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The Doctor's In: The Oath.

 
  

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Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
02:06 / 06.10.06
So, did anyone else pick up Doctor Strange: The Oath #1, written by Brian K. Vaughan with drawrings by Marcos Martin?

Was the Good Doctor always this sarcastic? The comic felt like a sequel to the Milligan/Allread Dead Girl affair, starring Dead Girl's Boyfriend, Stephen Strange in an all-new, all-exciting adventure all by himself.

Well, with help from his buddy Wong and the Night Nurse, as well as cameos by AraƱa and Iron Fist ("Yes, I'm Iron Fist. No, I don't know where Power Man is. We're partners, not a couple"). I walked away being a little disappointed by Martin's attempt at a Ditko-esque "alternate dimension" sequence, but for the part his art was slick and pop-able with some fairly solid Vaughan writing that somehow avoided his usual trap of Pop-Culture-Reference-Once-a-Page. Basic set-up issue, with good character bits -- I'm inspired to read old Doctor Strange comics if he and Wong always got along like this -- and a pleasurable mixture of pathos and witticism. I'm not convinced of the bad guys, yet, although I'm curious about the mystic of some description (standard shadows-drawn-across-the-face routine), reading the Fountainhead and playing with a Asian coin (unsure of the exact currency).

What did other people think?
 
 
Spaniel
19:40 / 06.10.06
I'm not sure how you could have any opinions on the baddies. They weren't really given any space this ish.
 
 
Mario
20:15 / 06.10.06
I found it a little _too_ pop for me. Doctor Strange needs to be a little moody, a little noir. For some reason, his last few appearances have been less surreal, more sitcom.
 
 
Spaniel
20:37 / 06.10.06
Well I'm pretty much the anti-you in that case, at least as far Stephen Strange is concerned.

Not that I wouldn't enjoy a different take, just that I'm enjoying the current one immensely.
 
 
Quimper
20:52 / 06.10.06
Going to agree on Boboss with this one. While I do like a darker, noirish Strange (hell, all characters are great when their window blinds are casting a shadow across their eyes)...I am enjoying the somewhat campy colorful version we're getting now. I'm thinking Allred drawings doing the Strange-tu-si. The man is a walking mushrooms trip.

His astral form is a close-talker and he simply hates incanting in Latin, but the dude can still take down a god from Dimension Pi tell people to shut up with their zen crap.
 
 
Mario
23:21 / 06.10.06
No worries. It takes all kinds to make a thriving comics industry.
 
 
gridley
03:16 / 07.10.06
I'm not sure how it works as a Dr. Strange comic as I'm not really super involved with the character, but I thought it was great fun. I'd definitely recommend it to anyone who digs Vaughn's writing on Runaways.
 
 
ursula1000
04:04 / 07.10.06
oh, this was pop. and i freaking loved it. the art had a nice sub-Darwyn Cooke stroke about it and that one panel of Strange zipping down to his costume ROCKED.
i also thought the astral flirting w/ Night Nurse was supreme.
 
 
Axolotl
14:13 / 07.10.06
I enjoyed this. Solid super hero comic. I liked Arana and Iron Fist's interplay and BKV's Dr Strange was convincingly written.
Like every other Dr Strange series in the past 20 years it will no doubt be cancelled so I won't get too attached to it.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
15:09 / 07.10.06
Isn't it a mini?
 
 
Axolotl
15:28 / 07.10.06
Is it? Good, hopefully that means it will make it to the end of the story.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
16:54 / 07.10.06
ursula: and that one panel of Strange zipping down to his costume ROCKED.

Quite, quite. Oddly, I really liked the Doc's look in his "civilian clothes," and quite liked the panel of him and Wong wandering through the bad part of town, Stephen as usual with his nose in a book on occult theory rather than paying attention.

And again, who would have thought that the Cloak of Levitation would come across as the Strange equivalent of Krypto.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
17:45 / 07.10.06
ok, now i gotta get this comic. love me some 70s camp, if my impressions on this thread are correct.
 
 
Spaniel
18:16 / 07.10.06
I think it should be stressed that this book does take itself a little more seriously than Milligan's (great, IMO) effort.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
18:53 / 07.10.06
In some ways...it's certainly more serious in its use of the tropes. But there's also all that wry acknowledgement of, say, Stephen's arrogance ("You say you were arrogant *before*...?").

More when I'm off work and can look at the thing.
 
