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Odin

 
  

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Devil's Avocado
21:36 / 23.11.06
Hmm - Odin the "bad-guy". Lets not forget his oath-breaking was all in context of trickery.

It reminds me of the famous Churchill decision to let Coventry get bombed. The hanged man. The far-sight, responsibility and Will to sacrifice for what you believe to be the greater good. (Now I think of it, ironic that it was over a cracked form of coded communication) .

I like to see Odins ascent as the rise of the magician gathering power, knowledge, and understanding untill he was at a point to see beyond - and therefore above - the level of ethics, justice or point of view reprensentede by Tyr.

I ask Odin for the strength to have bigger balls, to take the overview, to help me see and make the hard choices necessary to be the best me I can.

..and for other stuff, like helping my mercuiral performances at job interviews this week.

.. and for a ride on his horse...
 
 
EmberLeo
00:47 / 24.11.06
I don't know. After a while at the business end, "Above the law, beyond ethics" sounds like more of a cop-out than a reason.

--Ember--
 
 
Devil's Avocado
10:46 / 24.11.06
"Above the law, beyond ethics" sounds like more of a cop-out than a reason

Um, not sure what part of the Churchill anecdote is a cop-out. This is a perfect example of thinking and acting above/beyond conventional morals/ethics.

Subsequent points in my post illustrate how I interpret that - plus my theorizing about Odin's ascent - and apply it at the 'business-end' (if I'm correctly interpreting your phrase).

Can you carlify what you wanted from my post? A reason Odin overtook Tyr as Sky-Father couched in business-end terms?
 
 
EmberLeo
20:24 / 24.11.06
Ah. Sorry. So first off, I meant "business end" as the recieving end of the tricks, not the "I have a hard decision to make" end.

Second of all, I didn't mean the Coventry decision. That's a good example.

My point was that it's all too easy for people to get wrapped up into the idea that it's somehow wise to make a blanket statement that the ends justify the means.

No. If you have the greater wisdom to see the big picture, then you might know when the ends justify the means.

But I'm not sure it's all at clear within the Lore that Odin's trickery is justified, considering how often it's for the sake of acquiring shinies for His own people no matter how much it screws over and angers those who are not His own people. It tends to make them more inclined to hate His people, and create more wars in the future, etc. etc.

The thing is, the Lore is written from the perspective that a huge all-out war with the Jotuns is inevitable. From that perspective, sure whatever you can do to weaken Them and help Us is probably a good idea.

But how much of that is a self-fulfilling prophecy? How much of the war is inevitable because the nature of the Aesir, as ruled by Odin, to take what They want or need, and break whatever oaths to outsiders They see fit is exactly why that is inevitable.

From that perspective, I don't know that it's greater wisdom and farsight that Tyr somehow lacks that puts Odin above Him. I think it's a willingness to stoop lower that lets Odin undermine Him.

But then Tyr has pretty much told me point blank that I'm too much of a privelaged idealist to belong to Him, and Odin, though He's said repeatedly He's quite fond of me, obviously thinks I'm naive.

*shrugs*

This is something I hate about the world - that a person who doesn't care what happens to "other" will always have an advantage over a person who does care. The latter is limited not only by what they can't do, but by what they won't do.

--Ember--
 
 
Unconditional Love
06:33 / 25.11.06
Entities of war and death like to create those things, as much as entities of disease and pestilence like to create those things, keeps the doctors and peace protesters in work, one creates the other and so on and so forth, keeps the cycle going round and round on this merry planet. war mongers need peace protesters as a measuring point just as peace protesters need war mongers to measure there own worth, there both sorry deluded idiots in my book. There are no quick answers, just age old cycles that all lead in one direction.
 
