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Nature and magick

 
 
illmatic
15:57 / 07.10.06
So, Rigettle said: Speaking of nature spirits, I must raise the point: how do people use the term, the concept of "nature"? Particularly on their magical or spiritual path. I'll start a thread, if there's interest & it hasn't been done to death already.

And then I said: think this could be a really interesting thread. I can't say I've done much magick out nature, having been a city dweller all of my life. However, it's something I have an increasing interest in and just in terms of practical day to day inspiration, I find my brief contact with the natural world something worth noting and building on. It might just be paying attention to the birds outside, or trying to figure out a bit more about the trees in my street. It's something I have an increasing interest in. I'd particuarly be interested in a discussion giving practical tips integrating this stuff into a city lifestyles.

Some starting points for discussion might be the way in which we tend to polarise culture and nature and don't recognise that this is in itself a contrast, and related to that the romanticism that attaches itself to modern paganism. I think I'll start a thread.
And now I have.

I don't think this discussion has been done to death, thus far. As I indicated above, I don't have a mass of practical experience here, so may have limited amounts to contribute.

Final thought: another false polarity that bugs me is that of science vs magick. This seems nowhere more apparent to me than in the reading of scientifc texts about the natural world (pop science, in case anyone asks). I am learning an absolute heap about nature from scientific texts, adn I can't see how this can do anything other than enhance a spiritual perspective. Just finished Colin Tudge's Secret Life of Trees and will be moving onto Richard Fortey's Earth in a bit. Richard Mabey's Nature Cure stands out to me as an example of the fusion between subjectivity and scientific study, personal history and natural and local histories.

So, thoughts?
 
 
Rigettle
16:48 / 07.10.06
Nice one Pegs, mate. I too am just coming to the end of Tudge's lovely book.

Nature for me is one of those perilous words that means whatever you want it too.

I use the word in two different ways:

Abstact nature: the essence,the constellated qualities, the spirit if you like, of anything & everything. This is not just a vague blacmange- for me it means something very important about levels of organisation & the way that the world we experience manifests itself.

Second, specifically non-human nature, or maybe non urban nature. A walk in the woods, a windy hill with its granite tor, the voice of a bird or the coldness of a dip in the sea are a major attachment for me. They're so therapeutic & they seeem to put things into perspective.

I wanted to finish my post by recognisng that both of my definitions are problematic in different ways.

The first is an irrational, (mystical?) presence which I find easier to connect with via the second - that's my conditioning at work.

Of great interst to me is the liminality of the human/ non-human boundary which is like a harmonic of the deeper & more fraught self/ other boundary. For me, both are powerful & important places to be.
 
 
Unconditional Love
17:54 / 07.10.06
Pegs have you ever tried going into a wood and doing bagua around a tree, my last bagua instructor taught this way, its very different to doing it at home or in a church hall.

A whole different set of feelings, like a dance around a tree.

Ill write more about chi gung and natural environments at some point.

To me practicing in nature brings my instincts alive, it cuts out all the human symbolic relationships to town city and the semantic symbolic environment and allows feeling to predominate the space you are working in, the senses become more fully engaged and feel more at home, for want of a better expression. Breath work is also improved in an open space outside, try doing any meditation near running water, the quality of the air and the freshness of feeling on the skin so engage the body with the water and sunlight and moving reflections of self, the alertness is increased because without walls and boundaries theres a tendency to feel not quite safe, ie your body may click into animal at a watering hole mode. Your not engaged in feeding, but you are somehow more naked, i have never been skyclad outside and i do wonder what thats like dancing in ecstatic circles.
 
 
Haloquin
20:14 / 07.10.06
Slackula; I conversely, actually find I feel much safer in "natural" (perhaps better would be "less urban") spaces. And I lower my defences accordingly, relax, and feel much more open to sensing things. I understand the feeling of being more open and naked, but then there tends to be less perceived danger and so I lower defences. For me there's less of an element of being on the alert for danger than there is in a city where people may mug you or beat you up for the hell of it, at least most animals will attack only if you do something stupid.
I have a tendancy of thinking of any spaces with more plants than a street and any number of wild animals as natural, despite knowing that the areas have been severely tampered with... this comes from having grown up in a large town all my life, and I guess, not having overmuch immediate access to anything uncultivated.

