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Final Fantasy XII - Now or later?

 
 
spectre
13:18 / 02.11.06
So, US release date was a few days ago (not sure about UK). As a principle, I don't normally buy games when they first come out. I'm cheap, and so tend to operate in a gaming world that is six months (and ~$20) apart from the rest of the world.

However. I'm a big FF fan, and being bombarded by commercials, ridiculously favorable reviews from mags/blogs/friends etc., and I find my willpower rapidly waning.

So, 'Lithers- which way to go? Is the game worth breaking my routine for? Opinions on the new battle system?
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
17:34 / 02.11.06
I have not played it (PS2 died) but my good friend has been spoon feeding me info on it for a couple of days.

Apparently it takes place in the world of FF Tactics, so you are running around Ivalice. It is unclear 7 hours in if it is a prequel or sequel though.

The combat system is apparently great, my buddy loves it. He says it keeps the FF feel going but makes things as simple or complex as you want them to be.

More after I get some hands on time in the near future.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
18:16 / 02.11.06
I'm playing it, and loving it. I've had to work so I'm only 15 or so hours into it, but it kicks the hell out of any Final Fantasy since VIII, in my opinion.

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You play as Vaan, an orphaned street thief (Plucky teenaged hero? Check!)in the city of Rabanastre. Rabanastre is the capital of Dalmasca, which has been conquered and occupied by by the dastardly Archadian Empire (Evil empire to bring down? Check!). A plan to steal from the Imperial treasury goes awry, and Vann falls in with a famous Sky Pirate, his Viera lover and the former Captain of the Dalmascan knights, who was framed for the King's murder, with more to come, I'm sure (Ragtag band of misfits? Check!). It covers all the traditional Final Fantasy bases, which made me happy, but FFXII avoids some of the pitfalls of earlier editions.

Vaan is definitely a typical FF leading man, but his teenaged uncertainty, naivete, stubborness and rage against the evil empire that killed his brother doesn't turn him into a whining irritant a la Tidus in FFX. It's clear that Vaan is an angry young man who wants to do the right thing but has no outlet. He seems to be getting one as I play through. I find his character appealing and fun to play.

The supporting cast is also great, due mostly to the stellar voice-acting, which is the best of any video game to date, in my opinion. FFXII lacks the hamminess and drippy sentimentality of FFX, which is a joy. Also a joy: NO CHEESY POP MUSIC! Hooray!

The battle system is slick and easy to use, while staying true to FF roots. You can control one character and just set tactics (called Gambits) for your other party members (like Neverwinter Nights, essentially) or you can micromanage every action. Each character has a time bar that fills after every action, just like in previous FFs, but your character roams free on the board, and there is no transition between overworld and battles: All enemies are visible on screen, so you can fight or avoid battles as you please. The awesomeness of this cannot be overstated.

I have to leave for work, but I want to praise the overall look and feel of the game, first. It's so rich! Everything is gorgeous, city streets bustle with citizens and Imperial Guard do their rounds. I've only been to two major cities so far, but each has its own architecture, fashion and manner of speech. The character animations, even for civilians on the street, are stellar. My favorites are the Seeq, big, chunky toady-looking guys. Watching their belly laughs and grand gestures makes me happy.

Square did such a great job of making Ivalice feel like a real place, even without the CGI, which is the best in the business, natch. I love this game so far. I'm a FF fan since day one, but I hated X and ignored XI, so this game has been such a long-awaited treat. I'll add more when I play deeper into the game. I'm still learning the ins-and-outs.
 
 
Feverfew
18:41 / 02.11.06
... Apparently this doesn't come out in the UK until February 27th, 2007. Humph.

I spent so much time playing FFX that I almost retreated into a shell and stayed there, so I think getting this when it comes out might be a good idea, for a given value of good...

However, FFX2 sort of soured the experience for me - not in any overt way, the design of the game was good (And the aesthetics were very good) but the lurches, bumps and starts of the gameplay just drove me away, eventually...

So then, you sods who already have this... Is it a thing of beauty?
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
03:02 / 04.11.06
It's fantastic. I wasn't a big fan of FFX and FFX-2 gave me the fear, but I've enjoyed every minute of this one. It's huge, rich and gorgeous, with great characters and a slick, revamped battle system.

