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* Autism/Asperger's syndrome

 
  

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Ethan Hawke
12:44 / 19.12.01
Studies show the rates of autism in California's tech communities are increasing at an alarming rate. Asperger's syndrome is defined as:

children who lack basic social and motor skills, seem unable to decode body language and sense the feelings of others, avoid eye contact, and frequently launch into monologues about narrowly defined - and often highly technical - interests.

Here's another choice quote from the article:

Nick is building a universe on his computer. He's already mapped out his first planet: an anvil-shaped world called Denthaim that is home to gnomes and gods, along with a three-gendered race known as kiman. As he tells me about his universe, Nick looks up at the ceiling, humming fragments of a melody over and over. "I'm thinking of making magic a form of quantum physics, but I haven't decided yet, actually," he explains

Damn, if the interests of children with asperger's syndromes aren't the same as the interests of people on this site...building universe, gender-fuck, magic as a form of science...

Full article here - "the geek syndrome"
 
 
Foxxy Feminist Fury
15:10 / 19.12.01
I dunno. My brother has autism and I know he could never put up with this site.

There has been some research into autism lately that I think is really going to lead somewhere. It's very exciting (to me!).

They ARE having a hard time pin-pointing an "autism gene," I know that. There are cases where one identical twin has autism and one doesn't. Which I think doesn't necessarily rule out a gene mutation, but it does indicate something in the environment fostering the development of autism.

I've heard some weird things - like apparently children born in March are consistently more likely to have autism (and that is when my brother's birthday is).

Thanks for the link.
 
 
Ria
16:05 / 19.12.01
I often feel like mass culture has autism.

if you think about it some people have defined autism as "masculine" qualities in extremis and... does that back up what I say?
 
 
gentleman loser
22:39 / 27.12.01
Did anyone take the AQ test?

In the first major trial using the test, the average score in the control group was 16.4. Eighty percent of those diagnosed with autism or a related disorder scored 32 or higher.

I scored a 40!
 
 
Cherry Bomb
15:55 / 28.12.01
You could have asperger's that's never been diagnosed. Or not.

Me, I scored a 9, but I all ready knew I was pretty much the opposite of autistic. My little brother has had his birthday (March 3) planned since the early summer, and when I said to him, "Don't you think you might change your mind about what you want to do between now and then?" He looked at me like I was crazy and just answered, "No," to which I replied, "Well, I guess that is an advantage of being autistic, as you can plan this far in advance..."
 
 
Persephone
17:59 / 28.12.01
Whoo, 31, that was close.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
19:17 / 28.12.01
(Disclaimer: I know extremely little about this subject and am, therefore, probably talking rubbish here. Again.)

There was a programme on UK telly a few months ago about autism, and idiot savants in particular, that claimed that the potential for genius that's observed in some autistics ('some' being the operative word here) exists within us all. Autism, the claim goes, is a result of the brain's inability to cope with a number of things at one time, instead focussing all its energies and attentions into one area. The brain usually filters out tiny details that it considers unnecessary to everyday functioning. In autistics, this filter is broken. It's like a kind of mental overload; all the smallest details of life are fed in, creating a short circuit. This is (supposedly) why a small number of autistics are able to produce work of such detail in a specific field. Which, when you think about it, makes you wonder if some of history's great geniuses may have been slightly autistic.

Experiments were carried out on non-autistics where a specific area of the brain - identified as being fairly or wholly inactive in idiot savants - was 'frozen' via laser treatment. The subject subsequently displayed improved talents in one area of mental ability. The area of improvement differed with the guinea-pig; some showed a previously unobserved ability to manipulate numbers, others produced works of art that they would previously have been unable to create.

Autism was also linked to sufferers of senility, with the observation that senility can bring previously hidden talents to the fore in much the same way as autism, whilst also having the same negative effects.

In the usual fashion, though, I've forgotten what the programme was and who the scientists making the claims were. I'm also entirely unable to find any relevant links. Bah.

[ 28-12-2001: Message edited by: Extremely Restrained Dupre ]
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
19:54 / 30.12.01
35? 35? WTF?
 
