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The Lancet reports on Iraqi civilian casualties

 
 
Francine I
01:29 / 12.10.06
The Lancet has produced a study estimating that approximately 655,000 civilians have died in Iraq. This is 13.45 times larger than the number given by the Iraq Body Count - a number that is already unacceptable and represents to me a total disregard for human life, or worse, a passion for bringing it to an early end. The person who led the study - Gilbert Burnham - says that the actual death toll is "between 400,000 and 900,000". Predictably, Bush thinks the whole thing is rubbish.

I don't have a lot of value to add yet, but I'm hoping others have something constructive to say. Right now, my head and my heart are screaming "genocide" very loudly.
 
 
ghadis
01:38 / 12.10.06
Right now, my head and my heart are screaming "genocide" very loudly.

Whilst it is a very horrific and ugly situation, i'm not sure that "genocide" is really the right word that your organs are telling you.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
05:56 / 12.10.06
"Atrocity" would be a nice fit, though.
 
 
Pingle!Pop
07:03 / 12.10.06
Okay... a little more on the numbers of this and the vast incompetence of every media outlet I've seen this in. (BBC radio 6 last night introduced the report as a news story and said nothing more than, "Well, the Iraq Body Count site says this, and they're an anti-war site, so this must be completely wrong.")

So, courtesy on Lenin's Tomb around this time last year, there's an extensive post on the previous Lancet study (which used the same techniques), and how it compared to other reports on the toll of the invasion.

First, then, why is the alleged contradiction between the Iraq Body Count's figures and the Lancet Report's actually just utter rubbish? From the creators of Iraq Body Count themselves:

We are not a news organization ourselves and like everyone else can only base our information on what has been reported so far. What we are attempting to provide is a credible compilation of civilian deaths that have been reported by recognized sources. Our maximum therefore refers to reported deaths - which can only be a sample of true deaths unless one assumes that every civilian death has been reported. It is likely that many if not most civilian casualties will go unreported by the media. That is the sad nature of war. (Quick-FAQ)

Further, as per the Lenin's Tomb post:

But did the IBC’s findings actually conflict with those of the Lancet study? The Lancet measured ‘excess deaths’ – that is, it measured the approximate number of deaths that occurred post-invasion that would not have occurred had the invasion not taken place – it says: the occupation is this much more brutal than Saddam was in his last years. This happens to be a common method of studying deaths in war and under authoritarian regimes, and it certainly accounts for the bulk of deaths attributed to monsters like Stalin and Pol Pot

This is repeated for every other major report released on the toll; basically, none of the numbers are particularly out of line with one another - indeed they tend to corroborate each other - but they're just measuring different things. And while it's important to have a count directly attributable to "coalition" violence (albeit one that inherently under-reports due to its reliance on news sources), I tend to agree with Lenin that the more important figure is: this many people have died because you invaded Iraq.

The whole post's worth reading, for a thorough debunking of everything the pro-war team said about the report (and have been saying about the new one). Also particularly of note is that Fallujah was left out of the original report, making the estimate particularly conservative. There's also a link in a further post to Andrew Cockburn at Counterpunch, pointing out the problems of that 95% confidence interval - in reality, the total is much more likely to be vastly higher than much lower.

Of course, the only number the American media seem to care much about anyway is 2754 - the number of American troops killed.

Sigh.
 
 
Francine I
14:08 / 12.10.06
"Whilst it is a very horrific and ugly situation, i'm not sure that 'genocide' is really the right word that your organs are telling you."

Unfortunately, a little bit of a moveable feast. Genocide is defined as "The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group." here, so the bone of contention is whether or not we can say that it's planned. I would argue that it's unlikely the major forces behind the invasion and occupation could be unaware of the probable results of their actions, which leaves me inclined to believe that this is, in fact, deliberate. Not gas chambers, but not a mistake. Having said that, I tend to agree with the member who suggested "atrocity" as a word that would generate less controversy while defining well what's happening in Iraq.

