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Ritual Forms of Ancestor Reverence

 
  

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EmberLeo
22:27 / 11.10.06
I'm trying to put together a reasonable multi-cultural understandings of the forms of Ancestor Reverence in a practical sense. I'm not per se looking for the relative values of the perspectives behind them, although that's okay to - what I'm looking for is information on the rituals themselves. Preferably rituals you folks have some personal experience with. Even non-traditional rituals, stuff you've found helpful in your own practice is of interest to me.

It's becoming increasingly obvious that this is an area I need to work on.

I have participated repeatedly in the Heathen tradition of Winternights and Disirblot, where we gather around and each in turn honor our (respectively) male and female ancestors of the blood, heart, mind, or spirit - the primary requirement is that they be folks who have actually lived, and who are actually dead.

I'm already peripherally aware of things like Dia De Los Muertos and Dumb Suppers, but more information there is quite welcome, along with whatever else.

--Ember--
 
 
grant
17:37 / 12.10.06
Pouring libations is big in some cultures -- the African diaspora. I think I've seen it among urban African-Americans, even -- spilling a bit of whatever you're drinking on the ground for someone who's gone.

Something about that always reminds me of the cup you pour for Elijah at a seder.
 
 
Ticker
18:19 / 12.10.06
When I drink anything alcoholic I leave some in the glass for my Dead and my Gods.

I have an altar in my house specificly for one group of my Beloved dead. I just cleaned and spruced it up a bit for this month. It's in the kitchen so I interact with it almost everyday. It was pretty clutterd up with stuffs!

At any family dinner we leave a special place for our ancestors (including the family pets). Often we place photographs at the table setting which helps non family guests identify what's up with the empty seat. The place setting at my wedding was pretty elaborate and my spouse's family was very into being invited to include their photos.

For Samhain I make a big ol' batch of oxtail soup and I'll happily post the recipe iffin' anyone wants it. Along with oat cakes, chocolate, fruit, tuna fish, single malt irish whiskey, milk, and water the soup gets taken outside to the household altar and left for our beloved Dead, Gods, and passing Folk.

If I feel compelled I will sacrifice chocolate bars into the river or leave them outside (unwrapped) for various spirits and I always include the dead in that mix. I leave food offerings for the spirits of dead animals and am currently working on a thanks-giving ritual specificly for dead animals' spirits.

The other thing I do for my Dead is have their ashes mixed in with my tattoo ink. I've also made toys for the children among the Dead and burned the toys in a bonfire to send them off.

My family is big on leaving out specific favorite foods of our Dead, though I try and get the better grade chocolate than the russel stovers my Nan liked. Bleergh. The dad's pretty hardcore about leaving out the 'stovers so I figure it's okay to leave out something a bit snazzier.
 
 
EmberLeo
21:24 / 12.10.06
Fabulous!

Personally, I have a small altar set up for those of my relatives who have died within my lifetime (because that's all I have items for so far). The table I set it on is quite deliberately an inherited sidetable that my Mom was always very clear I should be careful with because it's an heirloom. I've got photos, obituaries and other newspaper articles, objects acquired at one or another memorial or wake, and objects that are merely thematic reminders of personality. I also have a designated tea/coffee style cup for the beloved dead in general, which gets filled with water periodically, and a white candle holder that gets white candles put it in.

Totally sepparately, right next to it, I have my Ghede/Baron/Brigitte altar, which has more general references to death and the dead, as appropriate to those Lwa.

I've got a Pomegranate candle that I light on Samhain when I remember, and I try to set out a plate and water as a general offerring to the Beloved Dead and whatever other benevolent spirits may be wandering by.

And I participate in multiple rituals as offerred throughout my community around this tijme.

And now that I tally all that up, it sounds like a lot, but I feel like I barely do anything at all, or that I haven't found quite the right mechanism that makes this deeply personal, instead of a token impersonal effort...

--Ember--
 
 
grant
03:05 / 13.10.06
Oh, and the thing I've done more myself is, you know, actually just going and cleaning graves and lighting candles on them. That's also the main thing in the Chinese ancestor holidays -- the Hell Money I think is secondary to just cleaning the space, freshening the flowers.