 
Ganesh
23:38 / 30.12.01
Although the article repeatedly stresses that the supposed skyrocketing of autism cases isn't due to "better diagnostics", there is always a large degree of inter-tester variation when it comes to interpreting such "fuzzy" criteria. Additionally, autism, like depression, anorexia or alcoholism is a spectrum disorder rather than an all-or-none phenomenon (like, say, cancer) - and it's consequently difficult to say exactly where to draw the dividing line between 'normal' and 'disordered'. It's possible - indeed likely - that individuals can exhibit "autistic traits" without actually being clinically autistic. Cultural norms play a part too, and I'll admit that I'm always a little suspicious that these sorts of disorders always seem to show exponential increases in the US, particularly the therapy-friendly West Coast...

Opinions have always fluctuated over the core features of childhood autism, but it's now generally agreed that three features are essential to the diagnosis: a general and profound failure to develop social relationships (including early failure to smile, avoidance of eye-contact or facial expression, rarely seeking interaction/comfort from others, lack of empathy or co-operative play); language retardation (50% of autistic children never develop language, and a varied range of more subtle abnormalities is common); and ritualistic and compulsive behaviour (rigid/restricted patterns of play, intense attachments to unusual objects such as stones, unusual preoccupations and attachments (bus timetables, etc.), marked resistance to any change in environment or daily routine).

To meet criteria for true autism, these should really be observed before three years of age. Autism diagnosed in adulthood is more likely to represent autistic traits, the extremely mild end of the spectrum or OCD/obsessionality in general. The idiot-savant thing is extremely rare.

Oh yeah, and I scored 11.
 
 
Thjatsi
08:35 / 31.12.01
I got 29 and I know one person with a doctorate in psychology who thinks I have mild aspergers syndrome.
 
 
RadioEdit
12:51 / 31.12.01
33. Hardly a surprise.

While I don't feel like I am as bad as Milton in "Office Space", I definately have issues in this area.

Maybe I am not an Idiot Savant. Just half way there: Idiot.

[ 31-12-2001: Message edited by: RadioEdit ]
 
 
Sax
13:03 / 31.12.01
I got a 9. I do know someone who has autism - he's about 40 and quite capable in social situations, but he's never, ever learned to read or write properly. However, play cards or dominoes with him and you've no chance - he can add up the spots on a hand of dominoes as quickly as looking at them, but if you asked him to add up a string of numbers, or even a handful of beans, he'd just look blankly at you.
 
 
Cherry Bomb
13:29 / 31.12.01
'Nesh, you make a very good point. I've wondered about that myself - if it's simply more narrow diagnosis, which surely in some cases it is.

My little brother has a full vocab and he can definitely hold a conversation with you (and make you laugh as well; no member of my family has ever been born without the 'jokester gene' and he does wickedly right on impersonations of actors and people we know) but often the conversation will be about "What roads did you take to get here?" because roads are one of his big obsessions. (Movies, music and "ladies" being the other three) Also his handwriting, though he is 18, is about at the level of a five-year-old.

It's great driving with him 'cuz you'll never get lost. But with him he very much wants to be part of the social circle and just has a hard time making that happen properly. At Christmas he was so happy that my other two brothers and me were home (he's the youngest and the rest of us are outta there) he was trying to connect with us so we were all in his room and he spent about an hour sharing one of his "tapes" with us = which basically consisted of him fast-forwarding and old videotape to show of his collection of 80s commercials.

Goofy.

My brothers and I just teased him, which my Mom hates but we feel if we did not hassle our youngest brother we would be treating him as if were "abnormal" and he would be missing out on the hassling that all younger siblings "deserve" at the hands of their elders.
 
 
netbanshee
14:30 / 31.12.01
My brother has Asperger's and I can see the genetic leads passing from my father to him and a bit to me quite easily. Focus has always seemed to be one of those things that either encompasses us or eludes us. Keeps the girlfriend frustrated sometimes.

And as far as...

quote:Which, when you think about it, makes you wonder if some of history's great geniuses may have been slightly autistic.

If I can find the name of the book, I'll post it; read a little on how Thomas Jefferson seemed to have it...amongst other abnormalities...interesting stuff...
 
 
Ria
17:19 / 31.12.01
Ganesh, I will go on one of my anti-psychiatry diatribes... IMHO if you re-label depression as pessimism it explains it better.
 