I'm almost 25 hours in, and I still feel like I'veonly scratched the surface. Worth every penny.
 
 
Mouse
15:46 / 04.11.06
I'm in the same boat. I want it now, but can't really justify the money or the time needed to play it right now.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
10:09 / 09.12.06
Put just under eight hours into this so far, but what I've played has been great. And brave - to make such fundamental changes to a series that's been around as long as FF has, without really having ever moved on in terms of gameplay, is a remarkably brave thing for Square Enix to have allowed to happen.

The combat is clearly based on the standard Massively Multiplayer Online RPG way of doing things, but I've always thought that the way MMORPGs handle combat owes a huge debt to Final Fantasy VII's Active Time Battle system, so really this has just come full circle. They're both fairly effective cons - combat's still turn-based, but providing a real-time timeline that the player can use to judge when any character's next attack will be acted out makes it look and feel as though it's actually a real-time system.

It's a weird marriage of traditional FF and MMORPG outside of the combat, too. Overworld sections have that free-roaming feel of the latter, but as soon as you decide to let the main storyline play ouyt for a while you're back into recognisable FF territory, battling through some fairly linear dungeons in order to come out the other side.

Gambits work excellently - really take some of the heat off the player during combat, because of the way that they allow you to set any or all of your party commands outside of combat rounds for them to use once they're in combat. It prevents you from having to ktry and keep track of them all, all of the time. Bioware could do with stealing this idea - it'd b a perfect fit in their RPGs and would work around the ludicrous 'pausable real-time' combat system that they've relied on over the years.

The Licenses are the other big new idea and one that Jake hasn't mentioned. A board of squares shows each character's access to skills, equipment and magic. Characters gain License Points for each enemy they kill, which you build up and spend on access to new squares on the board. Buy a square and those adjacent to it become available for purchase. You still need to buy the equipment or magic itself, but you need this access before characters can make use of it.

It's kind of a visualisation of the jobs/skills/weapons access system from Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, which is a good thing because what that game desperately needed was something that made all of that more approachable. It works really well, too - early on it feels as though you're going to open the entire board up fairly quickly, but you soon find yourself taking each character's skillset down a different path on the board.

Not too sure about the storyline yet - feels a bit identikit to me. Political intrigue, evil empire, etc. I guess it needed that more recognisable hook in order not to alienate the series' regular audience, but I do hope it branches out into something more unique eventually. That said, I'm having more than enough fun with the gameplay to make worries about the storyline put me off to any great degree.

Want to get on with advancing my position with the clan (another lift from MMORPGs) and hunting all the bounties. And filling up the beastiary. The bestiary's a clever way of ensuring that combat doesn't become dull - it provides you with a detailed description of all the creatures that you've fought, but also gives extra hints or backstory to the world when you kill a set number of any enemy. And there appear to be rare beasts to hunt down, as well as the bounties that you find pinned up in the clan or on pub walls.

The only bad thing about the game is that it looks like arse on this tv, but I'm fast becoming used to that.
 
 
Bear
23:04 / 09.12.06
Gah. After reading this thread today and seeing how many people were enjoying it I decided to play and I've been playing all afternoon and I just got to a boss outside the the temple after travelling across the desert and it it looks like I've totally messed up the license board because I stand no chance against the bird.

I was talking it easy on the licence board only moving a few squares at a time but after going online and checking the walkthroughs it said the boss should be easy by chaining quickenings, I didn't have any. This is all probably explained in the manual I guess it's my own fault for not buying an official copy.

I just searched around and picked up few of them for my characters but even after chaining 3 of them if only took about half its health down and then it kicked my ass.

Anyway want to explain the method they're using on the board my characters are around level 14-15 maybe they should be a lot higher?

Might be the end of the game for me if I've messed up the board I don't imagine I'll be starting again.

Piss.
 
 
Bear
23:12 / 09.12.06
It's going to be like WOW isn't it I'm going to have to go back and kill those tomato guys for hours I can tell.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
13:38 / 10.12.06
Heh. I wasn't even aware of what the quickenings were until I read that post, Bear. Just spent a couple of hours practicing with them and found a nice trick to using them that allows you to take most anything down fairly sharpish.

