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Underground > Policy & Help >

The ORG banner - does it exercise you?

11:53 / 30.10.06

OK, there's a scuffle going on in Conversation at the moment about how appropriate it is to have a banner on the front page linking to the Open Rights Group.
The gist of the objections seem to be that regardless of how relevant to the board it is, it's advertising and we shouldn't have it, or that it's a one-man fiat imposing a particular political viewpoint on everyone else.
Me, I don't like the design (as I've said before, red, white and black are usually avoided in design as the tend to have certain political overtones) but I don't have a problem with it as I think it's an organisation which stands up against the sort of creeping commercialisation and government control of the net which could make sites such as this unviable in many ways (censorship, removal of anonymity, removal of net neutrality, &c. &c.).
However, some people don't like it, so let's hear reasons why, shall we?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

14:43 / 30.10.06

I don't mind it at all... as has been said, it's Tom's board, so he can put banners for whatever he wants here. If he started putting up banners for organisations I really didn't agree with, then I think I'd probably go elsewhere, having divined that the place was run by someone I had serious ideological incompatibilities with.

ORG? No problem from this quarter.

And it's probably worth remembering that a few years ago the site DID carry ads. Fortunately it appears that Tom doesn't need to do that anymore, and I can't see it as being any worse carrying a banner for an organisation whose motives he supports than for a company that he needs the money from. Personally I'd say it was a whole shitload better, but then ymmv.

14:47 / 30.10.06

I have no problem with it at all.

Phex: Dorset Doom

15:20 / 30.10.06

It advertises a good cause as opposed to H3RB4L V.I.A.G.RA or 'bid for Barbelith Underground on eBay', so I have no objections to it staying.

18:30 / 30.10.06

I can remove it if people would prefer, obviously, but I would encourage people to explore the issues on the site concerned - it's pretty relevant to many of the issues that Barbelith people care about - surveillance, freedoms, technologies etc.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

18:35 / 30.10.06

To be honest, Tom, so far it looks like it pisses off exactly one person. Give this thread a while to develop, sure, but I wouldn't start worrying just yet.

18:46 / 30.10.06

I navigate the forum via the forum numbers rather than via the rainbow, so I never see it, but it hasn't bothered me when I've seen it. Besides, Barbelith serves ads to non-members anyways, doesn't it? I seem to remember that the last time I logged out there were Google AdSense ads in-thread. No-one seemed to mind that when it was implemented.

18:50 / 30.10.06

Presence of the ad: no problem.
Appearance/placement of ad: could be better, but it's not an earth-shattering deal (No, I don't have a suggestion of where to put it, it just seems a little off where it is now).

I look at it this way. Pretend Barbelith is very nice beach house where we all gather to hang out and talk about how Paris Hilton is more of a simulacrum than Superman is an example of the übermensch. One day, you come in and Tom, the owner of the beach house who is so kindly letting us hang out here free of charge (but if you want to drop some money in the hat so he can pay rent, that's cool - if you can't, that's cool too) has taped up a flyer for an advocacy group he likes in the foyer. It's not even displayed in such a way that you still see it once you're in the house proper. Is that really such a big deal? Now, maybe if it was "Eat at Joe's and tell'em Tom sent ya (so I can get a kickback)" then yeah, that would be inappropriate. But that's just not the case here.

MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!

19:30 / 30.10.06

What he said.

20:31 / 30.10.06

Basically, the main anxiety seems to be whether I'm forcing my politics or campaigning on the rest of you, and so I'll say on that bit alone I think the guy may have a point. If people disagree with me having done that, then I'll take it down. If people think it's okay, I'll leave it up. If people are interested in whether or not we could run other ads up there as well, I'll look into it.

ONLY NICE THINGS

21:14 / 30.10.06

Hmmm. I think, however, that if you had said "hello, there's an organisation that campaigns for digital civil liberties, I am involved with it, I feel passionately about it, they're having a blood drive, would anyone mind if I put an ad up", nobody would have. Glandmaster's response is, I fear, rather left-field.

AS to whether we should rotate front page adverts, or have a mechanism for nominating worthy causes - if we want to go to the trouble of setting up a mechanism for nomination, discussion and approval, we could do that. I think there are more pressing concerns, but if someone doesn't mind advancing a proposed model, why not?

23:37 / 30.10.06

I am quite happy it is there as it reminds me to go look into what mischief is afoot with digital rights. It's like 'all employees must wash hands' sign, common sense but a nice reminder.

ONLY NICE THINGS

08:15 / 01.11.06

Oh, yes - ontopic, I don't have a particular problem with it, for the reasons above. If it were to change every week, or advertise a porn site, or be the first of thousands of banner ads decorating every page, that might be a problem, but, frankly, you are already trusting Tom not to do stuff like that. For example, we trust him not to sell your email addresses to spammers, presumably, or we would not share them with him.

So, I think it's reasonable for people with specific concerns to ask for assurances. Personally, I'd like a bit of discussion about any changes made to this ad - either removal (which this thread is, basically) or replacement with another ad, or making it flash three times a second. However, I'm not that worried about it - I'm sympathetic with the aims of the group, am acquainted with some of its members and don't see its placement as enormously detrimental to the running of Barbelith.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

10:52 / 03.11.06

As the only one who's expressed a problem with it, do we think Glandmaster's actually going to post in this thread?

Disco is My Class War

11:36 / 03.11.06

Somehow I doubt it.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

11:57 / 03.11.06

Me too. Can we take that to mean that there isn't a problem with the banner at the moment then?

Our Lady Has Left the Building

11:58 / 03.11.06

I've PMed Glandmaster, just on the off-chance that ze doesn't look at the Policy.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

12:01 / 03.11.06

Well, he's already been given a link in the other thread, but thanks anyway, Lady.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

13:37 / 06.11.06

...Bueller?

Our Lady Has Left the Building

13:48 / 06.11.06

There does seem to be a lack of fiscal currency being placed where his voicebox exists in 4D spacetime doesn't there?

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:51 / 06.11.06

Does it matter, though? I mean, is he posting anywhere else? Maybe he's just on holiday or something. And, you know, somebody else might be putting the finishing touches to their own objections as we speak... I think we can stop bumping this thread with challenges. If anyone objects, they'll have plenty of time to see this, Policy being a pretty slow forum.