If you haven't been to Europe on All Souls', you should go -- towns just shut down and move into the graveyards with brooms and candles.
 
 
illmatic
06:06 / 13.10.06
Pouring libations is big in some cultures -- the African diaspora. I think I've seen it among urban African-Americans, even

Throwaway post before I go to work - this practice is actually referenced in a lot of Hip Hop tunes, Pour Out A Little Liqour by Tupac for one. The other one that's on my mind is "Tap the Bottle" by Kool G Rap ("Tap the bottom of the bottle for the brothers/On the streets homie we look out for one another). They'e both sad, malancholy songs, and a product of the high homicide rate amongst Afro-American males living the gang/street life.
 
 
Unconditional Love
07:39 / 13.10.06
An easy practice is too talk with your dead every day, by that i mean talk to your relatives that have passed on, other ancestors will show up as well to chime in, just chat.
 
 
Ticker
14:03 / 13.10.06
Chocolate Deities

what every good Ancestor/God party ends with!
it's really amazingly great chocolate.
 
 
Princess
14:37 / 13.10.06
A chocolate Sheela Na Gig? Wonderful.
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
18:12 / 13.10.06
Not much to add to what others have said here, I have a little special place, spent some time with my mom learning about her side of the family, of whom I knew almost nothing. Halloween last year was the big night I started doing it but at other random times during the year I've done similar ceremonies. I also do the libation thing when the appropriate kinds of booze come up (grandma was into vodka, grandpa liked Glenlivet) and it's generally well received.

Specifically I try to play music I think they liked. Grandma supposedly was into this and that kind of piano, so I put that on while I'm in there (I started with her and began branching out to others, and I've yet to figure out what kind of music anyone else preferred anyway.) Photos, newspaper clippings, etc.

For me one of the biggest things was just learning all this stuff I didn't know about the ancestors and thinking about it while I interact with them. A lot of it has been kind of a learning where I come from thing and helping to define myself, in some sense.

Also it seems extra relevant to invoke ancestors when specifically working around something family oriented, like asking for help when my sister's sick or something. Last year's Halloween was especially sweet because, unbeknownst to me, my sister was doing her Wiccan thing on the other end of the country at the same time, and ended up finding an old heirloom of the very ancestors I was talking to that had been lost.
 
 
Ticker
19:19 / 13.10.06
that's wonderful pants! (may I call you pants?)
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
02:42 / 16.10.06
may I call you pants?

sure, it's all good. though I gather it has a different meaning depending on what side of the ocean you're on.

one of my friends in japan has sent me a couple of videos she took with her phone of very cool ceremonies (paper floaty candle boat things in streams) and shrines. not sure how to link those up here though. I'd love to see more about the significance/history of that kind of thing. I suppose I could ask her and report back if no one here has more direct info on it. also, just going by what's in the topic summary - I can kind of guess at Dumb Supper but have no idea whatsoever what Winternights is. Can anyone at least give me the basics?
 
 
illmatic
08:25 / 16.10.06
Previous threads here and here
 
 
EmberLeo
21:00 / 16.10.06
Dangit, I asked and everything. *sigh* Can threads be merged? I expect this entire thread could simply append to one of those others...

--Ember--
 
 
ghadis
23:22 / 16.10.06
Ember.. I can't see the need for threads to be combined in any way. Some of the beauty of Barbelith is an ongoing, organic structure. Threads from 3 or 4 years ago are full of people who don't now post on the board. They are also full of regulars who, maybe, have changed their mind about their previous ideas on a subject.These ideas are, of course, interesting and valid. I do see your point that it is frustrating that previous subjects are sometimes linked into more current threads, and i do think that, barbelith technology permitting, this could be done in a better way. A better search facility perhaps. A subject for Policy. But make a good thread title and summery and it tends to work.

Apart from that i don't have that much to offer this thread at the moment. Day of the Dead is coming up and i'm thinking of doing some paintings of my Grandad and making offerings to him in the form of drinking Rum and Black. He was an proper South Welsh coalmining Pirate, my Grandad.
 