 
Unconditional Love
15:04 / 25.11.06
Odin kind of reminds me of some other deities that embody fluidity in identity and characteristics, shapeshifting from death dealer to healer from trickster to stern truth giver. Hes not as black and white as modern fiction would paint him or some pagan authors, he embodies character paradoxes like most tricksters, being able to see all sides of a circumstance and falling upon what suits his purposes. conventinal moralistic values and ethics dont fall into the remit of a shapeshifter fixed value structure simply cant shift shape very easily, its not a matter of not holding them, but understanding that there are many different systems of values and which are appropiate for a given circumstance. Do you fart more silently around your grandparents?
 
 
charrellz
12:19 / 20.04.07
*Bump*

This question is a bit specific for this thread, but I figured it should go here anyway. I'm helping a friend in planning out some things, and I was wondering if anyone knows Odin's position on psilocybin as entheogen. I'm not all that well-versed on Odin, and the friend can't seem to find any relevant bits in his research. Not specifically advocating psilocybin is OK; we just want to make sure he wouldn't be particularly pissed off by it. Any help will be appreciated.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:31 / 20.04.07
I read all forms of intoxicant, especially entheogens, as belonging to the Old Man. Everything from shrooms to a bag of glue to a horn of mead.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:56 / 20.04.07
Anyhows, there's a fair bit of evidence that His people used to take fly agaric back in the day.
 
 
charrellz
18:28 / 20.04.07
Thanks, Mordant. You never fail to be helpful and informative.
 
 
EmberLeo
21:17 / 20.04.07
The "God of Ecstacy" (as I often hear Him called) definitely doesn't have issues with conciousness-altering substances.

--Ember--
 
 
Madman in the ruins.
09:38 / 07.07.08
Hi its been a while

Right My relationship with the Old Man has changed since my Foolhardy evocation experience.
He's still there, like a relative in the background, sometimes you only communicate with them on special occasions sometimes on a weekly/dialy basis. Thats where my relationship is with Him at the moment. (though I feel at the moment that Odin is having a bit of time to himself, and not being as active as he has been in recent years. Gathering his strengh maybe?)

Odin has given/gifed me with certain tools and is expcting me to work with them myself.
I took up the Tarot agin recently and it seemed to click into place very quicly. Funnly enough My Raider White Deck rather than my Tarot of Northen Shadows (Which is a bit of artitistic extravagance rather than a working tool).

There are toher tools I a using, not saying much at the moment about that tho.
 
 
LykeX
09:46 / 07.07.08
That would be this one.
 
 
mercurialblonde
18:33 / 08.07.08
I'm glad to finally be able to post in this thread. I've been working with Odin for a few months now. When I first started he would actually visually make himself known. Now he generally just likes to let me know he's watching, by strategically placed Ravens, that seem to show up whenever I think maybe he's stopped paying attention. Plus the thing I was working with him for, was to increase my understanding and usage of magic, and he's definitely done that. The growth I've had magically in the past three months has been pretty incredible. The old man has me tied down to a few weekly rituals, which keep me progressing forwards.

He's not an easy god to work with, and I have other gods who have a much greater affinity for me, but for what I need, there's none better right now. I don't know what our relationship will eventually end up at, because I don't have the sense that he wants me long long term, and so when I'm ready, I will probably transition over to some gods that enjoy my company a bit more, while continuing to give him his tribute.

The things he's been helping me in specifically are runes and tarot. Though the tarot I'm also working in conjunction with Hecate. But one seems to influence the other, and my studies on both seem to increase my understanding of other magical concepts.

Here's the link with one of my first encounters with the old man, you might note the conclusion of that blog was that I should join Barbelith, because of this thread, which I originally quoted.

FULL CIRCLE!!!
 
 
kiafi
00:31 / 11.07.08
Wow, some of the stuff in this thread is eerily connected with an experience I had a few days ago, so I took the time while I'm stuck at my slave job to write up the whole event, I apologize for the length.

