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Ritual Satanic Abuse & Sexual Repression

 
 
grant
20:17 / 12.10.06
There's a largish discussion which seems to be a-brewing in the Q&A thread tying together Satanic Ritual Abuse (or is it Ritual Satanic Abuse?), sexual repression, porn, bookshops and Genesis P-Orridge.

I figured it'd be tidier to have that discussion in a dedicated thread.

This is that thread.

The fun started with redtara's post asking about a bookshop conundrum (excerpted) :
Normally, if someone orders something a bit grotty I role my eyes and process the order. Occasonally I refuse (only once in four years for a man ordering a book on directing pornography). My problem is that the orderer is part of a nondenominational church that lets space in the upper floors of our city center building. They are a nice group of people .... I asked the worker who ordered the book if she had ever met a person who had experienced this kind of abuse. When she answered yes I bit my tongue from asking how many survivors of catholic abuse she had come accross.

...Dear Temple, what should I do? Is this non of my business? Should I leave them to their god fearing delusions? Is there actually a genuine phenominum that deserves analysis and treatment other than the levels of abuse you might expect within any community that requires specialist abuse treatment other than that which any abuse survivor might find helpful? Is it OK to dismiss claims of abuse from anyone no matter how their experiences might be being manipulated, after all childeren hsould be heard and believed. I feel like I would if someone had ordered anything that propagated bigotry. What is the Temple's opinion of Satanic Abuse?


which garnered a few responses along the lines of...


A heart, wreathed in flame: Bottom line: No, it is not a real phenomenon. Every single case of organised ritual Satanic abuse has been quite thoroughly debunked (dudes, this came up in a thread earlier this year, IIRC--anyone recall which one? There was a good link on the Satanic Panic) leaving one or two cases of child abuse that happened to include a ritual componant and countless children traumatised by being separated from their non-abusive parents, adults burdened with hideous false memories of torture that never happened, families torn apart and lives ruined.

...How you decide to handle the situation is up to you, but you have no duty to propagate this kind of thing. (Personally I'd say this was a metric shedload worse than wanting a book on directing porn.)


armed with madness: Well, to start, i think it is utter bollocks. Scary dangerous bollocks, but bollocks nonetheless.

...First stop is that the book was written in 1994. The late 80s and early 90s were when a lot of the 'satanic abuse' cases came about (in the UK. In the US it started sooner). If your customer is really interested i'd suggest, that you suggest, them getting in touch with the BBC and getting hold of a documentary made recently called Satanic abuse: The truth at last . One of the most heartbreaking documentaries i've ever seen.

...There is Speak of the Devil , Suzanne Ruthvens, Malleus Satani (i've read some of her other books on other subjects and whilst they are ok, i wouldn't expect much in an in depth analysis way).


....Just to clarify, the BBC doc was called , 'When Satan Comes to Town'.


then, drink me said:

Presumably the root cause of the "Satanic Abuse" witch-hunts is sexual repression? I haven't read much on the subject but I can't quite imagine sex-healthy cultures whipping themselves up into murderous fevers imagining their children ravished by foul sub-humans. Conversely, there's no way Gen P-Orridge would've suffered that shit if he hadn't been "The Tampon Man" etc. And if it is a sexual blockage then, redtara, your awkward situation now could be the direct karmic result of your imposing "morality" on the guy wanting the "directing pornography" book, couldn't it?


which attracted a fair number of responses itself along the lines of:

a heart, wreathed in flame:
I see it all now. A book on directing porn is by definition a nice, healthy, pro-sex item, devoid of any negative associations (the commercial porn industry being the liberating and egalitarian funfest that we all know it to be), the suppression of which will automatically call down a plague of Satanic-panic nutters to order discomfortingly bigoted texts just to put you in your place.