But what word would you use to describe it?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:27 / 12.10.06
I watched a Mark Fiore cartoon about Darfur, which has pretty much placed the phrase "indiscriminate killing" irrevocably in my head.
 
 
SteppersFan
15:10 / 16.10.06
I thought you might be interested in a little detail about these numbers and the methodology used in the Lancet study, since Bush et al have rubbished them. The information is
from Eric Herring, an acquaintance of mine who is a well respected writer on arms control, WMD and some related aspects of Iraq (though not all issues of Iraq). He posted about this on the UK-Dance forum.

Burnham et al in the Lancet say 601,000 violent deaths with 95% confidence of 426,369 to 793,663 up to July 2006. While Bush et al have asserted that the methodology is bad, it's actually rigourous: multi-stage sampling. They identified 50 "clusters" across the country within the 18 Governorates, chosen on the basis of a ratio to population (e.g. Baghdad had 12 of the 50 samples because this is in proportion to its population size as a Governorate within the country). This "systematic sampling" process was then repeated within each Governorate, so that certain localised
administrative units were chosen as the researchable clusters, again on the basis of being the correct ratio to overall population (this time within the Governorate). These 50 clusters were then subjected to a third stage of sampling where each main street in each cluster unit was identified - as was each street that intersected it - and a random sample of the intersecting streets was chosen. Finally, at a fourth level of reduction, each street was randomly sampled by household.

This extrapolation is founded on solid field research. In terms of sample size we're talking about interviews with
12,801 individuals, visits to 1,849 households and - this is crucial - verficiation of actual deaths provided by 302 death certificates. This sounds - and is - very, very rigorous. They have geographically widespread, on-the-ground sampling of real, war-produced violent deaths with good a basis for extrapolating from the samples to their estimates of deaths.

However, there is another criticism of the survey - that the pre-war baseline deaths per population in Iraq are lower than the UK. According to The Lancet article, "pre-invasion mortality rates in Iraq were 5·5 per 1000 people". For comparison, in 2000, the mortality rate in the US was 8.8 per 1,000 (source: US Centre for Disease Control and Prevention), and in North West England, the mortality rate was 10.7 (source: NSO). However, apparently, it is reasonable to expect Iraqi mortality to have been lower than in the US because of the US' older population and higher incidence of obesity, heart failure etc.

Finally, Bush and co refuse to take on the point that the uncertainties of extrapolation could mean that the figures are HIGHER - and the 95% confidence interval of this study goes to 793,000, far beyond the existing estimate of 600,000. Taking the lowest figure in their confidence interval of 426,369 deaths over three and a half years, that's about 334 deaths a day nationwide every day since the invasion (say 500 a day for their most likely estimate of 600,000 violent deaths).

Hope this provides some useful ammunition...
 
 
quixote
22:23 / 16.10.06
I'm not a statistician, but I did have a stat class,and, as a biologist, I've used statistics for my whole professional life. All you need to understand the Lancet numbers is a bit of basic statistics.

The crucial part is this: there is 95% confidence that somewhere between 393,000 and 943,000 excess deaths from all causes have occurred due to the occupation. (The commenter above has a narrower range, but my reading of the Lancet article says the wider range is the actual 95% CI. I may have misread it.) This means there is a one in twenty chance that the true number of excess deaths is "only", say, 350,000 or more than a million. There is a high degree of certainty about the range. The midpoint, 655,000, is the likeliest true number, but that is far less certain.

95% confidence intervals are the measure of significance in all medical and biological research. If you don't want to accept these statistics, you can't accept any of the studies done in biomedicine.

The very broad range of numbers estimating the true number of excess deaths is due to the uncertainties of sampling and all the rest of it. The uncertainty most people are carping about has been figured into the study.

