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Page: 123(4)5

 
 
Quantum
13:51 / 13.02.07
Civil War is coming! It's like Marvel but in Penge!
"Mr Cottage accepted the possession charge on the basis that the explosives were designed to deter attacks on his property, Mr Webster said.

The explanation was not accepted by the prosecution.


Class deadpan there, teehee!
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
14:26 / 13.02.07
Still missing that funny old T word, though.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
14:53 / 13.02.07
See, if Mr Cottage had declared his dwelling to be an independent state then his ownership of dangerous explosives would probably have been okay and he probably could have got a bank loan in order to buy himself a nuke.

Meanwhile The IPCC says the police were justified in breaking into a Muslim guy's home and breaking his arm but should probably say sorry.

A spokesman described the two complaints upheld by the IPCC as "minor" and said they happened when the provision of painkillers and food to the men in custody fell below standard...

IPCC commissioner Deborah Glass said: "I've concluded that the police were right to take no chances with public safety.


But that is saying that the police are justified in working on the assumption Muslim=terrorist.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
16:46 / 13.02.07
The Guardian finally cover Mr Cottage too.

Though, credit where credit's due- other than a tiny "news in brief" thing in the Times, The Guardian were the only other national to mention the arrest AT ALL- albeit in the "Diary" column, where the columnist (I forget who was writing it that week) was wondering why no nationals, including the very paper he was writing for, had covered it and basically asking the same questions as we have in this thread.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
06:14 / 14.02.07
Apologies for the link to the Mail, Police refuse to apologise for Forest Gate. According to the Mail, the police have apologised to everyone except the brothers they arrested and are refusing to do so, and are getting tetchy with anyone that suggests they should do more. If any of this is accurate, it makes you wonder what the IPCC is actually for, it whitewashes all police activity anyway, then when it asks them to throw a tiny bone in the innocent men's direction the police still get all huffy and go off to sulk.
 
 
■
09:17 / 14.02.07
Well, it's a good start. It did take a bit of prodding, though. Maybe someone will pick up on it in comment now.
 
 
Tabitha Tickletooth
11:21 / 14.02.07
There is something very 'gently, gently' about the coverage of these BNP t-word types so far. I'm aware of the reporting restrictions in place, but nonetheless it seems that rather than foregrounding the 'these people had amassed weapons that could potentially be used to attack and kill us all' angle, as is so beloved of terrorist case coverage, the press are opting for an approach which foregrounds their defence: 'in the event of a civil war we would have used these to defend ourselves. Oh, and we would quite like to have shot TB.' I sense that there is a large gentle-headshakey, tut tut tut readership that will be able to read this in a 'weeeeell, obviously they went too far, but you can see how, with the break down of the country and whatnot your average Briton might feel the need to take steps to protect himself... and who doesn't want to have a pop at TB, really' way.

I'm going to wait until the coverage develops a little more to see whether they continue to get what I perceive as a sympathetic coverage. When I have some time, I might try to compare and contrast with other in-trial coverage of cases with some parallels. Interestingly, the good 'ol Daily Telegraph did cover the story yesterday. Today's coverage seems to lean towards the sympathies of of your average Tele reader, however, largely thanks (I think) to the following quote from his partner's statement:

Mrs Cottage said: "He believes there will be a civil war and the emergence of a new world order.

"That's why he keeps the crossbows and says he will shoot anyone who comes to his property without permission.

"He blames the Government for letting the illegal immigrants into the country.

"He is very religious and has become more and more so. He doesn't attend church. He prays to God all the time, he says, in his head."


Get those key messages in there! Hmmmm.
 
 
Sax
11:47 / 14.02.07
And they're bloody ugly as well
 
 
■
15:54 / 20.02.07
Just so we can stay consistent, Sax:
Yes, yes. Let's mock her for her appearance shall we? Much better than addressing the actual issue, especially if she choose to appear in a way we don't.
(Lula, earlier in the thread, after I sniped unconstructively at miss "don't want no browns in my class")

You are right, though, they are hogs.