I met a guy years ago in Hollywood who epitomized my current perception of Odin-

Immediately after meeting him and shaking his hand (strong handshake,) he went over to the freezer and promptly chugged an entire handle of vodka without taking a breath. I then noticed that he had a Valknut tattooed on the base of his neck. The guy was a chemical wreck; he lived in Tijuana and flew up to LA a few times a week for his apparently lucrative job doing god knows what. He was a huge fan of heroin and he was often incoherant, I saw him passed out on floors a lot.

That being said, he was easily one of the most well spoken, profound, novel, and powerful magicians that I have ever met. His impression was immediate and in depth- though also teetering on the edge of terrifying. He eventually ended up having a son named Wolfgang with his Mexican girlfriend and then promptly died of a heroin overdose.

In a lot of ways, this seems to parallel a lot of what I seem to experience in regard to Odin. The substance abuse, the chutzpah, the impressive and sometimes reckless courage, and the total dismissal of death as an undesirable event.

Having said that, I like Odin a lot but I'm not sure I would ever want to move in with the dude. This is definitely shown by an experience I had on independence day a few days ago.

I've been working with the runes for a while, and I had a recurring symbol reappearing in my autonomic drawing and rune scrying; a bound Thurisaz and Ansuz rune surrounded by an octagon with each side branching out as an outwardly expressed Pertho- each end of the Pertho runes connected to look like triangular spines. It gave me the impression of a primal spark, the interplay of order and chaos as the root of all cosmic birth and expression. On the solstice I felt the need to do something special in my experience of this concept, so I took two different tabs of acid from two different batches- one slightly dirty, which I inscribed with Thurisaz, and one clean, on which I inscribed an Ansuz. I had kept these in my freezer for a special (and it also needed to be spontaneous) event, which turned out to be when my roommate showed up already tripping and asking me to join him to go see the fireworks with a bunch of friends.

This night it was very apparent to me that Odin was watching me. Lots of weird synchronicity and winks from the universe abound. I can't stand being around lots of people when tripping but I wanted to face my fear and just let go. I almost turned back a few times with people being drunk and rowdy and loud and obnoxious but I swallowed my nomadic elitism and went with the flow. After a number of obstacles preventing me from making it to the fireworks I got there just in time, and I was surrounded by lights, sounds, smells of explosions and fire and legions of youth on a plethora of alcohols, smokes, and entheogens. I was standing on a rickety bridge with tangled metal and water below me and also randomly huge schools of ducks walking around and quacking at me. Helicopters and military presence everywhere.

Then, I went into a dream, a TERRIFYING dream where amongst other things I imagined that someone had died during the fireworks due to some reason or another, and it had sparked off a gang conflict. Then the military got involved and they were beginning to cordon off the area, and shooting civilians. Riots started and I began to think that if I went the wrong way I could get stranded on the wrong side of the river and trapped with a huge riot. I don't remember all of the specifics of how the drama evolved but it basically became apparent that some event had happened with a helicopter crashing and the military overreacting and us all being present at some huge historical event that basically spelled the death of freedom in America. (Does this sound way too heavy and epic to you? I am 100% in agreement.) Somehow this then changed to everyone blaming all of this on me, and directing their anger and judgment towards me, for no particular reason that I can remember. Voices in my head from my friends calling in concern changed to mockery and disgusted comments.

It was suddenly apparent that everyone was reading my thoughts and they communally decided that I 'just -had- to die'. I can't really describe this feeling, it was very specific and weird and I knew that with every terrible thought I had that it would be visited upon me, i.e. I would think of me burning to death- oops, that means I'm gonna get burned to death. This led to me thinking of every horrible thing imaginable, thus sealing every thought into my fate. I then realized that everyone was reacting to my thoughts of fear and negativity, so I tried to one-up the situation and put a big smile on my face and act positive and lead a good example, but then I would just feel a big 'NOPE! Still gonna die! You can do whatever you want or act however you want but you have to die, you just HAVE to die.' It went beyond death, my memory, my legacy, my soul and dreams, it would all be annihilated beyond recognition, and for no particular reason. No cause, no purpose, it just had to be. My family, my friends, they all hated me so deeply that I might as well have been dead. I declared out; 'well then I'm as good as dead already, just fucking finish it now.' -Which was met with uproarious laughter at my pathetic attempt to be noble or avoiding of my torture. This just went on and got worse and worse until I was totally immersed in it. I heard the voicemail ring of my phone- a nostalgic tune from an old SNES game and I was met with more laughter at my weakness and childishness for attaching myself to such a thing. All I could hear was this song (The music from Magicant, from the game Earthbound) while I was awash in judgement, terror and ridicule.