 
EmberLeo
05:49 / 17.10.06
I have no issue at all with existing resources being linked! I'm quite happy to find them. My frustration was merely that I had the impression Barbelith custom was to revive old threads in favor of starting whole new ones.

If nobody minds my shiny new thread on a tired old topic, then there's no problem.

By the way, I found this today: http://www.funeralmuseum.org/index.html

--Ember--
 
 
Wildfyre
13:30 / 17.10.06
I went over to Malaysia in the summer to explore the cultural traditions of my mother's family, hoping to find out a bit more about my ancestors. I'm half english and half chinese-malay but I've lived in England all my life.
I've got a few photos on flickr which might be of interest.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/51937402@N00/203661427/

Here is a basket of hell money. My cousin said the paper could be folded in two different ways. It's pretty fiddly so I gave up after a while. My mum once told me that my grandfather was so picky about the neatness of the folding that he wouldn't be too happy to see me and my sisters having a laugh over how badly we were folding them. Oh dear.
In the cultural heritage of my mother's family hell money is particularly burned three times a year: on Chinese New Year, at the Hungry Ghost Festival (seventh lunar month), and Cheng Beng (spring festival). Ancestral spirits feature in all three quite strongly. There are often special large burners at buddhist temples where hell money can be thrown in. At the festivals, we fill a whole basket with folded money and then tip it out on to the grass in four piles (one for each of the principle ancestors we are honouring).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/51937402@N00/210570201/

These are then lit, and the tea and wine from the ancestral shrine is thrown over the flames. The idea is that the ancestral world holds many similarities to this world; and that the ancestors still need money to buy things or gamble, just as they did here. Failing to burn money for ancestors can be seen as a mark of disrespect, a kind of neglect, and this has it's own consequences.

The ancestral shrine is set up indoors on the morning of the festival. Prayers are made by the eldest brother to invite the ancestors. Chair are set out, and food is cooked and laid upon the table along with tea, wine, candles, incense, fruit. There is even a pot of water and a napkin so that the ancestors can wash their fingers when they're done. All items have a very strictly defined spatial arrangement on the table which is repeated year after year. Numbers are very important. All plates and dishes for ancestors should be even in number. I'm not sure about the meaning of this. The minimum amount of dishes that should be cooked is four. In the past people used to cook up to 12 dishes, but nowadays people are returning to the ancestral house from their own homes in the cities so they don't have as much time. The dishes also very specific ingredients.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/51937402@N00/203660073/

This is a photo from a village celebration of the Hungry Ghost Festival in August earlier this year. I haven't uploaded all of my photos of it yet. Basically the chinese believe that for one month the gates of heaven and hell are opened and spirits can wander back and forth, often causing mischief and grief for the living. These spirits are placated, often by whole families, villages, or businesses, by laying out a great feast on long tables. Again, there is often a very strict set-up to the table arrangements but these often depend on the type of Chinese background (featured in this picture is Hokkien, previous photos were Baba-malay)
In this particular celebration, they shut off a road in the village and several tables were set up to hold dozens of plates full of fruit; bananas, pineapples. There were three whole roasted pigs, about two dozen roasted ducks, hundreds of oranges, huge cakes, dumplings, rice, tea... err, yeh, quite a feast. Incense sticks are stuck into all of the food. My aunty said that incense is like a smoke signal to the other world; a way of getting their attention. The street was quietly buzzing. People were making their prayers with the incense. Some people were divining with wooden blocks on the floor, in front of the main altar, asking for the names of new ministers in upcoming national elections.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/51937402@N00/203661426/

In this scene, playing cards, cigarettes and even opium are left under one of the feasting tables for the ghosts who like to gamble.
At the head of the table there is a 9 or 10ft model of Kuan Yin in her guise as the Master of the Underworld.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/51937402@N00/203661425/

The idea is that all these naughty ghosts need to be kept in check or else they'll be utter havoc, so Kuan Yin puts on her biggest scariest disguise and resides over the entire feast with her various assistants. At the very top of the crown you can see a tiny depiction of Kuan Yin and she is more widely recognised.

