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The basic equipment for creating digital movies

16:40 / 14.11.06

Please help, am trying to plan an 'enterprise' project for the secondary school i work in and am looking at setting up the facilities for the students to create their own digital films.

The budget is tight so i'm looking for advice on:

1) what is the basic equipment required

2) whats the best editing software to use - we need something the kids can easily pick-up and work with without too much cost.

3) any other tips/websites, etc

17:12 / 14.11.06

Also, is there any software/methods of editing video footage from mobile phones

21:07 / 14.11.06

Seems like either Final Cut or one of the things that comes naturally on Macs (iMovie?) might be the easiest. I don't know about cheapest.

If they already have Macs, than either of those.

You'll probably also need storage -- this might be a bigger issue than software. Firewire external drives, I think. But video with sound eats up gigs and gigs of memory easily.

22:46 / 14.11.06

Macs be a reasonably-priced solution for a school as they offer some deals for educators in the US. I'm not sure how the program works if you're outside of the US.

How many students would need to be working at any given time and what, if anything, do you have already? You'll need a Mac for FileMaker or iMovie. If you have PCs, which tend to be cheaper than Macs, you can use Premiere. I know there's an entry-level version of Premiere (Premiere Elements) for about $70 or so for the education version.

There are loads of digital camcorders that shoot on miniDV. You can pick up a perfectly serviceable Sony or Canon for a few hundred dollars.

Don't forget that video eats up storage quickly. An external hard drive is an inexpensive solution and should work for any platform.

23:04 / 14.11.06

my girlfriend teaches digital filmmaking in a few remote Indigenous communities, and they use:

pdx10p cameras, though any MiniDV camera will do. try to find one with a headphone jack and a mic jack. DON'T use DVD cameras.

also, a good handheld mic - sony does some good entry level mics for around $100. you will also need a tripod.

in terms of software - imovie is easy but not a particularly good program, the interface is different to every other editing program out there so your students will have to relearn everything if they move up to a different program. Final Cut (Mac) and Adobe Premiere (PC) are both good and around the same level of complexity, but for a good editor that kids can use i'd go for Sony Vegas. That's what my girlfriend uses when teaching - it's powerful and scalable, but user friendly and intuitive. It's more expensive than imovie, but when you factor in the relative costs of pc vs mac hardware, the price will come out about the same.

23:05 / 14.11.06

Apple offer education pricing everywhere, i believe. they certainly offer it here in Oz.

23:11 / 14.11.06

you can edit footage from mobile phones, but often different phones have different file formats and codecs, so you may spend a lot of time chasing down appropriate software for each phone. the quality is usually poor too.

07:40 / 15.11.06

1) what is the basic equipment required

mini DV camera will do (the higher end DV cams, consumer level - near professional - are the Canon X1 I think it's called, and a sony one which I can't remember at the moment, but mini-dv is fine at this level. Sound, well, it's down to you how important you think this is - you can create sound tracks from libraries or basic recording of effects, Dialogue recording makes things a lot more costly and difficult - I could go on all day about professional sound equipment, but it is costly, very costly, and may be better off trying to encourage soundscaping rather than sound recording. If you are mixing sounds sources try to keep the sample rates the same - most dv cams will offer 48khz, but cd's are at 41khz or there abouts, which can cause problems.

2) whats the best editing software to use - we need something the kids can easily pick-up and work with without too much cost.

Final cut express is quick and easy to pick up.

3) any other tips/websites, etc

Get them out filming and practising as much as possible - especially with mini dv, a very cheap format to practice on.

08:30 / 15.11.06

also, Avid has a free DV editor you can use as well, it's not bad.

do NOT buy a second hand XL1, they do not age well.

15:45 / 16.11.06

I'd reccomend Final Cut for the editing, I ran a video workshop for kids the same age and they were able to pick it up fairly quickly. And you don't even need an external mic, on a decent DV camera, the built-in mic will be fine for basic sound functions. Certainly a boom mic wouldn't hurt, and would make another job, but it's not essential.

In terms of camera, a cheap, but high quality model is anything in the Sony PD series, the PD-150 is getting up there, so you might be able to get a good deal on a used one. And another tip is to shoot in widescreen, it gives it a more professional, film like feel.

17:06 / 16.11.06

I have issues with Finalcut, but those appear to be personal. "Dropped Frames", indeed.

On the subject of sub-$99 microphones, can anyone recommend one (or two) in particular? I'm looking to improve the sound I get at the moment and I think that would be the first step - apart from that I'm working with digital dictaphones, but that's proving taxing...

06:36 / 17.11.06

dropped frames sounds like a harddrive problem to me. you need at least a 5400 rpm drive, preferably 7200rpm with a big cache.

for the mics, the sony one here or a second hand sm58 are what i'd recommend. what are you using them for?

06:40 / 17.11.06

I'd second an SM58 - very nice sounding mic.