 
RadioEdit
12:43 / 06.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Ria:
Ganesh, I will go on one of my anti-psychiatry diatribes... IMHO if you re-label depression as pessimism it explains it better.


ooh, hang on..

<OFFTOPIC ALERT>

If you do that you trivialize depression, and (worse) if you take that stand you give others who want the opportunity the ability to trivialize depression.

It's hard enough living with it without having another fucking person saying "cheer up, you just need an attitude adjustment and your life will be better. See the glass as half full, not half empty!". If I could see the glass AT ALL this would be a moot point. I have severe depression and am constantly dealing with this sort of "snap out of it" attitude from well-intentioned people. It's really tedious.

After 20 years of experience with the psychiatric profession, I have nothing good to say about it either. If I somehow misunderstood the above statement I need enlightenment. I didn't see anything in Ganesh's statement which prompted it so I am having trouble seeing the through line.

There may be some history behind the response I am unaware of.

</OFFTOPIC ALERT>

[ 06-01-2002: Message edited by: RadioEdit ]
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
13:00 / 06.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Ria:
Ganesh, I will go on one of my anti-psychiatry diatribes... IMHO if you re-label depression as pessimism it explains it better.


What exactly do you mean by depression in this context, Ria? If you're referring to the colloquial use of the word then maybe pessimism is a componant, but if you're referring to the psychiatric illness then I'm afraid "pessimism" doesn't really cover it. In my depressive days, pessimism would actually have been an improvement.
 
 
Ria
18:23 / 06.01.02
I mean in both contexts. sorry to hear this. I have had the same problem. when you felt (or feel) this way did you feel optimistic? I know it sounds like a silly question. call it "severe pessimism" then instead of coloquail pessimism but the disease notion seems to me to cut out the person and their consciousness as part of the loop.

maybe we could simply accept that we have different views rather than arguing over semantics?

in other words I feel worn out (and today in particular) with the back and forth of views as to traditional psychiatry. as I may have mentioned above I have done it a lot.

[ 06-01-2002: Message edited by: Ria ]
 
 
ibis the being
15:09 / 06.04.05
Damn, if the interests of children with asperger's syndromes aren't the same as the interests of people on this site...building universe, gender-fuck, magic as a form of science...


I often feel like mass culture has autism.


I think these impressions are fairly common, but I don't think it's constructive or accurate to characterize Autism or AS as merely quirky.

I once lived with a roommate who had Asperger's, and though that's the mild form of Autism, it wasn't just as though he was a little "odd" or nerdy. He had trouble recognizing physical boundaries & personal space, so for instance would just walk into my room unannounced; he didn't understand figurative speech and a lot of slang as well; he couldn't read body language at all, nor could he pick up any information from tone of voice; and there was no flow to conversation with him - it was very stilted and (from my POV) awkward. Those traits were pronounced enough that before I learned he had AS I was really baffled and put off. Had I never learned he had AS our stint as roommates could be been tense & unpleasant. But once I understood AS, I was able to adjust. I avoided using figures of speech, spoke more clearly about any issues with rent and bills or whatnot, and was patient with his conversational pace, and we got along well.

It's not that people with Autism/AS just don't like social interaction or are intimidated by it, or whatever, it's that they (usually) don't understand it. People with AS, for example, often don't like sitcoms because the social relationships are completely lost on them. Imagine not being able to read body language or tone of voice at all, and you'll see what a markedly different experience that is even for someone with very mild Autism or Aspergers - it's more than just being a geek or an eccentric.
 
 
astrojax69
22:24 / 06.04.05
i scored 9...

spatula, there is a bit of research currently underway into accessing nonconscious skills in the mind - allan snyder proposed in nature [and elsewhere] that we all possess the sort of processing capacities evident in savants (not all savants are autistic - there are cases of acquired savants; and bruce miller works with dementia patients who, for a phase of their slide into never never can exhibit latent skills associated with savants). he has since used magnetic pulse stimulation (rTMS - repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation) to turn off the frontotemporal lobe to turn on these hidden skills.

basically he is saying that we see what we know because we are hard wired to form concepts and so see the world from within these concepts. it is most useful to have a concept, say of a lion or a bus, to induce an automatic response to, for example, run away! but it is hard to really see what is actually out there. so we may find it hard to draw, because we impose our concept on what we are 'seeing', but a savant is 'seeing' the horse, or building, or whatever for the first time, every time! they lack concepts. they subsequently seem to have privileged access to nonconscious skills latent in us all...