Holy fucking cats.


and

armed with madness>So, let me get this straight. What you are saying is that because Redtara has previously objected to pornography, or getting in pornography, through hir shop, that 'karma' deals hir with a bloke who wants to buy a book on Satanic Abuse. Ok

Is that what you are saying?


after which both armed/madness and heart/flame declared they were avid consumers of porn.
 
 
grant
20:34 / 12.10.06
This was followed by

Saturn's Nod: I think not all satanic abuse is mythical: what about that priest who ritually murdered the nun in New York? I think the feminist magazine Ms had an article about it recently and some info here too. That guy was alleged to have been involved in non-lethal ritual abuse as well so there would be a case for knowing how to help people who've survived that kind of abuse to recover.

and

trouser the trouserian: some more info on Valerie Sinason:
article in Daily Telegraph
and another article discussing the Independent's story on Satanic Cannibals and how the DoH spent £22,000 commissioning a report co-authored by Sinason: Hale-Sinason Report

Finally, this article looks at Genesis P. Orridge's "exile" from the UK as a consequence of Channel 4's "Dispatches" programme.



...into which Quantum reveals more details here, and mentions the thread on (possibly Satanic) sheep mutilations.

and then xk chimed in with:
there has been a good amount of bubbling down in the Jungian fairytale analysis crowd that the fairytale archtypes (bad parents/step parents/monsters/devil) can be triggered as a narrative. What this means really is that while the events outlined may not happen in our tangible shared reality the experience of those people ( through false reclaimed memories) is traumatic enough to cause PTSD. If you look at myth as a hyper text running along side of actual events and creating a frame of intrepretation it's pretty damn horrifying to learn that the old school Grimm fairytale lense can be activated quite readily.
Religious Tolerance's INVESTIGATOR'S GUIDE TO ALLEGATIONS OF RITUAL CHILD ABUSE


following which drink me returned with:

Okay:

Presumably the root cause of the "Satanic Abuse" witch-hunts is sexual repression?

Why do you think that?


The relentless warped sex within the invented scenarios suggests, to me, that warped sex may prompt their invention. But then I have an incomplete and immature understanding of, and agreement with, Wilhelm Reich, and I tend to see all gross and misplaced expenditure of energy as frustration of erotic drives. (Do these big "Satanic Abuse" scandals flare up all over the place or are they concentrated in certain areas, certain psychological climates?)

It was mostly Child Psychologists veering wildly out of control, not sexual repression.

As far as answers go, that doesn't go very far. "Why have these fucked-up situations occurred?" Because some people happened to veer wildly out of control - end of story.

("Why did ghadis feel the need to post such gleefully spiteful shit concerning the imminent death of an old sick writer?" Because ze was drunk on tequila; and afterwards ze was remorseful. "Okay... Why does ghadis feel the need to consume substances that twist hir into such nasty shapes?" Don't even go there.)

What you are saying is that because redtara has previously objected to pornography, or getting in pornography, through hir shop, that 'karma' deals hir with a bloke who wants to buy a book on Satanic Abuse.

If you believe, as a lot of us do, that whole Trismegistus "as above, so below" malarkey, then it follows that all of us, in our everyday lives, with our ups and downs and our irritating customers at work and everything else, are enacting much larger issues. If - if - if the "Satanic Abuse" cases are the result of sexual repression then, sure, a minor act of repressing sexuality leads neatly to the minor nightmare of having your head invaded by such sick shit.


(I hope I've made all the quotations clear there.)

And responded to further questions with:

Hi MC -

1) are you confirming that you believe that a book on directing porn is by definition a nice, healthy, pro-sex item, devoid of any negative associations (the commercial porn industry being the liberating and egalitarian funfest that we all know it to be)

Interesting question - I guess my answer is gonna be that such a book is probably as nice, healthy, and pro-sex as any other book on directing movies, the commercial film industry being the liberating and egalitarian funfest that we all know it to be.

2) are you confirming that you believe that refusing to sell it was an act of sexual suppression?

Yes.


after which redtara sed:

The shop is run by a women's co-op on socialist femenist multicultural principles and as such we get lots of chaps wanting to be contentious and get into a heated debate about abortion, misegination, communism, and so on and so forth. I am adept at spotting a chain yanker....