So, anyone heard anything else? Got this from the PA. David Jackson said:
"No, I do have very strong views but I am too idle to do anything about it.
"I'm apolitical. The last time I voted was for Ted Heath in the seventies and I've regretted it ever since."

So if he wasn't idle, he'd be doing something about his strong but entirely apolitical views? Maybe exercising his strong views on guttering by climbing a few ladders or something. I am confused. What are these strong views if not political?
 
 
_pin
07:39 / 22.02.07
It would imagine that it is simply a fact that the blacks, they overrun. There's even an internal rhyme there, so its easy to see how "fact" and "black" can get tangeled up. Politics is what people do to obscure that facts of race hate and its violent consequences.

We know this because Enoch Powell was a world-famous not-politican.
 
 
Tabitha Tickletooth
12:14 / 22.02.07
So, the jury has retired to consider its verdict. Meanwhile, our national press continues with very low-key, reasonably sympathetic coverage - despite some pretty dramatic but largely uncovered claims. A number of the media 'biggies', including Sky, appear to have left this alone for the minute but those that have been keeping us up to date appear to me to be leading on the men's defences rather than the accusations, as headlines show.

First, the BBC (which has carried the most regular updates) reported the rather alarming accusation made by David Jackson that Robert Cottage suggested locations where he could plant a ball-bearing bomb and believed if there was not "blood in the streets" the country was "lost". But that's okay because we hear that little Dave wasn't a bad person, he was just 'sad' over UK.

So to recap, we've got a guy found with a huge amount of material that could be used to make chemical weapons and a handbook about making bombs, not to mention some crossbows and other stuff, who had suggested places he might bomb and wanted to shoot the prime minister. All of which, and maybe it's just my experience as a subeditor talking, is pushing some massive, much-used, brightly flashing tabloid headline buttons. So imagine my surprise when the Daily Mail went with... Chemical traces found in BNP man’s home. How terribly low-key.

Alongside this, there seems to be a tendency to focus, particularly in headlines, on their defences - *why* they felt compelled to make bombs, stockpile weapons and plan to kill people - as opposed to what they were accused of planning to do. The Guardian's My weapons were for imminent civil war, says ex-BNP candidate, for example. The Times, on the other hand, doesn't even think the whole bomb thing is worth a headline mention - Armed BNP candidate denies plan to kill Tony Blair. I suspect Times readers are probably expected to sympathise.

In a perverse way, I look forward to the coverage of the outcome, although I fear it at the same time.
 
 
Tabitha Tickletooth
12:37 / 22.02.07
PS The Sun does not appear to have covered it at all (from what my limited searching skills can find) which I think you'll agree is a real shame given what they did with this classic of terrorist home reporting. Now I may never know what Robert and Dave's 'lairs' looked like. Or their cookers.
 
 
Tabitha Tickletooth
14:45 / 23.02.07
Jost so's you know - Jury discharged after failing to reach a verdict, no word on a retrial at this stage.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
10:51 / 24.02.07
What the cock was their difficulty? And it does say there will be a retrial but doesn't say when.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
17:27 / 01.03.07
Jury in fertilizer bomb case told not to be prejudiced. Good luck with that.
 
 
■
15:39 / 05.03.07
We have to wait until July, apparently. Still, at least they're on remand.
This also means it is again sub judice, and stricter contempt rules apply again. While a case is in court you can report on proceedings. Now we can't, really.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
01:01 / 06.03.07
More suspicious powder action, again terrorism isn't suspected.
 
 
jentacular dreams
14:16 / 06.03.07
With respect, I would suggest that to suspect terrorism, you have to have at least something of a political cause to attach the arrestee to. That said, UKIP did get over 3% of the vote there in 2005....
 