We're The Great Old Ones Now

08:37 / 17.11.06

Tip: you local authority may have a film office or officer. Some can be very helpful, many are bewildered. It's worth doing some research so you can (if necessary) tell them what they can/have to do for you, but if you're lucky, they'll tell you, and that can be great. New York is a very film-friendly city; if you inform the film office that you're filming, they give you a policeman and a parking space. London isn't like that, because competence is split between boroughs, but it's getting better. Crewe I've never tried - but you could get good results with a little polite persistence.

18:48 / 17.11.06

Thank you all for your recommendations!

I'm taking my first faltering steps into making short films at the moment. I think it's possible, as is said here, that finalcut just doesn't like my computer, which is irritating but not fatal.

It means I'm learning all sorts of random tricks with iMovie, though, whether I want to or not. I have a tendency to find tricksy and random things to do with programs like that, and this is no exception.

I'm after a microphone because the sound I'm getting on my Minidv camera is really, really hooky. It's not fatally bad, but good sound would increase the production by a factor of something like 4x (by my precise calculations).

The next question I have to humbly offer up, however, is what would be best to put the microphone into for roving sound recording? My current consideration is a Minidisc recorder, having seen a reporter from BBC 6 do the same. But I'm really really seeking knowledge here. So, thanks, thanks, thanks in advance, and I hope I'm not missing something cardinal...

19:26 / 17.11.06

what are you recording for, radio or tv? if you already have a miniDV camera, you already have a top notch sound recorder, much better than a MiniDisc recorder. MD's are convenient and portable, but miniDV have a much higher quality.

what model camera do you have?

20:38 / 17.11.06

I currently have a Panasonic NV-GS17 Mini-DV camera.

It works really well and does what I want it to - but I'm concerned with sound in general rather than problems with sound that this brings, because I agree that the Minidv sound is very good - it's just problematic when it comes to exterior recording, because wind noise is either very very unnoticeable or very very very problematic.

Please accept my apologies, also, if I have derailed this thread from it's original intention - I have come to realise that just turning up and asking for help in a thread like this is a little selfish. I could start a further thread if that would make things better - or is it ok to lump in advice and questions such as these along with the current thread?

16:26 / 18.11.06

Feverfew - don't ***** as discussing around the basic needs of the thread is still helpful. Thanks folks for all the info so far.

Can i now move the discussion along and ask if anyone can recognise any good web-site/boards with help for a beginner like me.

16:28 / 18.11.06

dont known what happened there but the word '*****' appeared as '*****'.

17:48 / 18.11.06

Which word is it you are trying to write? Is it appearing as ***** everytime you write it? If so, that is bonkers weird and I have no idea why it is happening.

19:33 / 18.11.06

Yes this really is bonkers wierd.

19:36 / 18.11.06

Probably the evil MODS censoring you - or more likely some sort of family protection filter on your browser?

19:50 / 18.11.06

lets try this again - *****

19:51 / 18.11.06

This is freaking me out. Lets try capitals - *****

19:54 / 18.11.06

Right lets change the word ***** to apologise.

If this works can one of the moderators please clean up the thread

19:56 / 18.11.06

I'm not going to clean up the thead yet, because I'm going to take this over to policy and so I need to link to it. I think we need to find out what the jimmining hell is going on with not being able to type out certain words on Barbelith.

So very weird indeed.

20:05 / 18.11.06

Bear, it can't be family protection browsing can it if we also get the ***** version? Opps! can you please try typing it out phonetically?

20:10 / 18.11.06

I have started a thread about this in policy, to avoid any more threadrot. Please direct any answers on this freaky glitch bonanza over there.

23:01 / 18.11.06

websites:

http://dv.com
good features about digital video making

http://creativecow.net
all sorts of forums and podcasts for video making, editing and compositing

http://dvinfo.net/pages/intro.php
good info about DV

http://adamwilt.com
great explanations of highly technical issues. learn about inter and intra frame compression, aspect ratios and mpeg artefacting.

http://dvshop.ca/dvcafe/dv/beginners.html
good list of sources for DV work.

13:44 / 19.11.06

I will try not to ***** but it's quite hard to do.

(Sorry, couldn't resist. Dumb sense of humour in action.)

Thanks for the Website recommendations, also! I will come back with updates when all is more settled.

14:51 / 19.11.06

I have to say - and this is going to sound a bit odd coming from a confirmed Bill-basher - that Windows Movie Maker is not actually the worst program in the world at all. On Windows I think it beats all of the free alternatives. I spent some time when I was on a PC editing machinima, and in the end I was quite happy with WMM; if you just want titles, subtitles, transitions, cuts and splices and to tinker with the soundtrack, it's fine. It'll only export as WMV or raw DV, which is not ideal at all, and it has inexplicable bugs which make it crash for no good reason, say when adding an MP3 as a soundtrack, but it does the job.

iMovie is better and pro packages better still but for getting a feel for things, I don't see that WMM is a bad start at all even if it feels like a beta product at times.