And then? Surprise! It was all just a joke! Everything is just fine. But man, wouldn't that have sucked? Hey, now that you have a new lease on life how about you go try a little harder huh buddy? It was then made apparent that I had to avoid my thoughts and actions with negative roots, in the astral/conceptual/whatever realm, so that when I came back to the waking world they wouldn't have a chance to turn into very real, very bad things, like actual gang wars and murder and other undesirables. Everything was suddenly A-OK and I was filled with incredible euphoria.

I came to, sitting up and attentive, in a courtyard of some residential area around a mile away. When I spaced out in my dream a long amount of time had passed- probably 3 or 4 hours, and I had apparently traveled a very long distance with no memory. I don't remember the fireworks ending or even how or when reality switched to crazy-yahoo dream mode. I had somehow gotten separated from all of my friends after the fireworks and I was just sitting on some random doorstep blocks and blocks away from where I was watching things originally. My cellphone was broken, I still managed to have my wallet and keys, but I was COVERED in injuries. I was coated all over in deep scratches, cuts, and bruises, none of which I remember the origin of. I realized that my hands were covered in blood and dirt and I had a big bump on my forehead.(I hope the blood on my hands was from that.) Even my throat had a deep, dark bruise on it. The bump was pretty bad and I probably had a concussion. Worst of all, my glasses were missing. So now I'm stuck in some courtyard, no idea where I am, still tripping a little, and I can't see shit, looking like I went to war with a street gang. Large towering buildings are of no navigational significance as they appear to be giant blobs of light without my glasses. I somehow manage to gather my thoughts and with great trial and error I walked the long walk home alone.

In the aftermath, my friends have no idea where the fuck I went, I apparently was there til the end of the fireworks and then just disappeared. Everyone tried calling my cellphone to no avail. I will note for the record that nothing even close to this has ever, ever happened to me while tripping. This was a whole other level of mindfuckery. I've blacked out into dream states on acid before but I have definitely never changed location or injured myself or lost shit- I'm usually just blissed out on my bed or the grass or something. Weirdest of all, I don't feel the least bit negative about any of it, afterward I was filled with love for myself, my friends and the possibilities of my future before me. For days afterward I could barely move without extreme aching pain and only since Tuesday have I felt back to normal. My injuries were also rife with symbolism- bruise on the throat = spear through the throat? The blindness of losing my glasses = losing an eye to the well of mimir? It all seems eerily fitting, if you can call it that.

Since this event, my life has been amazing, lots of great things have happened and I still feel like I'm at top of the world. I met a great Taiji teacher and I've come into lots of money and women for no particular effort or action of mine.

Whether or not I choose to label this as being the work of Odin or just me being a fucking lucky moron that's taking things way too literally, I feel like I can still hear him laughing at me. All in all I would say his intentions are noble and pure given the outcome, and that makes him cool with me.

So in review, I'll have a beer with the guy every once in a while when I'm daring, and I'll treat him with great reverence and respect (and fear,) but I am not letting that fucker drink all my vodka so he can cut me up and break my shit and pass out on my couch.
 
 
darth daddy
01:08 / 11.07.08
kaifi...god I loved your post....Almost as mutch as I love Vodka....LSD has nothing to do with ODIN... More of a Hermes thing....
 
  

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