 
Closed for Business Time
14:27 / 07.03.07
This makes for worrying reading - How my eyes were opened to the barbarity of Islam - Is it racist to condemn fanaticism? by a Phyllis Chesler, an Emerita Professor of Psychology and Women’s Studies at the City University of New York.

What about this quote here: "Long before the rise of the Taleban, I learnt not to romanticise Third World countries or to confuse their hideous tyrants with liberators. I also learnt that sexual and religious apartheid in Muslim countries is indigenous and not the result of Western crimes — and that such “colourful tribal customs” are absolutely, not relatively, evil."

Or this one: "Nevertheless, Western intellectual-ideologues, including feminists, have demonised me as a reactionary and racist “Islamophobe” for arguing that Islam, not Israel, is the largest practitioner of both sexual and religious apartheid in the world and that if Westerners do not stand up to this apartheid, morally, economically and militarily, we will not only have the blood of innocents on our hands; we will also be overrun by Sharia in the West. I have been heckled, menaced, never-invited, or disinvited for such heretical ideas — and for denouncing the epidemic of Muslim-on-Muslim violence for which tiny Israel is routinely, unbelievably scapegoated."

Talking points? Any good HS or Switchboard threads that could do with some ReAnimatoring? I'll be glad to do some dissecting... a little later in the week(-end).

A couple of quick thoughts -

~ I'd love some Barbe-pointers (threads?) to good analytical strategies and strong ethical headlights for separating legitimate criticisms of Islamic scripture and historical as well as contemporary Islamic practices from cultural (f. example tribalism), economic, political and military issues. I do believe there is a case for bringing the hammer down on certain interpretations and directions in Islam - Wahhabism being a point in case. I also believe that in the current climate of supersonic multi-media shrieking and volcanic rhetoric that there is a greater than ever need for thoughtful and semi-attached dialogue. Which perhaps should go without saying..
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
05:43 / 08.03.07
Well, I find it incredible that no-one has actually exposed how Muslim's invade Israel and steal their ordnance in order to perpetuate Muslim-on-Muslim violence.

Ahem. I find her story appalling, but as a reason in itself for why Islam should be attacked irrelevant. Such analysis as hers ignores the fact that western Governments have money concerns which means that Saudi Arabia will never be criticised for it's human rights abuses while Iran will be targeted for seeking what it's enemies already have, nuclear weapons. It's not some romantic leftist view of Islam, any more than David Aaronovitch and co's claim that anyone who took part in the Stop The War marches a few years ago was a Stalinist was anything other than bum drivel of the highest order.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
08:58 / 08.03.07
Just rereading those two quotes that I did not in any way or shape cherrypick (seriously) I'm amazed at how she gets away with personifying Islam, calling it "the greatest practitioner of etc etc". It's precisely that kind of wilfully imprecise and misleading language that facilitates and empowers a dialogue of binary opposites of absolute good and evil as opposed to my beloved shades of grey. In essence it makes our public conversations dumber and dumber.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
09:44 / 12.03.07
tiny Israel

Fuck off.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
11:46 / 12.03.07
Well, it's correct if you compared Israel to say, Betelgeuse.
 
 
■
09:46 / 31.07.07
Robert Cottage guilty

At last. Now, let's see how many front pages we get for this racist terrorist threat...
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
10:00 / 31.07.07
It's tucked away on the BBC website.

Sentencing Cottage, Mrs Justice Swift said Cottage's actions had been "criminal and potentially dangerous".

She added there was a low risk of him committing further offences.

"I am satisfied it was Cottage's views on how he put it 'the evils of uncontrolled immigration' would lead to civil war which would be imminent and inevitable.

"I accept the intention was to hold these chemicals until the outbreak of civil unrest. That was a criminal and potentially dangerous act.

"In letting off any such thunder flash mistakenly believing you were under threat you may have caused injury to some innocent person."
 