As for incorporating nature into magical practices, on a daily basis I acknowledge the sun, and moon if I see it, to remind myself of where I am in relation to the world. My first spell actually consisted of wishing on the first star I saw every night for about a year or two, for the same thing. I got it. And when I worked outside as a fundraiser I would draw in energy from the sun and mentally transmute it so I could use the energy to keep bouncy (essential when trying to talk people out of personal details) and to stop it from burning my skin. The only time I burnt was when I forgot to do this, even though I was wearing sun cream for a change.
Trees are good, if feeling stressed I lean against a tree (if possible) and ask it for help. They seem to slow everything down just enough to get a breather. Making note of any greenery that pokes its head through the cracks in the pavement is helpful, pot plants too, a kind of mental wave to them and you can feel a connection, which seems to have a low level destressing effect.
 
 
illmatic
12:52 / 08.10.06
Pegs have you ever tried going into a wood and doing bagua around a tree

Not quite. I have no woods local to me, but I've done it in the local park plenty of times, and it's something I really enjoy. I look forward to the practice on weekend mornings and am a bit sad that summer's ending. I think this is what Rigettle is talking about in hir second category above.

BTW mate if you feel like expanding on the first of your categories, go for it. I find it a little abstract thus far.

Also, does anyone have any practical tips on cultivating the experience of nature in the City? I would like to get out to wild spaces more, and intend to, but work is currently eating the lives of me and my partner and preventing this from happening. Until it does, I've been adding nature notes to my diary, and I might get a bit more pro-active here, finding out practically about local trees and so forth. Other ideas?
 
 
Haloquin
12:56 / 08.10.06
One thing I was once reminded of is; even in a city, to see nature all you need to do is go outside and look up.
 
 
illmatic
13:16 / 08.10.06
This kind of thing is commonly mentioned as a reason for the popularity of birdwatching. I mean, how freqently do you see a land mammal that isn't a cat or a dog.? Squirrels in the park but that's about it for me. But you can see birds everywhere if you keep your eyes open. Simon Barnes's book How to be a Bad Birdwatcher is good for this kind of low maintenance environmental engagement.
 
 
illmatic
14:43 / 08.10.06
Some old threads:

Eco-Magick

Magick, Paganism & The Great Outdoors

Tree Spirits and Wishing Wells

If you can think of others, stick 'em in.
 
 
Unconditional Love
17:37 / 08.10.06
Insects are another good way to approach city nature, cultivate spiders, i watched yesterday as a spider above my hall way raidiator slowly consumed a crane fly caught in its web, really fascinating to watch, gave me ideas about dealing with a few troubling people.
 
 
Rigettle
15:53 / 09.10.06
I'm agreeing with what folks are saying here about the value of contact with nature. It's the number one thing in my spiritual life. Yes, I practice meditation indoors, but I feel that my spirituality actually belongs outdoors. If I feel down & visit one of my special places, then I feel better. If I do my practice on the common or in the woods I feel that I'm connecting with [spirit] more powerfully. I love the smells & the tangle, the vastness & sheer force of what we call nature. It seems more real that the increasingly virtual reality of our life in human society.

But what is that? Am I just responding to the absence of walls, straight lines & advertising - controlled environments in general? Well I don't think so, though that is part of the pattern, there has to be something positive there too.

What is it? I've always been hooked on stones & wind & trees & water & birds & moss & all that. I feel that through nature with a small n somehow I come into contact with Nature with a large N. Some folks might like to call it God or Goddess or the Ground of Being, but Nature is a good word for it. However we have to be careful that we don't just get an inflated idea based on a set of beliefs to which we have become attached.