here is the link to his centre's publications. the 'what's hot' page on this site has links to articles on this subject, including some recent ones from the UK where roger highfield wrote on TMS (this was in the london telegraph).


there is yet debate among the fabulous minds working in this area about what autism actually is, though the range of theories revolves around it being some sort of protracted infancy. new borns lack concepts, so see the world as it really is. we think our maturing minds are more 'correct' and better, but in some ways they are second to the real world view that infants enjoy...

for a wonderful account of some aspects of autism, temple grandin's book 'animals in translation' is wonderful. also, a recent australian adolescent book prize winner is mark haddon's 'the curious incident of the dog in the nighttime'. this shows the world from a young autistic boy's perspective and is very insightful. oliver sacks, of coutse, writes on autism and savants, best known through the film rainman from his book 'awakenings'.


(i admit a bit of interest here - i work for allan snyder at the centre for the mind)


this is a rich area for exploration about what is is to be human. autism, especially savants, provide us with critical insights into the workings of the mind.
 
 
Spaniel
12:11 / 08.04.05
A ten for me
 
 
Katherine
12:19 / 08.04.05
44
 
 
A0S
12:46 / 08.04.05
37
 
 
netbanshee
01:37 / 11.04.05
I'm a 26.

Nice to see that the conversation has been brought up again. Now that it's some years later, I've been able to better grasp my brother's behavior and appreciate it for what it is. Now that he's about to finish high school and step up into college (with a nice scholarship, mind you) I've seen him grow with Asperger's and learn to cope with some of the social parts of it he can. My household also much more tolerant and less defensive about it since we can all see how he might do as life throws more issues his way.

I think that there might be a perceived inclination towards these tendencies in certain parts of society, but when you've lived around it, you can definitely see the distinctions. I'm sure that the major contributing factor is the regional clumping you see around industries that needs skill sets with people of a certain mindset and aptitude (Silicon Valley, for example).
 
 
Katherine
05:45 / 11.04.05
Funnily enough I did get a lot of families come in with children with autism in the area I used to work. It was the type of area a lot of people who work in London move to as it's an easy commute to the city.

[off topic]I hate it though when people don't tell you when it is quite useful to know. For example I'm a photographer and it's happened more than once that I wasn't told. Now, not normally a problem but when posing people especially children my job does involve touching people mainly to get them sitting, standing how you want. Parent watch me pose one child but don't tell me that one of their children doesn't like being touched, in fact ended up with one child screaming and punching out. The really annoying part is when I'm told 'it's not your fault he's autistic'
Thank you for that but if I was told I can get around it. Why can't some people tell you? [/off topic]
 
 
eye landed
10:21 / 11.04.05
speaking as a psychologist, that test was very crappy. i got a 22.

archraven, i dont think that was off topic. autism is tricky. seen as an illness, a parent might not want to reveal it. would you expect to be told if a client was schizophrenic or an alcoholic? or if somebody had athletes foot or irritable bowel syndrome?

im not drawing parallels, because a clients autism affects you in a way that their psoriasis doesnt. its similar to being blind or deaf, but the sense thats impaired is a metasense. its a difference in the way sensory information is processed rather than how it is gathered.

anything to do with the brain is difficult to define (thats why i am fascinated by psychology). at what point does a photographer need to be told a child has autism? what if the kid is just weird? maybe he doesnt like to be touched, but its not because of autism, its because hes been sexually abused. a parent might feel uncomfortable labelling their child for a stranger, even if you are a professional and its relevant information.