...Finally I would be very surprised if karma was the blunt instrument you describe in your cause and effect scenario. And if it is another way of looking at is that I have been given an opportunity to broaden the horizens of a group of basically descent people who are fundamentaly ignorant of the wider spiritual world.


There was some more talk about that, and then armed with madness declared:

"Why have these fucked-up situations occurred?" Because some people happened to veer wildly out of control - end of story.

("Why did ghadis feel the need to post such gleefully spiteful shit concerning the imminent death of an old sick writer?" Because ze was drunk on tequila; and afterwards ze was remorseful. "Okay... Why does ghadis feel the need to consume substances that twist hir into such nasty shapes?" Don't even go there.)


Not quite sure what you are getting at here drink me. Don't get me wrong, i don't mind or disagree with what you've written as i think it's a pretty fair summing up of what happned (although i don't think that i'm that remorseful to be honest, that was the hangover talking). I'm just not sure how it relates to this discussion.

Are you saying that it was my own sexual repression that caused my slightly tipsy dig at the cheeky Futurist and his loyal fans, in the same way that it is sexual repression that fuels fundementalists and over zelous socialworkers and makes them hallucinate Satan everywhere?



At which point I thought it would be best to move all discussion about sexual repression and the Satanic Ritual Abuse thing into its own thread and out of the (relatively) tidy Stupid Questions thread.

So. Here we are.
 
 
Quantum
22:08 / 12.10.06
Here we are indeed. The idea that secret societies of satanists have been ritually molesting children is a conspiracy theory based around child psychologists and social workers leading children into remembering things that never happened, and adult recollections of 'suppressed memories' that are equally fictitious. There *are* organised child abuse rings if prosecutions are anything to go by. They've got nothing to do with satanism. There are many survivors of abuse (just ask childline), but not many of them that I know have forgotten about it.

On drink me's comments I don't know where to start so I'm not going to- getting asked to provide a book on satanic abuse is karmic retribution for not providing a book on directing porn films? Pshaw.
 
 
sorenson
22:52 / 12.10.06
Quantum said:

The idea that secret societies of satanists have been ritually molesting children is a conspiracy theory based around child psychologists leading children into remembering things that never happened, and adult recollections of 'suppressed memories' that are equally fictitious.

You know I agree with this, I really do, but it is so much more confusing in real life, when this affects someone you know. Is a long personal story appropriate here? I am a Temple newbie (by way of the excellent new recently updated thread feature), so forgive me if this post is not quite right for the discussion or the forum. It just strikes me that many people posting about this topic don't have any personal experience with the issues, and it might help to have a more complex view put forward. (I should also acknowledge up-front that this is a real red hot button issue for me).

My mum recovered memories of satanic ritual abuse, and for many years it tore our family apart - it was horrible. I was abused by my stepfather and I certainly never forgot a single thing. But it mattered to me that people believed me, so it was pretty hard to listen to my mum claim that my grandparents and aunts had done such terrible things (that she described in detail - man, it was bad). I wanted to believe her because when I was twelve she believed me (a lot of mothers don't), and because women are so often disbelieved. At the same time her accusations seemed ludicrous to me in the context of my own experiences with our extended family. It was a very hard time.

Eventually it became pretty clear that she was suffering pretty badly from previously undiagnosed mental illness (she never did get a good diagnosis), and at that stage the rest of the family were able to forgive her for the accusations because they could rationalise them in the framework of her being 'mad'. That was pretty awful for her though, because she so badly didn't want to be mad - the medication dulled her creativity and spirituality (which was based around being psychic, writing, painting, crystals, developing her own flower essences, etc etc), but the psychotic episodes that resulted when she stopped medication ended up with her arrested by the police and episodes in hospital. I don't think she ever forgot the memories of abuse, but she did somehow manage to forgive her mother and sisters (her father was dead by this stage). Dealing with her mental illness was also hard, but is a topic for another thread (perhaps the one in head shop).