Make sure that you've got at least four chracters with access to quickening moves. Before you fight whichever boss is giving you a kicking, set up your party so that all three members have quickenings. Attack the boss and chain a set of them together as you've probably been doing up until this point. Once the chain's ended and all three characters' MP has drained, take one out of the active party and replace hir with another character with a quickening. You can have the new character attack the boss with their quickening, because their MP is currently full and unused, but the bonus is that doing so gives you the ability to chain in the attacks of the two party members whose MP is drained from the previous attack. The only thing that matters is if the character making the initial attack in the chain has sufficient MP to power it.

And if you've got all six characters with quickenings, you can probably do the exact same thing two more times.
 
 
Bear
14:43 / 10.12.06
Yup normally I would have quick for a week or two after last nights annoyance but I went back at it and opened up some more of the quickenings I've even got 2 characters with 2 now. I didn't realise that you could actually see the quickening on the license board how daft of me... so yeah doing as you said I manage to take the boss out big style (got a chain of 8 going)

It seems that all the characters will be able to open the whole board which stops me worrying that I'm spending points in the wrong places I think now it's just a case of who I want to be a healer and who will attack etc.

I got killed straight after the boss of course but at least I know I'm not going to have to go back about 4 hours of play.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
00:46 / 11.12.06
I'm now 150 hours deep into this thing, and at the point where I'm wandering around trying to tie up every loose end before I move on to the final dungeon, which I assume there is no coming back from. That hourage is a little misleading, because 25-30 hours of that was me figuring out how to exploit a singular enemy that summons other enemies for infinite, hands-off XP gaining and then letting my characters fight until they maxed out their levels. I was soooo proud of myself until I found out that some dude on GameFAQS did the same thing and much more elegantly than I. Still, there's a hell of a lot of game here. I still have tons of stuff to do, and even though I'm level 99, I just got my ass handed to me in one of the super-hard optional areas.

The only real problem I've got with the story is that I have no interest in helping the insufferable Princess Ashe take her father's throne back. I really don't see why Vaan, Penelo, Fran and especially Balthier would even put up with her, except as a plot device. All in all, it's good stuff, though, kind of a fantasy Star Wars. I dig it.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
17:13 / 11.12.06
Nah man, it is Star Wars. I'd heard other people making the comparison and figured that it was accurate, but more of a coincidence than anything else. Then I got to the desert and found that it was populated by Sand People. At that point, I gave up trying to excuse the similarities and started noticing ones that had previously passed me by. Pretty much everything in it so far has an analogue in Lucas' films.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
23:26 / 12.02.07
I've given up on this for the time being. Instead, I've recently started playing Final Fantasy V for the first time (on the PS1 FF Anthology double-header) and it's already doing a fairly good job of highlighting all of XII's failings.

Mainly, we're talking about the loss of that lightness of touch that came with the older games in the series - and older console RPGs in general. Where V is breezy and bright, XII is leaden and unappealingly dreary. Not in terms of the world design, but definitely where the storyline is concerned. There are none of the jokes, none of the nods to the audience, none of the daftness - if V is the original anime series, XII is the western live-action remake.
 
 
Crux Is This City's Protector.
03:08 / 13.02.07
That's exactly where I'm at, too. I just got a copy of Shadow Hearts 3, which definitely falls into the dreary modern bucket, but aside from that I've got a whole bunch of games lined up to try to recapture that old-school RPG feeling. Lightness of touch. Coming up I wanna get my hands on: Atelier Iris (so old school it's 2d, but new so it's hi-fuckin'-res too), Disgaea, and Dragon Quest VIII.
 
 
spectre
16:31 / 16.02.07
now that i've finished xii, i have to agree with both the star wars similarity and the leaden, unexciting plot aspect. While the gameplay, etc was fantastic, the story was simultanesouly so simple it was boring, and so complicated...it was boring. I think they made the mistake of assuming that everyone loved ffTactics for the political intrigue plot, and not the battle dynamic, and continued that with this game.

I played it just after dragon quest viii and before replaying ffVi, which just served to highlight the differences as the franchise has aged. next on the list is Rogue Galaxy, which looks like it may be pretty good.
 