I'm pretty sure there are books written all about this. There are so many little interesting details I've sort of glossed over here in order to give a general view of what I've experienced as the ancestral worship for the Chinese in Malaysia. I could go on for some time but perhaps that's enough?
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
16:23 / 17.10.06
talk as much as you want, I'm happy. the pictures are great.
 
 
illmatic
16:45 / 17.10.06
That's a great post Wyldfire cheers for sharing all that. Go on for as long as you want. There's some interesting stuff about ancestor worship and the rituals around the dead in Kirsten Schaffer's "The Taoist Body" which relates to what you were talking about, which may be of interest.
 
 
grant
18:17 / 17.10.06
More, please!
 
 
EmberLeo
03:34 / 18.10.06
Oh absoloutely talk all you want - this is EXACTLY the kind of stuff I'm looking for!

Thank you

--Ember--
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
08:59 / 18.10.06
Great stuff.

Oliver Twist style: Please can we have some more?
 
 
Wildfyre
13:38 / 18.10.06
I'm really glad it's of interest. Thankyou to whoever formatted my images. I think I've got the hang of it now.


So this is the table of offerings for the ancestors at Chinese New Year (this photo from 3 yrs ago). A red embroidered cloth is hung from the front of the table (not visible in this picture). This table, when prepared, is always set up separately from the household shrine, though the household shrine is also decorated.
Once the prayers have been made, the candles lit, and the food laid out, it is quite common for someone to toss a couple of coins (or wooden divination blocks). My cousin showed me this. If the coins land head-tails then it means the ancestors are present. If they land head-head then they are present and happy. If it's tails-tails then it means they are not present, in which case further prayers and efforts should be made to invite them.

In the background of that picture you can see the household shrine, delicately carved from dark wood. I would feel a bit funny posting a proper picture of it up here (a bit personal or something I guess) but it just holds more fruit and incense, and a central framed picture of the chinese goddess of mercy Kuan Yin, the deity honoured by the family.

I should have mentioned this before, but two kinds of ancestor worship can actually be distinguished in chinese and chinese-malay households. One is the 'invitation' system of ancestor worship, and the other is the 'keeping' system. In my family there is no permanent altar to the ancestors because there is no one in the ancestral house to tend to them every day (the house is left empty almost all year round but it's where everyone was brought up so everyone's too reluctant to sell it). In such situations, the family will only invite the ancestors at the festivals and death anniversaries when a temporary altar is set up. So if a permanent altar is set up it must tended or it is deemed an act of disrespect. For families who do practice the 'keeping' system, they usually also have an ancestral tablet on their altar with the names of the ancestors on. In my family, those tablets have been given to the buddhist temple and they keep them there on display.


This is from the local temple where my relatives still go and make prayers. It may be a bit a little dark, but you should be able to see all the ancestral tablets at the back, behind the glass.

Here is a little excerpt from a book by Tan Chee Beng, a chinese anthropologist who researched this particular culture. It is more in depth than I had the chance to find out:
'The temporary ancestral altar is set up on the eve of the day when the worship is to take place. The household-head or usually his wife burns some joss sticks and goes to the front verandah. Facing the direction of the graveyard, if possible, she prays and invites the ancestors back to the house for the occassion. The joss-sticks are then placed on the holder and red candles are lit. In this way, she has invited the ancestors to return to the house to be worshipped. The ancestors will "stay" in the house until a separate ritual is performed to "request" their departure. This involves only the burning of incense and ritual papers. In the case of a one-day worship, the burning of ritual papers at the end of the worship is sufficient to signify the end of the ancestors "stay" and a separate ritual of departure is not necessary.'


And a little about Ceng Beng:
I've never been to a Ceng Beng celebration though my relatives still perform it every year. This is a short description from the same anthropologist cited above:
'Ceng-Beng (baba pronounciation) or Qingming in Mandarin has been described in English at the Chinese "All Souls Day". It normally falls on April 5th of the solar calender. Ceng-Beng is a festival to commemorate the dead of the family....
Ceng-Beng festival is mainly for visiting and worshipping ancestors at the graveyard. On arrival at the graveyard, the worshippers clean the grave, remove the grass and sweep the tomb. After cleaning, pieces of mock money are placed on the grave, each being weighed down by a small stone or some soil to stop it from being blown away by the wind. This ritual is called técoa (Hokkien: teh choa) which in Hokkien literally means "weighing down the papers". After this, the offerings are laid out and the worshipping begins.

