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Underground > Laboratory >

The Venus Project

16:15 / 15.01.02

Is this the future?

note: some of those images are photos.

Artificial Islands. University cities.
Abolition of money.

They're trying to make it happen now.

quote:If our project appeals to a sufficient number of people and enough funds are made available, it will be directed toward the building of the first university city. The size and complexity of the city would depend on the funds available. This first experimental city would be a major planning, research, and development center where new technologies could be developed. It would also serve as a showplace for these new, clean technologies, operating in a pollution-free environment with built-in processes for recycling waste. Another of its functions would be to serve as a center for the dissemination of information in all areas of the social complex. It could serve as a global networking center, eventually inviting the participation of all nations, individuals, and organizations.

This would not be a private-enterprise venture for a selected few. Rather, it would be an open city for the public. Included in its design proposal is a theme park that could provide an exciting visual presentation of the operations of this new society designed to enhance the lives of all people; it would present to the public a positive, hopeful, attainable vision of the future. In our present culture, there is no comprehensive plan for a sustainable future; therefore the probability of a smooth transition from today's economy to a resource-based economy is highly unlikely. Unfortunately, what is most likely to occur is a breakdown in our current economic system and a reduction in the quality of life for most people. However, such conditions would not necessarily bring about a change for the better.

16:23 / 15.01.02

It just gets better and better:

quote:The Venus Project's Circular City arrangement is comprised of the following:

* The outermost perimeter is utilized for recreational activities such as biking, golfing, hiking and riding, etc.
* A circular waterway for irrigation and filtration surrounds the agricultural belt.
The agricultural belt, with many transparent enclosed buildings, will be used to grow a wide variety of organic plants without the use of pesticides.
* Areas are set aside for renewable clean sources of energy using wind generators, solar, heat concentrating systems, geo thermal, photovoltaic and others.
* The residential units, apartments and the design centers are beautifully landscaped in natural surroundings, adjacent to dining and other amenities.
* The buildings surrounding the central dome provide the community with centers for cultural activities such as the arts, theater, exhibitions, concerts, and various forms of entertainment.
* The central dome or theme center will house the core of the cybernated system, educational facilities, access center, computerized communications networking systems, health and child care facilities.

All the facilities are available to everyone without cost in a resource based economy. The sole purpose of this sophisticated technology is to free people from boring monotonous tasks, make available a much higher standard of living, and provide more leisure time to spend with their families and loved ones. With an opportunity for constant growth and achievement people could have the time and freedom to choose the lifestyle they find most fulfilling. The city is designed to serve the needs of every member of society. If technology does not liberate all people for the pursuit of higher aspirations in human achievement, then all its technical accomplishments will be meaningless.

quote:The Venus Project calls for a cybernated society in which computers could replace the outmoded system of electing politicians that in most cases represent the entrenched vested interests. This new technology will not dictate or monitor individual's lives, as in The Venus Project this would be consider socially offensive and counterproductive

23:05 / 15.01.02

Interesting ideas. The site makes me think they're trying to sell me a monorail, though. Hmm. "We'll just build a place where everyone has enough of everything, and everyone will just get along. A big computer will make all the decisions for us cause humans are too stupid to handle it."

Marxist space elves.

Its a nice ideal though, I'll give it that.

14:00 / 16.01.02

I just interviewed the guy, Jacques Fresco.
He burns with a passion. I want to go out to their compound in Venus, FL.

The whole concept revolves around a moneyless society, with administrative decisions made based on scientific fact rather than lobbyists and special interest groups.

He plans to finance the first city with proceeds from a major motion picture. About the Venus Project.

The book Walden Three was supposedly written about Fresco. It's very hard to find summaries of the book.

[ 16-01-2002: Message edited by: grant ]

14:32 / 16.01.02

From this morning's interview:
quote:“What the Venus Project believes in is abundance and the distribution of resources,” Fresco tells Sun. “Take public libraries. When the library system was first introduced, most Americans couldn’t afford books – they were a luxury item. People said libraries where books were available for free would destroy the book. Obviously this hasn’t happened.
“We want libraries around the country where children can take out consumer goods like cameras, art materials, or even water skis if that’s what they like. If they want to take some pictures, check out a camera and return it when they’re done. If they enjoy it and want to try more, check out a more advanced model. Under a system like this, there is no poverty, no envy.”

17:43 / 16.01.02

I love the venus project. It's like starfleet earth without the starfleet.

18:16 / 16.01.02

He's convinced we're gonna have a social breakdown in five or six years maybe, due to too many consumer goods and not enough economically-able consumers. Society slides toward either militarism or something like he's advocating - moneyless economy.

pointless and uncalled for

18:27 / 16.01.02

Hmmm, I'm gonna remain skeptical on this issue at the moment. It's very close to communism which on paper works very well but won't combat greed.

What does he say about people acquiring material possesions? Will there be a methodology for that or is he expecting people to not want them?

I like the idea a lot as a concept, but who can I trust to live with me in such a system.

But the government would go bugfuck if it got really off the ground.

22:49 / 16.01.02

from what i understand (from watching the VProj's interstitial bit on the Space channel) they plan to combat greed (indeed, human nature, it seems) through education. Mr. Fresco mentioned something along the lines of "elevating humanity's intellectual understanding"... which is a good idea, but it's definitley a multi-generational one. And almost impossible to tear the masses away from their televisions long enough to achieve. I think the only way it'll work out is through this mass collapse Fresco expects (or hopes for).