Yes, it's abstract, because we can't really conceive of what that deepest nature may be. All my magic & my spiritual path comes from that, returns to that. Tao is a nice short monosyllable that might do, if we hadn't all already decided what it meant.

It's immanment, as Starhawk might say, but for me it also has a transcendent quality.

The challenge for me is to try to take that understanding into the increasingly engineered & monotonous spaces of modern life - the house, the city, the shop, the school, the car, the motorway, the net. It would be easy for me to say that these things, because they are human creations aren't natural. Maybe I could fantasise about running away to Scotland or somewhere & living "closer to nature". It's nice to romanticise nature. Or to,use it as an excuse for one's ideological fixations. But these things aren't unnatural. Nothing is unnatural. Nothing is even supernatural. Nature is fathomless & we humans are a force of nature no less that a hurricane.

If that is so then I should be able to find Nature with a capital N anywhere, any time. I'm just not free enough in my own mind to honestly say that I live that truth 24/7.

Last Saturday night, for the full moon, I did my "walking the territory" ritual, hanging out in my special spots a bit, following paths & tracks that take me as far away from the bright lights as possible & linking up with some of my spirit friends & the local guardians. Jumping up & down for a bit naked in a woodland glade with civilisation actually within shouting distance. Creeping around the edges of human space, making offerings, chilling out by a favourite tree, listening to the sound of water in the dark.

Simple can be very powerful.

You might be interested in the writings of David Abram who is a very interesting person. Also my friend Graham Harvey,who writes so well about animism.
 
 
Haloquin
13:16 / 10.10.06
I'm wondering if its because we haven't had long enough to adjust to all these straight lines... and electric lighting, and odd hours. We can adjust to them, but its not the healthiest way to live, purely on a physical basis because of the way we've evolved (I'm guessing, not any kind of expert on evolution or psychology etc.). The culture and amount of technology we live in is only a very recent thing, maybe as a species we're not quite built for the world we've made, and thats why "natural" spaces are so relaxing, thats why its easier to feel "The Nature" under a tree or a wide open sky by a babbling brook than under the relatively flourescent lighting that just simply doesn't suit our eyes.
I'm also thinking that modern life as we know it tends to make us soft, and less fit to survive without props... so perhaps our leanings towards outdoor spaces are indicative of our instinctive desire to be somewhere that strengthens us.

Given time maybe we'll adjust more to the way we've made things, or we'll change the things we've made to adjust to us.

Plus theres a whole bunch of psychological and spiritual historical associations that have been ingrained in us, that means natural spaces possibly have more umph mythically (as in; in our myths) and so its easier for us to expect an easier connection to "The Nature" through trees than computers.
 
 
illmatic
15:39 / 10.10.06
maybe as a species we're not quite built for the world we've made, and thats why "natural" spaces are so relaxing

That's much how I feel, though this isn't the sort of thing I could "prove". I worry about romantising these things because it isn't like I could survive at night out in truely wild environment. Unsurprising really - it isn't my environment, why would I have the skills to survive in it? (Incidentally, I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has cultivated any of these skills. Any Ray Mears types around?)

I have a lot more to say on this but I'm too tired to think straight due to an unfortunate encounter with wildlife - a mouse - in our flat late last night.
 
 
grant
16:40 / 10.10.06
I worry about romantising these things because it isn't like I could survive at night out in truely wild environment. Unsurprising really - it isn't my environment, why would I have the skills to survive in it?

Oh, sure you could! The question is could you survive comfortably.

Cities are just nature with thicker walls and a lot of cars. Well, and different signs advertising things.

(Food here! Stop! No outlet!)

But really "nature" isn't half as dangerous as some people seem to think it is, and most of the skills are pretty much the same. (If it looks mean, stay on the other side of the street. Don't hang your valuables out where predators will notice them.)
 
 
Quantum
17:31 / 10.10.06
Houses are just clever caves really, it's been a long time since we roamed the savannah. Arguably the way cavemen lived is the 'natural' state we've evolved for, going out to tackle some nature and then dragging it's arse back to the cave to roast it with some roots*. Now our caves are extremely comfortable and have windows, plumbing and TV.

