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Space Elevator

 
 
Quantum
15:00 / 20.10.06
Wikipedia article here.

In the news, NASA offer a prize for anyone who can make the cable.

The cable must be made of a material with an extremely high tensile strength/density ratio (the stress a material can be subjected to without breaking, divided by its density). A space elevator can be made relatively economically feasible if a cable with a density similar to graphite and a tensile strength of ~65–120 GPa can be produced in bulk at a reasonable price.

Using the density and tensile strength of steel, and assuming a diameter of 1 cm at ground level, yields a diameter of several hundred kilometers (!) at geostationary orbit height, showing that steel, and indeed most materials used in present day engineering, are unsuitable for building a space elevator.

So the crux of it is whether sufficiently strong carbon nanotubes can be made cheaply enough to make the elevator feasible. The climber bit is easy, comparatively, the difficult part is making the enormously long cable and attaching it to a big rock in geostationary orbit.
 
 
Evil Scientist
13:52 / 23.10.06
I've always been a strong advocate of space elevators, they're one of those things we really need to invest in if we're serious about getting off of this rock and out onto the other ones.

I'd be nervous about one country having complete control over one though (especially a country like the US who so recently made rumblings about their intention to further militarise their space assets). I'd rather see the first space elevators being an international effort, and something whose applications could be accessible by all countries.

Still, space elevators and mass drivers. They get me all hot and bothered.
 
 
Quantum
14:17 / 23.10.06
I'd fund mass drivers before space elavators. Less to go wrong, less Global Extinction Event if it goes wrong. I think the low-energy high-efficiency space planes and balloons and stuff are the way to go.
Much as I'd love to see a real live beanstalk, thousands of miles of unbreakable nanotubing whiplashing out of the sky at terminal velocity I can live without.

In 'The Barsoom Project; Larry Niven proposes testing a beanstalk on Mars- lighter gravity, less impact if it fails, if it works you have an elevator to Mars and a prototype to copy for Earth. Problem is one of the moons intersects where it would go, but the principle's sound- why not do one on the moon?
 
 
Good Intentions
00:43 / 26.10.06
A guy I used to know is on the cutting edge of nanotech research, and when I lost touch with him 2 years ago he was quite candid that he believes that nanotech isn't feasible. Discovering it the hard way, after 8 years of research. Even if he is proved wrong, or the criteria of feasability change (he made a point out of the enormous time it takes to produce any fibre, never mind weave it together) the simple fact is that is we have a long, long way to go before this is achievable.
 
 
Evil Scientist
08:33 / 26.10.06
Well not really. A decent, easy-to-mass produce material to build the cable out of could easily be discovered tomorrow. The marvellous thing about space elevators is that once you have the right materials they are, obviously in theory (currently), relatively easy to assemble.

he was quite candid that he believes that nanotech isn't feasible.

Depends what kind of nano he was talking about here. Your bog standard sci-fi staple invisible matter replicators may well be centuries away. But nanotechnology is an umbrella term that refers to a lot of different technological disciplines that operate on the nanometric scale. One such discipline is based around the construction of extremely strong materials, not using bacterial engines, but building the materials starting at the nanometre range.
 
 
Good Intentions
06:43 / 27.10.06
A decent, easy-to-mass produce material to build the cable out of could easily be discovered tomorrow.
I don't think so. Neither did he.

When I last spoke to him the most sophisticated nanotech lab in the world could only produce a handful (literally) of grey dust a month. And not through lack of trying.
 
 
Evil Scientist
09:15 / 27.10.06
I don't think so. Neither did he.

Some of the greatest scientific discoveries have happened due to blind luck. I'm not saying it will, but it could.

Bear in mind that nanotechnology is still in it's infancy. But it's a growing field of study.

Slightly threadrotty, but I snatched the following current uses for nanotechnology off of the New Scientist Nanotech FAQ.

Computer hard drives

Car parts and catalytic converters

Scratch- and wear-resistant paints and coatings

Sunscreens (titanium dioxide nanoparticles are transparent, yet absorb UV light at the same time) and lipsticks

Longer lasting tennis balls, and hardwearing yet lightweight tennis racquets

Metal cutting tools

Antibacterial bandages incorporating silver nanoparticles

Anti-static packaging for sensitive electronic equipment

Nanofilm-coated "self-cleaning" windows and

Stain-resistant fabrics


Which suggests to me that the industry is doing more than producing handfuls of expensive grey dust.

I'd fund mass drivers before space elavators. Less to go wrong, less Global Extinction Event if it goes wrong.

Mass drivers would be more efficient on the Moon where they wouldn't need to fight gravity so much to launch stuff. On Earth the right kind of elevator could use the energy provided by stuff coming down to boost the stuff going up.

Interesting version of an elevator on the wiki is the space fountain which incorporates concepts from both elevtors and mass drivers.

A space fountain would use pellets fired up from the ground by a mass driver, the pellets traveling through the center of a tower. These pellets would impart their kinetic energy to the tower structure via electromagnetic drag as they traveled up and again as their direction was reversed by a magnetic field at the top. Thus the structure would not be supported by the compressive strength of its materials, and could be hundreds of kilometers high. Unlike tethered space elevators (which have to be placed near the equator), a space fountain could be located at any latitude. Space fountains would require a continuous supply of power to remain aloft.

With regards to the catastrophic effects of the tether breaking, I noticed the following on the wiki too:

Some authors (such as science fiction writers David Gerrold in Jumping off the Planet, Kim Stanley Robinson in Red Mars, and Ben Bova in Mercury) have suggested that such a failure would be catastrophic, with the thousands of kilometers of falling cable creating a swath of meteoric destruction along Earth's surface. However, in most cable designs, the upper portion of any cable that fell to Earth would burn up in the atmosphere. Additionally because proposed initial cables (the only ones likely to be broken) have very low mass (roughly 1 kg per kilometer) and are flat, the bottom portion would likely settle to Earth with less force than a sheet of paper due to air resistance on the way down.

Which is interesting. However, I agree that we'd do better to do initial tests on the Moon simply so that any accidents don't harm either actual or (in the case of Mars) potentially terraformable environments.
 
 
Good Intentions
10:54 / 01.11.06
Which suggests to me that the industry is doing more than producing handfuls of expensive grey dust.
All of which has, you'd notice, nothing to do with making nanofibre cables. Conspicuously so.
 
 
Isadore
00:39 / 02.11.06
There's a team at UT Dallas that published in Science last year claiming to be able to assemble nanotube 'forests' at over 7 meters per minute.

Abstract here.

Not sure about more recent developments, as I have not been keeping up with my reading lately; naughty, naughty...
 
  
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