 
All Acting Regiment
10:52 / 01.08.07
Well, at least he's put away. Although again if he was a Muslim he'd have been shipped right off to Gitmo.

~ I'd love some Barbe-pointers (threads?) to good analytical strategies and strong ethical headlights for separating legitimate criticisms of Islamic scripture and historical as well as contemporary Islamic practices from cultural (f. example tribalism), economic, political and military issues. I do believe there is a case for bringing the hammer down on certain interpretations and directions in Islam - Wahhabism being a point in case. I also believe that in the current climate of supersonic multi-media shrieking and volcanic rhetoric that there is a greater than ever need for thoughtful and semi-attached dialogue. Which perhaps should go without saying.

This would be a good and useful thread.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
07:00 / 17.12.07
Another white guy with a bomb who isn't called a terrorist and who the media weren't that interested in reporting.
 
 
Tabitha Tickletooth
14:54 / 25.06.08
Should be interesting to see what kind of coverage this conviction gets more broadly. I was out of the country when this would have broken, so apologies if it has been covered in depth already. I note with interest, that although he is being charged under the terrorism act with terrorist offences, he is at no point actually referred to by anyone as a terrorist.

I find myself pretty unimpressed with the judge's comments too, although perhaps in the wider context they seemed more scathing.

Judge John Milford QC, sentencing, told Gilleard: "It's clear to me you have a deep-seated hatred of persons who are black, Asian and Jewish.

"You believe that the time has come to stop the talking and to engage in direct action against them."

Judge Milford said he believed Gilleard's extreme and violent views were "still burning bright", that he was working as a "lone wolf," and that he was "unrepentant".


Particularly don't like the use of the term 'lone wolf', which smacks just a tad of romanticising a bigoted, dangerous wanker. To me.
 
 
Pingle!Pop
17:54 / 25.06.08
I can't also help but wonder if there'd be much reaction (not that there's much compared to the feeding frenzy when someone is arrested with suspiciously dark skin and a knife under their bed) if he were merely a Nazi terrorist, rather than a Nazi paedo terrorist.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
09:21 / 27.06.08
It might be worth putting on here, for future reference, that English common law is based heavily on the form of Sharia law that William the Conqueror observed in Sicily. I've been reading up on the thing for next time there's an uninformed row about Sharia in the media.
 
 
Not in the Face
12:29 / 01.07.08
AAR: It might be worth putting on here, for future reference, that English common law is based heavily on the form of Sharia law that William the Conqueror observed in Sicily. I've been reading up on the thing for next time there's an uninformed row about Sharia in the media.

William the Conqueror? In Sicily? Do you have a reference for that?
 
 
Axolotl
13:50 / 01.07.08
Here and here is some information from wikipedia. Not being up on my legal history I don't know how kosher this is but it seems to me that they have similarities rather than a direct provable link. Still it's interesting stuff.
 
 
Not in the Face
14:13 / 01.07.08
As you say its interesting but I wonder how much benefit it is to discussions of current Islamic law or indeed English law. Both are bodies of common law meaning that have adapted and changed over time as new interpretations and meanings have been developed in response to changing cultures and assumptions. I certainly wouldn't judge current English law on the basis of what was done 900 years ago.

However it was mostly the idea that William the Conqueror observed it in Sicily and introduced it to England that I was questioning as that statement AFAIK is so wrong that it would cause one to question anything that was said afterwards.
 
 
Axolotl
15:32 / 01.07.08
It seemed strange to me as well but wikipedia seems to document it fairly extensively. Though that said having done some reading you're right, William The Conqueror didn't conquer Sicily but the Normans in a more general sense seem to have had a stong presence in Italy during this period.

I agree that comparisons between the two systems aren't going to be much use. I think it's more of an example of where early Islam was ahead of Europe at the time.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:51 / 01.07.08
The wisdom of correcting apparently uninformed opinions with reference to Wikipedia is a bit of an open question, also.
 
  

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