I think it's the sense of space that is the appeal of the rural environment, having the sky above you without it being hemmed in by buildings, looking at the sea, standing atop a mountain. That and trees. I really like trees on a fundamental level, and a bonsai just isn't the same.

*I am, of course, describing the ancient custom of 'Sunday Lunch'
 
 
EmberLeo
22:16 / 11.10.06
I mean, how freqently do you see a land mammal that isn't a cat or a dog.?

Apparently the SF Bay Area is extremely woodsey for a major metro...

Growing up near a creek running through sprawling suburbia, I'm used to urban mammals including not just mice, moles, gophers, rats, and squirrels, but also rabbits, possums, raccoons, skunks, and the occasional deer. I don't have to travel more than 5 miles to significantly increase the frequency of deer, and maybe 20 miles to catch the occasional coyote, mountain lion, or bobcat.

Yes, birds of all kinds all over the place - songbirds, raptors, seabirds, corvids and other scavengers, the occasional owl, and, of course, pigeons. I didn't used to pay so much attention to them, but Freya got me noticing the Hawks and Falcons, and Odin got me noticing the Ravens and Crows. Environmental Science field trips got me noticing the Gulls and Turns, and trying to figure out what the hell was making that funny noise got me noticing the difference between angry squirrels and happy redwing blackbirds.

I've always noticed all the cats, the bluebelly lizards, and, on a less positive note, the spiders *twitch* (I know, it's a personal prejudice - you don't have to agree with me, but I still don't care for 'em). I find it's the trees that still fascinate me the most - especially Redwoods.

I know that a lot of what draws me to nature is just the fact that most of it is alive. A lot of plants and some animals have a kind of glow to them. I don't mean vibe, I mean they reflect light well into the UV spectrum, and it makes them sparkly. Of course there's also the vibe.

Another thing that really draws me is just the reduction of background noise. Despite being hypersensitive, I mostly don't notice how much I go through daily life in an urban environment clenched up in self-defense against the bombardment of noise generated by all those cars and air conditioners and such, reflected sharply off man-made walls.

The forest is comparatively quiet. Water running through the creek, chirping birds, even the yowling of mating animals is more melodic than the sound of a nearby freeway, and the sound isn't concentrated and feedback-looped by ... well, much of anything really.

I'm okay in suburban environments, but I can barely handle major urban areas like San Francisco and downtown Oakland - something about being surrounded by buildings taller than trees just feels deeply wrong to me.

I suppose it registers on a spiritual level - I don't necessarily think Emotional and "mundane" sensory responses are less sacred than more esoteric alternatives.

it isn't like I could survive at night out in truely wild environment.

That's not nearly as hard as you might think - Humans aren't anybody's natural prey, really (well, mosquitos, I guess), so your primary concern overnight is temperature. Staying warm is mostly a matter of insulation and shelter, both of which can be pretty straightforward to acquire in a truely wild context.

The real challenge is surviving without any equipment in a managed area - if you're in a park or something where you're not allowed to actually use the resources around you AND you don't have any of your own, that can be a problem.

Of course, in the long run the challenge is finding enough food, and that's a whole other issue. Again, managed areas are artificially difficult in this manner, because it may be against the rules to fish or hunt in certain ways. In a truely wild context, whatever you can make work is fair game.

--Ember--
 
 
Saturn's nod
08:56 / 12.10.06
Fungi's a major element of nature and I find it to be way of connecting imaginatively too. Most plants have symbiotic relationships with mycorrhizal fungi. The tiny white threads of the fungal body link together dozens, hundreds, thousands of plants, and shuttle nutrients e.g. organic phosphate compounds around between the plants in exchange for photosynthetic product. So sometimes when I wander through the city and try to spot which plants are talking to each other through a fungal network. Some of these root networks can be thousands of years old and miles in extent; modern habits of lacing everything with antifungals might be readjusting that a bit but fungi are major-fast genetic responders to new challenges: cf their billion-year conversation with the bacteria via the poisons that each produce. And there are the fruiting bodies of fungi too in some places.
 