-There is likely to be much more information on this on the net somewhere.


Finally, this lantern is more to do with funerary rites rather than ancestral worship but this is just something I found interesting in a short 'Did You Know..?' kind of way.
Traditionally, lanterns are particularly important symbols after a death in the family. They're hung out in front of the house, visible to neighbours and passer-bys. Blue and white lanterns are used to signal a premature or unfortunate death (bad death) whereas red lanterns are used for the elderly dead who died of old age (a good death).
(NB. this is in Chinese-Malay culture, not sure about Chinese-chinese, or other cultural threads).

As mentioned by a previous poster, all this is all what is usually described as 'Daoism' (folk daoism i guess) by my relatives, something like a mixture of Buddhism, Confucionism, Daoism and Chinese folk religion.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
13:43 / 18.10.06
S'bloody marvellous, thanks for sharing.
 
 
Ticker
13:47 / 18.10.06
Wildfyre thanks so much for posting the info and pics!
I do know what you mean about posting images of personal altars/shrines. Feels a bit weird as they are designed to be interacted with all of our senses.
 
 
grant
13:59 / 18.10.06
Just as a note, "Qing Ming" is also called "Clear Brightness" because that's what the words mean. I think it's also called something like "Grave Cleaning Festival" since that's what people do in China.

Ah, Wikipedia calls it "Tomb Sweeping Day."
 
 
grant
14:01 / 18.10.06
Oh, and we're coming up fast on Double 9th Day, the other grave-cleaning festival.

Ninth day of the ninth lunar month = day before Halloween.
 
 
Ticker
17:44 / 18.10.06
sweet! thanks grant!
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
20:31 / 18.10.06
I find myself invoking what few ancestors I know about when I am doing things that they enjoyed.

Some days when I shoot pool I honestly feel like my grandfather is guiding my game and I can't lose. Whenever I slip into mediator mode and try to work out the confrontations of other people in a non-violent way I feel like my bar owning grandmother is helping me out.

There really isn't any specific ritual I follow, mostly because my mother didn't follow one to hand down to me. I usually toast to my grandparents when I am drinking things I know they liked, Bourbon especially.

Really pretty mundane compared to what other cultures have.
 
 
Ticker
23:45 / 18.10.06
yeah but's super rich compared to a few other as well.
 
 
Ticker
15:46 / 25.10.06
I just got my dark chocolate pictish bull from chocolate deities!
He's an anniversay present we will share with our beloved Dead on Sunday.
I'll see if I can a good picture of him as he is VERY handsome!
here's an old picture of the wedding bulls.

they make custom designs so we asked for a pictish bull because chocolate is our ethical replacement for animal sacrifice.
 
 
Haloquin
16:53 / 25.10.06
Oooh! That sounds like a fab idea xk. *pokes pictures admiringly*
 
 
Ticker
15:02 / 26.10.06
I want to say nice things about these folks putting on a Dumb Supper for the public. Really I do. But Salem MA is sort of a wincey subject 'round these parts.

It's the Disneyland of the occult which is fun when you're in the mood for it. It's when you realize the ego investment and in fighting going on that it stops being fun and makes it wince worthy. There are a lot of nice solid people hamming it up to pay the bills in the mix and they are educating the public about many aspects of alternative religion. There I said something nice.
 
 
Ticker
13:19 / 30.10.06
I went to go pick up the ox tail for making my ritual offering....
For the first time ever the butcher is out of ox tail.

I'm taking this as a sign that the Folks would like a new menu option this year.
Should be cow based (modern ox tail is cow tail) but perhaps I should get a big roast of something. Are there any cuts of cow that come with bones? I'm trying to avoid asking my butcher as it will lead to the conversation of why I went relics of the meal.

Any suggestions?
 
 
Princess
14:20 / 30.10.06
Well, my butchery knowledge is limited, but ribs definitely do.
 
  

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