should try to clarify where the bombastic rhetoric comes from.

19:50 / 16.11.06

Well, they've claimed that the use of drugs like Rohypnol is less wide-spread than previously thought. The assumption that alcohol cannot play an equivalent role to such drugs in sexual assault seems to be coming from sections of the media and (no offence) threads with titles like this.

19:50 / 16.11.06

you know, some day people will understand that a vulnerable human of any age is not an acceptable outlet for unacceptable behavior. No matter what caused them to be vulnerable in the first place, gender, race, class, dress, state of consciousness, location, or previous behavior.

Your actions are about you, not them. Being an abuser has nothing to do with the victim and everything to do with being out of control.

20:01 / 16.11.06

Yes i completly agree with you Nighhawk. My point was that we have to be careful not to start with something that is obviously not true. I.E 'The Police say that drug rape is a myth'. They have not said that. They might have implied a lot of things and those thing need to be taken up.

20:05 / 16.11.06

We cross-posted, that was to Natty Ra Jah.

20:16 / 16.11.06

ah, ok.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

21:09 / 16.11.06

Hmm, I read about this in most of the nationals yesterday, and as far as I can tell the police were merely saying that, yes, the use of GHB and Rohypnol is far less common than previously thought. They didn't say anything about date rape itself not existing, they merely said alcohol was the drug involved in the majority of cases.

23:20 / 16.11.06

Plus it may be a good idea to take the idea of 'date rape' out of the context of drugs such as GBH and Rohypnol and back into the realms of vodka and beer etc. As xk has said already.

23:27 / 16.11.06

Actually, reading back, that is not what xk is saying at all.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

00:15 / 17.11.06

Indeed, the co-author of the ACPO report, Detective Supt Dave Gee, also said "the most common method of spiking drinks is alcohol".

00:31 / 17.11.06

Well yes, the idea that 'date rape' is quite a new thing that is tied to certain (hard to get hold of) drugs, is really apalling. As is the word 'date' which implies some sort of romantic tryst from the start. Really quite horrid terminology.

All Acting Regiment

14:33 / 17.11.06

Well, this was big black headers in several tabloids yesterday. And they they went on to say things like In actual fact, most of these "victims" were etcetera. I think it says a lot about the nature of our press that it takes a good ten miutes of close reading these articles to work out what the police actually said.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

14:39 / 17.11.06

Yes, and the same is true of the title of this thread, if I'm reading the articles correctly.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

14:41 / 17.11.06

Although me defending the police feels a bit weird, I have to admit.

00:00 / 18.11.06

I really don't see what the big deal is. If anything, this is a positive step. The whole Rohypnol thing always seemed like the myth of strangers putting razor blades in Halloween candy: a widely-spread horror story of dubious accuracy which seemed designed to spread paranoia about social interactions in a public setting.

16:18 / 18.11.06

In a local bar they have a vending machine that sells drink tops that prevent someone slipping ruthies into your bottle. Five for a pound.

18:50 / 18.11.06

They reported this on the news, talking about how alcohol is the reason for many women's black-outs. It kind of felt like there was an unsaid, "And so in order not to get raped, women should drink less." at the end. That makes me uncomfortable because it feels like an attempt to shift responsibility, that it's up to a woman to regulate her drinking in order not to get raped. Before it was that women are being drugged and then raped; fault: the person doing the drugging. Now, it's women are drugging themselves with alcohol and getting raped; fault: the woman who drunk the alcohol.

I also think that this whole debate about what 'caused' a person to be raped in the first place clouds the more important issue that when rapes happen people who are raped are really badly represented in the legal system, let down at every turn, and many rapists are never punished.

19:42 / 18.11.06

i agree.

i'm still waiting for a campaign that tells people to make sure their friends arent out raping people, and i see a fair few telling people to make sure their friends arent putting themselves at risk.

i'm not sure what to say beyond that.

21:31 / 19.11.06

Before it was that women are being drugged and then raped; fault: the person doing the drugging.