Anyway, for me, the point that I eventually reached was to believe the core truth of her story, that she had been abused, but to see the florid stories of satanism and dead babies as a symptom of her psychosis - as a way of trying to process something very difficult. One of my grandfather's friends did abuse my aunt when she was a child, and my grandfather was a bit too interested in sex in a kind of creepy way, so it seems entirely plausible to me that he or a friend of his did something dodgy at some time during my mother's childhood.

Then what I think happened was that a couple of dodgy psychologists that my mum saw, one from a catholic counselling agency, and one very new-age type of counsellor, failed to recognise my mum's mental health problems, and drew out instead a series of more and more elaborate 'memories' that had that grain of truth but were also substantially drawn from her psychosis. If I could somehow exact revenge on those two women I would!

So, from my own experiences, I don't think that recovered memories of RSA are the result of sexual oppression - I suspect that they are more likely to be associated with mental health issues, though I am happy to have this claim challenged. I do think that irresponsible/misguided counselling can do an enormous amount of harm, and I think that the damage caused by the whole RSA thing to so many families is not only a tragedy in itself, but also a tragedy in that it has cast suspicion on all people who speak up about abuse.

(The postscript to my mother's story is that she died of a heart-attack four years ago. I think that the weight she put on from the lithium, combined with the strain on her heart of being mid-psychotic episode, is what caused the attack. I miss her, despite life being somewhat simpler now.)
 
 
Quantum
23:12 / 12.10.06
Sorenson, that's a great post and I just wanted to say I agree with everything you wrote. Thank you for sharing it.
I don't think that recovered memories of RSA are the result of sexual oppression I definitely don't either.
I particularly agree with this;
I think that the damage caused by the whole RSA thing to so many families is not only a tragedy in itself, but also a tragedy in that it has cast suspicion on all people who speak up about abuse.
What I hate is that the outlandish fabricated claims of satanic abuse could make people, even a little bit less likely to believe reports of actual abuse, the most horrible barrier you could put in an abused child's way. It's hard enough to be believed even if children summon the courage to tell someone, they certainly don't need the extra doubt thrown up by this sort of thing.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
12:26 / 13.10.06
I think that the damage caused by the whole RSA thing to so many families is not only a tragedy in itself, but also a tragedy in that it has cast suspicion on all people who speak up about abuse.

Gary Clapton, in his 1993 book The Satanic Abuse Controversy (well worth reading if you can find a copy) argues that the claims for the 'reality' of satanic/ritual abuse of children created a distorted model whereby it was the 'worst' form of child sexual abuse - thus relegating "ordinary" sexual abuse to a secondary status.

JET report - the infamous Joint Enquiry Report into allegations of Satanic Child Abuse in Nottingham in 1988.
article by Chris Bray documenting various media reports & associated events between 1987 - 1989.
Cauldron editor Michael Howard documents events relating to SCA in 1991.
 
 
Ticker
12:53 / 13.10.06
One of the most important aspects of supporting suvivors of abuse is to believe them. The matter gets a bit complex when dealing with artificial memories (I don't call them false/fake as a matter of respect). The power of imagination is not a pale passive thing rather for some folks it is as emotionally intense as tangible shared events.

False Memory Syndrome links

There are a large group of people suffering from traumatic experiences that happen outside of our shared tangible reality. Some UFO abductees fall into this category as well as RSA and several other groups. Indeed many people who have horrible hallucinations experience them as valid tangible pieces of their reality.

It is particularly important to realize that children who have these experiences integrate them into their psyche as actual events. Full stop, think about that for a minute. So on one hand a therapist/community must validate the traumatic impact of the artificial memory while on the other help the person understand that it is not a part of the collective experience.

Ok and to make matter worse in the case of corraborated/verifiable abuse the child may trigger the archtypal layer of interpretation. Once the normal framework is damaged by a trust violation ( a good adult protector becomes a bad monster or is replaced by one symbolicly) the child's imagination may begin to project unreal details.

It becomes very difficult to separate the memory strands. Currently the most compassionate approach is to help the sufferer understand the context of the experiences (implanted/artificial/genuine) and to treat the symptoms caused by the memories.
 