since you are the professional, its up to you to solve the problem rather than complain about your paying customers. dont you interview your client at all beforehand? you could discover autism, adhd, and who knows what else that way, as well as your clients colour preferences and how many prints they want to order, all of which seems like relevant information.

~~~

a peripheral friend told me he has aspergers syndrome in the same way someone might tell me they have a swimming pool. he claimed to be more highly evolved, or at least better adapted to this computer-and-hobby-club society. i told him i thought it was cruel to attach the name 'ass burger' to people who are already geekier than average.
 
 
Jack Vincennes
11:00 / 11.04.05
archraven -I think there's also the fact that many parents don't want their child to be labelled as 'different' from an early age, and so might not want to make it plain to the kid that they do have Asperger's -they feel that their child (assuming high-functioning autism, here) might fare better, and make more of an effort to 'fit in' if they didn't label themselves as autistic all the time they were growing up. I've spoken to a couple of parents of autistic children (as part of a high school project, so it's not like I have vast reservoirs of knowledge on the topic) and they all seemed to take the view that it was better to explain the condition (possibly the wrong word) when their kid could actually understand what it meant, and identify when their behaviours sprang from autism and when they were 'just being naughty'. Not sure what I think of that as a way of dealing with it -does anyone else have ideas about that?
 
 
Katherine
11:15 / 11.04.05
[quote]autism is tricky. seen as an illness, a parent might not want to reveal it. would you expect to be told if a client was schizophrenic or an alcoholic? or if somebody had athletes foot or irritable bowel syndrome?[/quote]

[quote]ou are the professional, its up to you to solve the problem rather than complain about your paying customers. dont you interview your client at all beforehand? you could discover autism, adhd, and who knows what else that way, as well as your clients colour preferences and how many prints they want to order, all of which seems like relevant information.[/quote]

Actually people do usually inform us if there a relevant problem. When people book a session I go though what happens during it. It is explained that in some cases I will help a child/adult to move in the right position etc.

It is usual for things to be bought up for example if a child is deaf or part-sighted. These things are on a general check list but due to way in which this industry is I have to approach the subject carefully. Yes, ok I admit in 99% of the time I can tell if something is up. But what about the 1%?
 
 
Katherine
11:20 / 11.04.05
And to the above I would like to add, some children like some adults are uncomfortable with being touched.

In cases like this I have been told beforehand and not in front of the individual that they don't like being touched, during the sitting I will stick to this.

I don't know why unless someone wants to tell me and I don't need to know reasons.
 
 
Jack Vincennes
11:21 / 11.04.05
(Offtopic)

When people book a session I go though what happens during it.

Ah right -in that case my reply makes very little sense, for some reason I thought that people would just turn up on the day.

(I thought clearly being a bit of an exaggeration in this case)
 
 
Katherine
11:23 / 11.04.05
My fault, some studio will do sittings for people who just turn up. Ours doesn't but I should have stated that. Sorry for any confusion.
 
 
astrojax69
23:33 / 11.04.05
this links page seems to have some interesting accounts of life with autism / aspergers, if people want to see it from the inside.


i don't think you did much wrong, archraven. as a fellow photographer, i sympathise with you - you can't be expected to get a full medical and life history of everyone and every thing you shoot. we don't expect salespeople to have this level of knowledge before they come up and say 'hi, can i help you?', do we? and the broad range of behavioural traits of these conditions means it is unlikely that even a care specialist will be able to incorporate all they need to know to handle a patient in a few moments' conversation... don't sweat it!

still, i bet you now find ways to elicit this kind of info as a matter of course. funny thing, hindsight; eh?
 
 
Katherine
06:11 / 12.04.05
still, i bet you now find ways to elicit this kind of info as a matter of course. funny thing, hindsight; eh?

This customer resisted all attempts to get any information from them. The father has broke his back a while ago and found it uncomfortable to sit on the floor yet when I asked I was told there was no problems with sitting on the floor etc. It's pretty standard to ask about any problems which could change the nature of the shoot.

Thankfully this is not a common problem, a majority of people will tell you during the phone call before the appointment if there is anything I should know. The hardest appointment ever was one where the child had a heart defect and I was told that too much excitement wasn't good.
 
 
astrojax69
04:06 / 13.05.05

a good overview of aspergers is here

there is currently, too, research going on to look at the mechanisms underpinning the seeming superiority of the left brain in how we navigate our world through concepts. i'll post something in a new thread as i get more stuff in. all related, of course. isn't the brain marvellous?
 
 
alejandrodelloco
00:54 / 17.05.05
An interesting theory I remember reading: The recent rise in Asperger's/Autism can be linked to, of all things, internet dating networks. The whole idea is that it gets nerds, who already exhibit some of these traits, breeding, thus having a brood of socially inept podlings.

I don't personally buy it because it doesn't explain a lot of things, like the environmental causes of autism, but nevertheless interesting...
 
  

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