10:34 / 17.01.02

Its a wonderful idea, but like people have said at the moment very unlikely to work, hopefully though things will be like this one day but it would take one hell of a "social breakdown" ...

tom-karika nukes it from orbit

08:30 / 18.01.02

Would it really need a social breakdown?

Couldn't we just... drift there, without too much upheaval?

Would take a long time, yes, but that's where I'm going. Shame they had to mention the golf courses

pointless and uncalled for

10:34 / 18.01.02

Saw a small bit of an interview with the guy on the Space Network.

He comes across as very intelligent and capable of the logistics of a project of this magnitude.

However his demeanour sugests something of a blind ideology. Pity really because he seems like such a nice bloke and genuinely intent on creating the best society possible.

In retrospect it's a project that I would be interested in being involved in.

14:22 / 19.01.02

It could be done... but it won't cause humans are a retarded bunch. We like to fuck ourselves.

03:34 / 20.01.02

we like to fuck ourselves for money. Or short-term personal gain, impulsivelad.

I wonder if the venus project is accepting resumes?

gentleman loser

14:16 / 20.01.02

This reminds me of Arcosanti or the Living Universe Foundation.

In other words, a bootstrap idealized Utopian vision that is probably doomed to failure from the start. I have visited Arcosanti and was very disappointed to find out that it is a couple of dozen art hippies trying to build a city. In another bit of irony, Arcosanti is now surrounded by suburban sprawl, the very thing that it was supposed to replace.

Funding will always be a problem for these projects. I admire the idealism and I hate to be a cynic, but these plans never take human motivations into account. The problem with the Ideal Society (from Plato to Marx to Rand and so on) is that you can't even get five people to agree on what to have for lunch!

I do wish these folks the best of luck and success with their vision.

Lord knows the world needs more dreamers.

[ 20-01-2002: Message edited by: gentleman loser ]

18:48 / 12.02.02

I happened to be in the area of Venus, FL over the weekend, and spent a lovely afternoon strolling the grounds of the laboratory compound. Fresco is totally "invisible" - in his younger days, he infiltrated the KKK and managed to break up a group by convincing them that environment and education mean more than race. (Or so he says. I believe him.)
He's also *really* into domes. And tropical fruit. I like that. Lush surroundings, with smooth white structures.
And lots and lots of plastic models.
If you're ever in the area, drop by and give him a ring. He's way cool.

11:21 / 13.02.02

Human impulses are indeed immediately anti-utopian, but that doesn't meant that they need to be channelled in the way they are at the moment. For example - if we took Freud's goals of 'sex' and 'power', you could simply attach power to other criteria - intelligence or education or artistic / scientific achievement...

14:07 / 13.02.02

Can I ask an idiot question? Are there any women seriously involved in the upper end of this project? Because I've noticed that the tech-heavy utopian US projects tend to be male-geek driven, and eventually, it shows.

Does anyone else recall what the Extropy Insitute was like before all the women went off to do their own thing? There was art, and creative and ethical issues were frequently discussed, the psychological dangers and advantages of longer life and so on were debated; now it just seems to be a symposium on technical challenges and medical solutions, and the life has gone out of it.

So when I see decisions being made on a 'factual basis' and so on, I get a little nervous that we'll talking about a tyranny of sciencemen, an ethos of technology without a soul, and the eventual devloution of a lovely idea.

16:47 / 13.02.02

Well, as far as I can tell, the project really consists of two people - Jacque Fresco (who's 85 or 86) and his partner Roxanne Meadows (who I think in in her 40s).

I'm not sure what exactly "partner" means in their relationship, but they seem to live in the same dome. She makes most of the models, and did a lot of the concrete work on the structures.

01:40 / 20.08.02

the cybernated society they talk about - wasn't this the plot of appleseed? some masamune shirow book, i remember. anyway, thanks for this, grant.

01:57 / 20.08.02

There were scads of these things in the 19th & early 20th century, little planned communities hoping to correct society's ills by acting directly against them. In some ways they worked. Society's ills at that point were slavery, sexual repression, and the nobility.

02:02 / 20.08.02

When one considers the enormity of the challenges facing human society today, we can safely conclude that the time is long over-due for us to reexamine our values and to reflect upon and evaluate some of the underlying issues and assumptions we have as a society.

Enormity?

Ladies and gentlemen, the revolution will not use refernce materials such as dictionaries.

Q

08:27 / 20.08.02

Enormity (n) : ( pl. -ies) 1 monstrous wickedness; monstrous crime. 2 serious error. 3 great size. [[Latin enormitas]] Usage: Sense 3 is commonly found, but is regarded as incorrect by some people.

From xrefer.com.

Ladies and gentlemen, the revolution will use online reference tools.

02:54 / 21.08.02

I guess you just can't trust reference materials.

04:33 / 21.08.02

I hate myself for falling into a game of Whose Dick-tionary is Bigger?, but Merriam-Webster has no problem with the word, other than to note: 'Enormity, some people insist, is improperly used to denote large size. They insist on enormousness for this meaning, and would limit enormity to the meaning "great wickedness." Those who urge such a limitation may not recognize the subtlety with which enormity is actually used. It regularly denotes a considerable departure from the expected or normal...When used to denote large size, either literal or figurative, it usually suggests something so large as to seem overwhelming...and may even be used to suggest both great size and deviation from morality...'

...Ohwait. This was all a clever commentary on the futility of utopianism, wasn't it?

11:23 / 21.08.02

Not so clever, apparently.

Q

20:09 / 21.08.02

The revolution will be suspended until said revolution is acceptably defined. Preferably without use of the word "enormity".