 
Ticker
14:13 / 12.10.06
giant fungus for Saturn's Nod

..yeah you probably already know about it but whoa nellie! 'Tis a biggin'!
 
 
Princess
15:33 / 12.10.06
-Offtopica-
Mushrooms have 36,000 sexes? Holy shit.
-offtopica-
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
16:12 / 12.10.06
Can you imagine the Head Shop threads if many ravishing idperfections was a fungus?
 
 
Ticker
16:50 / 12.10.06
er, DB&LG, not to get all up on ya, but id might not like being singled out like that.
Not sure if he cares (he might be totally cool with it for all I know) but it made me flinch a bit to see any one board member directly compared like that.

though I fully endorse analogies about my knitting experiments being just like MONSTER FUNGUS....'cause well, it would be cool if they were.

just sayin'.
 
 
Saturn's nod
09:17 / 13.10.06
whoa nellie! 'Tis a biggin'!

Right, and the kind of humans who write news articles only noticed it cos it was killing stuff.
 
 
*
00:03 / 14.10.06
'Scool. If I weren't out as trans on the board, it would be different... and the joke wouldn't make any sense.

Hm. I may need to revise my poor opinion of fungus...
 
 
EmberLeo
07:59 / 14.10.06
Mmmmmmm Dirtberries!

--Ember--
 
 
Saturn's nod
08:48 / 14.10.06
and the joke wouldn't make any sense.

S'funny, I didn't read it as a joke about sex/gender. I was imagining, what would it be like if everyone was in a symbiotic relationship with entity where your/his 1337 communication & writing skills were being exported to everyone in return for ... ummm ... love and admiration? What can I get ya?
 
 
Rigettle
15:57 / 15.10.06
Rapping with non human "[intelligences]" in a magical way is a very important for me. I once had this thing in which all the grass in the world was a huge network filled with coloured lights & energy & awareness. It was a wondrous being, though quite alien, in a way.

Fungal & other microbial networks may well be processing lots of information & organising themselves in sophisticated ways. I often wonder if some of the "[discarnate]" spirits we rap with in trance & ritual aren't actually incarnate, embodied right in front of us, but unrecognised. Ever have a chat with your gut flora?
 
 
Unconditional Love
04:50 / 16.10.06
Intresting idea, a variety of cultures living and dead(or being reconstructed) embody certain principles in various organs and areas of the body, its possible to personify these organs and areas of the body as deities for example ganesha at the root chakra or the uraeus at the mid brow, so while offering to an altar you are also offering to the respective parts of yourself.

Another example would be mantak chias inner smile meditation, smiling into a variety of organs to keep them happy, filling the body with emotion.

How we communicate with ourselves reflected in our interactions with the nature around us, breaking down the seperation between self and not self. Understanding the unity through the relationship formed.

Older daoist schools literally filled the body through visualisation and meditation with a landscape, as if the adapt were creating heaven in themselves along with an immortal foetus to survive in heaven, once worldly life had passed.

Similar to the idea of micro in macro etc etc, the body itself becomes understood as a temple space, not nessecarily of human architecture (perhaps in the case of egypt) but a carefully cultivated garden of delights, heaven is something you make of your self.

And it didnt just stop with visualisation it was taken into everday activity, the ritual of living, and the rituals we create to live in relationship to nature and others.

Practices in the outer world yoga, tai chi, ceremony are used to reflect the creation of a spiritual paradise in the practitioner that reflect the principles that are trying to be embodied, through living and the perception of nature and our relationship to it.

Feng shui attempts to embody that notion, but without a reflected understanding of the principles involved, astrology, 5 elements, the symbolism doesnt become a living experience.

Perhaps the symbolic understanding and connotative relationship to nature needs to be understood and equated into the experience, to fully embody nature as a cosmology, as many shamanic cultures have done.
 
  
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