The Iraq Body Count has only those deaths reported in the media and directly attributable to coalition actions. So the baby who died on the way to hospital because the ambulance was shot at is not counted. The Lancet study estimated from a sample count how many people have died since 2003. It doesn't matter what they died of. The assumption is that "normal" deaths would have been the same before and after the beginning of the war, and that any excess is due to the war. Since death rates under normal circumstances vary with demographics, and do not spike up and down randomly, that is a safe assumption.

To me, the really interesting question about the reaction to the Lancet study is the instant denial by people who don't seem to begin to understand either epidemiological or statistical methods. You don't see them denying the results when the same methods are applied to estimate Darfur casualties. But, of course, they don't feel as responsible for those.
 
 
quixote
22:25 / 16.10.06
(P.S. I have a bit more about the statistics in my post on the topic.)
 
 
redtara
22:44 / 16.10.06
I would be happy to go with genocide.

The US forces swept through Iraq with an agenda that could be summed up as 'shoot first, ask questions later'. As a result there were a great many incidents where vehicles carrying civilians and often children where fired upon as they approached road blocks, just in case they turned out to be paramilitary forces.

A straight choice was made. A campaign that would minimise the deaths of US personnel, no matter what the cost to the civilian population was felt to be more politicaly expedient than a light hand that might expose the US forces to more danger but would minimise the chances of civilian harm.

The political expediency was based on the relative value of American and Iraqi lives as markers of success within US politics and media. The US and UK invaded a sovereign state against international law.

Yes, genocide works for me.
 
 
ghadis
23:40 / 16.10.06
Apart from that it is not only US and UK troops that are killing people. It is a bit more complicated that that.

Sorry, 'Genocide' is not really doing it for me. 'Atrocity' yes. 'Genocide' no.
 
 
ghadis
23:46 / 16.10.06
Unless my idea of what 'Genocide' means is wrong?
 
 
Francine I
00:03 / 17.10.06
Thanks to all who contributed assistance with the analysis of statistics and methods. It's enlightening.

I suppose, ghadis, that there's room to move in all of this. I don't expect that calling this genocide is going to meet with universal agreement, but I do think it's fair. If this sort of activity continues for another ten years, we're looking at civilian casualties numbering roughly 1.8 to 3.6 million. I think there's a significance in the willingness to casually murder half a million or more unarmed people. Granted, it sounds like the methods used for data gathering don't do a lot to filter out the possibility of some of these people being armed, but we can figure that most of them weren't.
 
 
ghadis
00:49 / 17.10.06
Ok, as horrific as it is, and whilst i do agree with the 'atrocity' label, and agree that what is going on in Iraq is horriying.

I still don't agree with the 'Genocide' label. (and i'm sorry if this is rotting the thread).

Thousands upon thousands of people being killed is not always 'Genocide'. That can be War. The War, of course is on fucking dodgy ground.

A systematic destruction and wiping out of a certain race or religious people by others with purpose is 'Genocide'

I really don't think that what is happening in Iraq is 'Genocide'.

I'm actually quite pissed off that people on Barbelith are actually equating the two.
 
 
ghadis
01:17 / 17.10.06
But i realise that i'm not contributing much to this thread apart from arguing a semantic idea over the word 'Genocide'.

So i wanted to thanks Frankly for your links , and pointing me to some very interesting places.
 
 
redtara
22:00 / 23.10.06
The meaning of Genocide includes the general 'mass murder' as well as the more specific 'ethnic cleansing' that saw the word used to describe what happened when Rwanda imploded or Yugoslavia fell apart as well as, of course, the Jewish Holocaust.

I don't think it deminishes these events to draw attention to the cynical choice made by the American military to minimise troop calualties at the cost of Iraqi lives, so as to make caution in the midst of a civilian population counter productive. The choice was so clearly made and not challenged, because of the racial pecking order that exists in the perceived value of human life. I think their policy would have been harder to justify if the population had been European.

As an aside to this there is the question of Suni/Shia conflict that has erupted and is developing along racial lines with who knows how much energy until it burns itself out. This is a direct result of the illegal aggression and those governments who have taken part in destablising Iraq must take some of the responsibility.
 
  
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