 
Unconditional Love
13:27 / 13.10.06
New Research Casts Doubts on False Memory Syndrome

``There is now consistent evidence that 'False Memory Syndrome' cannot explain all, or even most, examples of recovered memories of trauma,'' the British Psychological Society said in a statement.

``There is increasing evidence that many recovered memories cannot be explained by so-called False Memory Syndrome. To date there is no convincing evidence for a specific False Memory Syndrome,'' Dr. Bernice Andrews, who conducted the study, told Reuters.

``What we've shown is that a substantial proportion of these memories have been corroborated,'' she said in a telephone interview.
 
 
Unconditional Love
13:39 / 13.10.06
FMS The big lie.

Please note the titled paragraph 'Founders of FMSF'
And the following - Dr underwager resigned from the fmsf following his 1993 interview in a dutch paedophile magazine which endorsed sex between adults and children and also suggested decriminalisation of paedophilia.
 
 
Ticker
13:39 / 13.10.06
I agree it's a tricky mess.

Preliminary RMT Study on Ritual Abuse Recovered Memories
 
 
trouser the trouserian
14:06 / 13.10.06
News reports from the British False Memory Society

xk

Can you explain more about what you mean by triggering the archetypal layer of interpretation - perhaps with reference to a specific case?
 
 
Ticker
15:04 / 13.10.06
I maybe mangling it in my presentation so I would refer you to this article & this book

snippets from above article/book links:


The question of memory's origin in history versus imagination came into focus within early psychoanalysis. It was precisely the question of memories of childhood sexual abuse that preoccupied Sigmund Freud. At first Freud thought he had discovered the etiology of hysteria as being due to literal childhood seduction. By 1897 Freud concluded that at least some of his patients had not actually been seduced, but were in fact imagining the events. In his words, "It is impossible to distinguish between truth and emotionally-charged fiction." Freud expanded (not abandoned as has been charged), his etiology of neurosis so as to include the role of fantasy. In Paul Kugler's words: "Freud had discovered that memory records not only perceptions, but also wishes and apperceptions. Memory is a confabulated record of the events occurring in the exterior environment, along with those events occurring in the interior environment. Furthermore, in the unconscious there is no 'indication of reality,' which means it is impossible to distinguish between history and desire" (p.45).

Another founder of psychoanalysis, Carl Jung, recognized the productive creative aspect of memory. Jung recognized that memory images arise from a conjunction of outer environmental influences plus the specific reactions of the individual. The memory image exists independently of the historical referent, even if based in part upon perception. This realization led Jung to speak no longer of the historical childhood and the historical parents, but to employ instead the term imago. The imago bears traces of both external and internal history. The person's love, admiration, resistance, hatred, rebelliousness and envy transfigure the perceptual contents, producing an imago. Again in Paul Kugler' words, "The 'imago' is the merging place of perception and apperception. And because of this merging, no one can ever distinguish for sure between remembered history and imagined fantasy" (p.49).

To say that memory is a mixing of history and fantasy does not mean that memory is invalid, unreal or unimportant. If we consider "abuse" and, "being abused" as psychological experiences rather than historical facts, then whenever abuse is reported by patients, "abuse" is actually occurring. Again in Paul Kugler's words, "So, the problem is not whether the patient suffers from seduction or abuse. Of course the patient does, and such abuse exists simply because the patient says it exists. The abuse exists as a psyche fact. The real problem is in how the treating therapist approaches the patient's image of abuse" (p.49).

"If the therapist derives psychic reality from physical and historical 'reality,' then physical, historical seduction will be considered the preponderant etiological factor. If, however, the therapist defines psychic reality more in terms of wishes, desires and archetypal images, then these factors will be considered most etiologically significant. And, finally, if the therapist works from the definition of reality that both the environment and the individual emotional responses of the person are equally real, then a combination of these factors will determine the etiology" (p.50).