But was that ever true? Did that actually happen on any regular basis, and did most people ever actually believe that was a real issue? In my experience, only the exceptionally paranoid have ever treated that sort of thing as much of anything more than an urban legend or bad TV show plot.

Now, it's women are drugging themselves with alcohol and getting raped; fault: the woman who drunk the alcohol.

I think it's unfortunate that that's the spin that people are putting on it. Obviously, no matter how much someone's had to drink, it's still 100% the rapist's fault for raping them.

However, I don't think continuing to perpetuate imaginary boogeyman stories about people putting roofies in drinks is an appropriate solution to that problem.

08:33 / 20.11.06

Being drugged has happened to someone I know and it's not like I'm some big party animal with loads of going-outy friends. Of course there is media hysteria about it, but also it does actually happen.

Jawsus-son Starship

12:39 / 20.11.06

i'm still waiting for a campaign that tells people to make sure their friends arent out raping people, and i see a fair few telling people to make sure their friends arent putting themselves at risk.

I can't see why it's a problem to warn women that there are rapists in the world, and to not make it easier for them? I mean, if we understand that rapists exist, then we must also be aware that being an easy target isn't a great idea - like not having you're mobile on display at all times near tubestations, which is the advertising I see most often. The police arn't saying "do you know any thieves, quick shop 'em" because they perhaps understand that precautionary measures are more successful?

I don't personally think the police are trying to make rape the victims fault. Hwoever, I think they still have a long way to go in there investigations. The conviction rate on rapists is terribly poor, isn't it? Something like 5.3%?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

13:04 / 20.11.06

Lula and Mathlete- see, the cops aren't saying it doesn't happen. Just that GHB and Rohypnol are used a lot less frequently than previously thought. They're not denying it, they're not saying "hah! it was an urban myth all along", they're not even denying that the instances of people being spiked are uncommon. They're just saying these drugs aren't as widely used as the News Of The World et al would have had us believe.

Though yes, having read some of the post-statement articles and fallout in the papers, some people are spinning this in some very unpleasant ways. But I don't think that is what the report is actually saying.

14:33 / 20.11.06

I can't see why it's a problem to warn women that there are rapists in the world....The police arn't saying "do you know any thieves, quick shop 'em"

i'm not sure you understood what i was saying.
i dont think warning people of the dangers of modern living is a bad thing. awareness of risk is a big factor in avoiding it, clearly.

my point is that i have not seen a campaign that asks people to watch their friends arent rapists.
as for campaigns looking for people to look out for other sorts of criminals, google found me this one - Too Much Bling Give Us a Ring - on the crimestoppers website.

"If you suspect someone near you is profiting from the proceeds of crime, call the police and help us to hit them where it hurts - in their wallets."

jentacular dreams

16:40 / 20.11.06

At the same time you don't see adverts saying 'check your chums haven't been on any murdering sprees lately'. The assumption is that people will either report crimes of this level if they find out about them, or that if they won't, an advert isn't going to change their mind. After all, if adverts are so successful wouldn't there be a few more directed at the perpotrators of serious crimes - at the moment they are mostly directed at things which *some* see as borderline permissable: driving while 'tipsy', breach of copyright etc. And those that are targeted at the purpotrators tend (drink-driving aside) to emphasise the legal consequences of the crime, on the belief that 30 seconds or a poster probably isn't enough time to impart a life changing moral message.

18:10 / 20.11.06

you don't see adverts saying 'check your chums haven't been on any murdering sprees lately'

sure, but how many "mind you dont get murdered" adverts have you seen? you do however see "reduce your risk of rape" ads. i'm after a balance.
explicit blaming of the perpetrator without any caveat regarding the victim's behaviour would be nice, and a campaign that sought to make it harder for a rapist to hide in the general population would be great.
why not a poster with some advice on how to spot the possibility? i've certainly seen a "top ten ways to be safer", how about a "top ten signs your mate may be up to no good"?