 
Kirin? Who the heck?
18:50 / 23.02.07
I'm playing FFXII on a widescreen (CRT) TV, and I'm having some issues with the widescreen support. When the game's set to 16:9 mode, all the real-time graphics look nice and full-screen, but the pre-rendered videos only take up about three quarters of the horizontal space, along with expected letterboxing. In 4:3 mode, the real-time stuff looks stretched, but the FMVs show up just fine. Is it my TV's settings? I've tried in on two, and got the same with both.
 
 
Feverfew
19:07 / 25.02.07
I now finally have my copy of this. I'm about four hours in, but that includes an entire multitude of dicking around in the desert. I can't say I'm a massive fan of the new combat system, but then I haven't had a chance to adapt to it yet. That, and I'm convinced the English Voice of Balthier is, in fact, James Marsters.

I'm beginning to wonder if, in all honesty, I play the FF series simply because they guarantee more than 10 hours play and a reasonable amount of depth plus the pretty pretty graphics - the last game I played was Ultimate Spider-Man and, while I loved it, it was all over too, too quickly...

I will play, I will enjoy, and I will return.
 
 
Lama glama
11:34 / 01.03.07
Got this last Sunday and as I've had the entire week off, I've really been able to get to grips with it. I wasn't sold on the combat system initially, but I'm a good 13 hours or so into it now and I can safely say that it's probably the best system to date. I'm not too eager on the LP grid though. Unlocking the ability to wear armour and weapons is mightily irritating, and it's very easy to overlook buying stuff that's essential for defeating even the earliest of bosses.

Whoo..the bosses, they're a tough lot aren't they? Boss battles are the most intense, explosion filled spectacles in a Final Fantasy to date. Bosses in previous titles were a slow but steady affair. Two characters attack, while a third chucks potions and cure spells at them. This time however, everybody has to get stuck in with their quickenings and uber spells of pwnage.

I'm loving the new fully interactive camera. The locations so far have been a fairly mixed bag. Rabanastre and Bhujerba were gorgeous (and enormous). The dungeons are a bit lacking in style and seem to go on forever. Crossing the sand-sea was a low point thusfar and really highlighted some of the problems in the game--my personal peeve: there aren't a good variety of enemies and in dungeon expanses that can become boring very quickly, that's a bad thing.

The voice acting is wonderful, especially Balthier, Fran and Penelo. Vaan can be a bit emo at times, but his participation in conversations seems to be limited to exposition thusfar, so that's fine by me. It's definitely the most fun I've had with a Final Fantasy so far. I've already spent three hours or so doing the clan hunts, which seem to offer the monster variety absent the game's main event. I'm indifferent to the story so far. Final Fantasy 10 was nothing but characterisation, almost to the detriment of the high concept of the pilgrimage and Sin, but 13 hours or so into 12 and the characters remain silhouettes. I can see that there's potential for exploration of their story, but I have a horrible feeling that the story's focus won't shift from the political stage of Ivalice.

One other thing I'm a little disappointed about is that the main team is entirely made up of Hume's with the exception of Fran. In a world that has seeq, Nu'Mou and moogles--which FF: Tactics Advance made good use of, it would have been nice to have a little more variety.
 
 
Feverfew
19:51 / 09.03.07
Eight hours in and I've reached my first Point of Annoyance; "Take out the judges, and the rest should run away!"

Well, if I could take out the judges, I bloody would, wouldn't I? Instead, my team seems to be taken apart very, very quickly and very, very irritatingly.

Grr.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:31 / 07.08.07
Final CRACK ROCKS XII more like!

That is my way of saying I am now hopelessly hooked on this.

I think I must have lucked my way into doing just enough hunts to mean that I've found bits of the game, that other people describe struggling with above, relatively easy. Of course I had the above guidance about Quickenings to help me, but still. Judge Gides went down so easy, it was like beating up an ill old man in a suit of rusty armour. He barely got time to throw a punch, let alone a spell. By the time I got to the Tomb, Fran had her second quickening, so that evil flying fish ghost demon monster got PWND double quick too.

I'm loving the scope of this game - it opens out in an even more "oh my god there is so much more of this world" style than Okami (although it's less original than that one). What I'm hoping is most telling in that regard is that I have a shitload of licenses for weapons, armour and magic that I haven't seen any sign of being able to buy yet - bring it on.
 
  
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