Where we are led by Paul Kugler's thought is that memories recovered in therapy cannot be considered simple, historical events. Within the patient memories are a confabulation of history and fantasy. Furthermore, the patient is not alone in therapy. The therapist's beliefs about the nature of psychic reality will shape what he communicates to the patient, which will in turn shape what memories the patient communicates to the therapist.

Within the context of therapy it is sufficient to accept memories of abuse as psychically real. The emotional reality, the feelings, are worked upon as psychic problems requiring healing. It is quite different when patient and therapist take the memory as literally real and attempt to act in the world. Efforts to act upon memories from therapy as if they were literal history are problematic.


rereading it I can see it is not specify addressing the archtypal question (but is still interesting to this thread me thinks) so I'll dig into my Jungian stuff a bit deeper and find the stuff on fairytales. Maybe it's related to Bruno Bettelheim's stuff I have to go dig through.
Anyhow what I'm babbling about (without laying my hands on the source material so indulge me please) is that in cases of corroborated abuse a coping mechanism of the children's perception of reality is to call on fairytale horrors as a framing reference. Before I dig myself into a great big hole I'll go find the material.
 
 
Frank Fress
18:26 / 13.10.06
"Banned" documentary "Conspiracy of Silence" about government connections to pedophilic sex rings.

Conspiracy of Silence: Too hot for the Discovery Channel.
 
 
Unconditional Love
05:58 / 14.10.06
Jennifer j freyd

Betrayal-trauma: Traumatic amnesia as an adaptive response to childhood abuse

A very intresting lady, whose parents sat on the board of FMSF and whom she alleges abused her.
 
 
Unconditional Love
11:30 / 14.10.06
Tipping the Balance to Tell the Secret

Child Witness Project (1995)
This study examined over 500 cases of child sexual abuse to investigate the process of how the abuse was discovered by adults and reported to police. The report includes a literature review and a qualitative analysis of interviews with 135 children and teenagers: who told right away and why, who delayed telling, what happened to them, why didn't they tell, and how was the abuse finally discovered? We also asked the children about the role of school programs in their decisions to disclose or not disclose. A statistical model was developed to discriminate immediate disclosers from delayed disclosers. For example, children at risk for on-going abuse included those who experienced pre-abuse grooming, had been young at the time of first sexual contact and who were abused in their homes by someone they lived with and to whom they were emotionally close. The children offered nine recommendations to schools to improve their sexual abuse prevention programs. On the basis of study findings, the research team offered eight observations about the weaknesss of programs and recommend modifications to increase their effectiveness at encouraging disclosures from children.
 
 
Unconditional Love
11:32 / 14.10.06
Incidently go to google video and enter a search for scientology and child abuse or paedophiles.
 
 
redtara
23:34 / 16.10.06
I think this thread may have reached a natural conclusion. I have just reread it and wanted to make some points for 'the record.'

I don't think anyone has stated anywhere that anyone should be dismissed when coming forward with accusations of abuse sexual or otherwise.

In the original thread that sparked this one, over in stupid questions there were a great many very useful links to material that gave historical insight into events that took place in the US and UK throughout the 80s and 90s. The debate has been about these events specifically and the material that certain psychologists have made their reputations on. That satanic cults were responsible for hundreds of cases of abuse and murder. Their case has been extensivley shown to have been elaborated if not fabricated by social workers and psychologists who had a misconception about the scale and practices of satanists in thier communities and mishandled these cases as a result.

The difficulty of using recovered memories in other abuse cases has been acknowledged but no one, even those who have survived devastating experience of these problems, has dismissed anyone pursuing recovery from remembered abuse.

The discussion never touched on the ability of peodophiles to organise, atain public office and subsequently use their position to protect themselves and their groups. Their resourcefulness or immorality was not up for discusion as general peodopholia was not part of the debate and would be unlikely to have been questioned if it had been.

Frank Fress and Slackula, you are not experiencing any engagement on your broadened debate, I think, because the discussion was always about recovered memory and organised peodophilia in the context of Satanism, in all other respects you are preaching to the choir.
 
 
ghadis
00:11 / 17.10.06
Redtara..