The assumption is that people will either report crimes of this level if they find out about them, or that if they won't, an advert isn't going to change their mind.

that is certainly an interesting way of looking at it. where did you hear that? is that an assumption made by the police?

at the moment [advertisments] are mostly directed at things which *some* see as borderline permissable: driving while 'tipsy', breach of copyright etc.

these are also crimes that occcur more often than murder, and in the case of drunk driving, cost more lives.
the copyright adverts are, i think you will find, largely sponsored by the organisations and companies with something to lose through unchecked piracy.

30 seconds or a poster probably isn't enough time to impart a life changing moral message.

i'm not so sure.
did you see any of the recent minicab warning adverts from the met and the office of the mayor of london?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

19:19 / 20.11.06

Hang on, there WAS a series of "don't have sex with women who are too drunk to give consent" ads in pub toilets. I'm pretty sure it's still ongoing. Maybe it's just in London.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

19:22 / 20.11.06

I seem to remember a whole series of them.

Story here.

Whether they're any good or not is another story...

13:52 / 27.11.06

How succesful would a "this is rape" advert be. I've had friends who sexually assaulted but because of being drunk/not saying no/not being penetrated etc haven't reported. And I know guys who do things I would class as assault but they really don't. Stuff like feeling up a woman too drunk to walk, or going after girls who are really too far gone to think.

Would a simple list of activities followed by "this is rape" be a better idea to get out? There does seem to be this general idea (maybe it's just the circles I move in, I don't know) that rape isn't rape unless you where screaming "nooo" at the top of your voice whilst dressed like the archetypal librarian.

05:32 / 28.11.06

People shouldn't go round raping drugs. Or raping anything or anyone else really.

Jawsus-son Starship

18:33 / 08.12.06

ITV currently have a brass eye special on rape on. It's a joke. Any moment Chris Morris is gonna pop up and ask about "Good Rape/Bad Rape" - As far as these morons on ITV know, if you sleep with an unconcious girl you might be "a little bit guilty" of rape. And while 14/15 girls think that some guy defo raped some girl, only two would convict. Great. People are idiots. Well, 18-21 year olds are idiots.

17:01 / 02.01.07

This is totally anecdotal, and third-hand at that, but my best friend's sister is a police officer in London. He told me that when she was in the Family Protection Unit, where she worked for several years, the officers were all told that the vast majority of people reporting rape are lying. This is sadly borne out by the treatment some of my friends have received when reporting rape or sexual assault to the police. I'm guessing there's a muddling of cause and effect here: "Ninety-something percent of reported rapes are dropped by the police, therefore ninety-something percent of people reporting rape are lying" rather than "rape is usually impossible to prove and thus dropped for lack of evidence". The disproportionate focus by the media on drug-rape and stranger-rape, both of which are in the minority of sexual attacks (you're far more likely to be raped by a partner or relative), reflect an implication that the victim is to blame unless drugged unconscious by a stranger, that otherwise it isn't really rape.

15:58 / 14.11.07

This makes my blood boil. Have already heard people claim that most women must be making up rape and attempted rape because most convictions fail. Anything to divert attention from failings within the legal system.

I was attacked by someone who had pretended to be unable to get home, to whom I had given a room for the night. Once he had persuaded me not to press charges he boasted that "having a reputation that you'd never do anything bad can be useful in helping you to get away with things".

03:26 / 15.11.07

That is awful Peach Pie! It shouldn't be any surprise that your attacker, who had no concern for you in the first place and manipulated you to get what they wanted, was an ungrateful asshole to the end.

I hope for your sake you don't have to deal with them anymore.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

14:41 / 18.11.07

I shit you not, there was a letter in the Daily Express from some fucker seriously saying he hoped new proposals wouldn't lead to a rise in rape convictions "for reasons of political correctness". I wanted to reach through the page and stuff bees up his nose.

(Incidentally, now this thread's back does anyone think we should amend the title? I'm not usually the most ardent defender of the police, but that's not really what he said, is it?)

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