I think this thread may have reached a natural conclusion.

I don't think it has at all. I think it is a facinating subject that can, and will, engage people in this area in the future. It draws out very personal and emotional feelings (definatly for myself, and to be honest i've found somethings tricky) and engages with an outer idea of 'the occult' in society.
 
 
ghadis
00:18 / 17.10.06
Frank Fress and Slackula, you are not experiencing any engagement on your broadened debate, I think, because the discussion was always about recovered memory and organised peodophilia in the context of Satanism, in all other respects you are preaching to the choir.

And maybe, because it was the weekend. Barbelith slows down a lot at the weekend i've found.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
04:32 / 17.10.06
redtara
I also think this thread has potentially more mileage, if only because I recall the Satanic Child Abuse moral panic very well - I was co-editing a pagan zine at the time and we spent four years or so writing about the various cases and media flaps - plus the occasional "firebombing" of occult shops, etc.

I watched the "Conspiracy of Silence" video - whose central message seemed to be that a cover-up was going on and that government bodies - police & FBI - were actively silencing witnesses and not taking abuse claims seriously. But this is precisely what did not happen in the SCA cases in the UK and USA. Social Services and Police were - particularly in the Orkneys case - later criticised for being over-zealous.In the Nottingham case (see link to JET report. above), 10 adults were charged with 53 offences of incest, indecent assault and cruelty against the 21 children in their extended family - the most serious case in Britain to date of multi-generational familial sexual abuse - and it was only after the children were taken into care that the "satanic" element emerged.
 
 
Unconditional Love
06:28 / 17.10.06
Perhaps this thread would have a broader remit if it were to consider all forms of religous child abuse, was anybody as horrified as i was by the panarama take on the behaviour of the catholic church, with regard to its neigh on 20-30 year policy of shuffling priests around, and do nothing to help the victims, but offering to help pay them off. A policy enforced directly by the current pope.
 
 
Unconditional Love
06:43 / 17.10.06
Some figures estimate that 1 in 4 adult males have been abused sexually before age 18, and 1 in 3 females sexually abused before age 18. So what if 25% of the male population of the uk and 33% of the female population of the uk were to understand that they had the right to demand justice, that there could be no silence anylonger, no offical cover ups, that those that perpetuate abuse need to be brought to trial.

That those that peddle a safe fantastic form of loving child rape need to be held accountable for what they are doing, if its posssible. William burroughs, Allen ginsberg, hakim bey,etc etc. Child rape is not a civil liberties issue, its a taking liberties from children issue.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:05 / 17.10.06
Perhaps this thread would have a broader remit if it were to consider all forms of religous child abuse

No, I think it should focus on the Satanic Panic myself. They are two seperate issues. One, organised ritual Satanic abuse, is a non-existant phenomenon made up by fundies and quack therapists, supported by no evidence whatsoever. The other, abuse of children in a Christian religious context, is an entirely real and sadly ongoing phenomenon supported by enormous amounts of evidence. We could have another thread on that but I'd like to see this one focusing on RSA.
 
 
Quantum
13:54 / 17.10.06
Exactly as Heart Wreathed In Flame says, I think there's plenty to say about recovered memory being used to prosecute, to repeat the last part of xk's extract;
Efforts to act upon memories from therapy as if they were literal history are problematic.

The wider issues of child abuse can have a thread or several of their own in the Headshop or Switchboard for example. I fundraise for Childline and would be interested in assessing people's perceptions of the problem. For example, the idea that most abuse is by powerful people in institutions doesn't hold up- it's most often family members or friends of family, the predatory paedo stalking playgrounds is largely the modern bogeyman.
Which is why I'm interested in the satanic panic, whipping up the public into a terrified frenzy about a nonexistent threat makes me suspicious that many other things are being ignored or swept under the carpet, it's like intitutionalised misdirection. Never mind the huge problem of real abuse, look at the devil worshippers! Look!
 
  
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