 
Spaniel
19:14 / 07.10.06
I only said "a little"
 
 
FinderWolf
18:39 / 27.11.06
Continues to be fun....making Night Nurse a supporting character to the Doc is a great idea. Bendis can be credited with bringing the NN back to the MU...and here comes BKV using her further. This mini has been really entertaining so far; a fresh perspective and a fun tale about the good Doctor.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
21:14 / 07.12.06
Bam! #3 came out this week and we have what amounts to an actual plot twist as our Antagonist is revealed. Doc proves to be quite vicious in his punishments, even if thinking about them makes my head hurt. All this and the drug research division of Wolfram & Hart.

Anyone else pick this up? Martin's art is still slick and sexy and Doc's a bit easier to deal with this time 'round.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
21:42 / 07.12.06
I read it over lunch. In a sleazy caff, in Camden.

It was all right, I suppose, but Brian K Vaughan, who's work I'm not familiar with (was he responsible for that stuff to do with street assasins working for a NYC ethnic takeway - god help him if he was, but I'm possibly doing him a disservce) doesn't seem to have much of a grip on the character. I missed #2, but in #1, Dr Strange seemed to be this louche, vague, Noel Coward-esque figure, so something quite different from the guy who's now dishing out eternal damnation without due process.

For whatever reason, Dr Strange, like the Mighty Thor and Green Lantern, seems to be an extremely difficult character for people to write these days, whereas in the past it wasn't. Why is this?

I should say that I don't feel the Pete Milligan take on Dr S would have been sustainable, on an ongoing basis.

But he's a great character - there's the dark back-story, the cool pad in the village, the extra-dimensional love affair; perhaps no one since Stan Lee has really known who was at the heart of all this? The Sorceror Supreme with shaky hands? Or not.

But enough about Pete.

(I will get my cloak.)
 
 
This Sunday
21:49 / 07.12.06
There's few iterations of the Doctor that I really and truly do not enjoy - even when he's just throwing magick zapbeams about - but there are clearly folks who've written him with some thought, and some just doing a job. I think the interesting thing for me, is when people use Strange's stories as a soundingboard for their own ideas or background on magick, real-world magick, that is. This can go from being a get-outta-jail-free card, to being a highly-structured rulebook of tarot and tea-leaves, or something like Ellis' attempt at earthquake magic (that was the term, wasn't it?) - which makes one wonder where Morrison might take it.

I'd probably just have Strange, y'know, do stuff. Without the stageshow. Just do.

Anybody else care to pitch their how to handle magick for Strange? Inquiring minds are curious.
 
 
The Falcon
23:48 / 07.12.06
I think the Morrison approach of externalising bad emotions and feelings is particularly apposite for a magic title; from what little I know of actual magic(K) there's a connection there, e.g. the demon Choronzon is equitable to the abyss, and then to self-doubt and certain knowledge of one's own death. When Strange spends so much time in imaginal realms like the astral plane (these are the best bits, anyway) it seems kind've a no-brainer. But pretty hard to pull of, I'd think.

Doctor Strange: [I always typo that Strnage. Always.] The Oath #3 was a little disappointing from the cover onwards, I think. Cover first - is that supposed to compose Eternity's face? It hasn't really worked, although it has reminded me that the character does have an outstanding gallery of rogues, none of whom really appear, unless that's supposed to be a giant Shuma-Gorath at the end, but I think not. Anyway, the cover - it's kind of an odd pose too, the right elbow's wonky and he looks a bit constipated. I like the concept, and Martin's art is normally dead-on, just between Stewart and Pulido, so it's maybe just disappointment over a missed opportunity there.

Inside, there are lots of adverts. And some comic, which I'm actually finding hard to pin exactly why I have the feeling that it's slipped from #1 but, problems: 1) fighting pharmaceuticals, while absolutely correct because these people are generally total bastards, isn't really what I wanted from Doctor m'f'in' Strange [typo every time, argh]. 2) actually, this was evident from #1, but Martin cannot draw Ditkoesque astral landscapes 3) Strange [ha! maybe just with the prefix] seems, as Alex says, to have gone pretty hardline in a pretty short space of time; the punishment devised is kinda awesome, though. I like that sort of Moebius thing. Disappointing lack of flirting, howevs. (And I did think this was a nice carrythrough from the Dead Girl mini - that he has these almost but not quite relationships) In retrospect, it was okay, but not startling.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
00:44 / 08.12.06
Anybody else care to pitch their how to handle magick for Strange? Inquiring minds are curious.

Ok, well I'd start from the beginning - Stephen Strange as unforgivable genius yuppie surgeon, walking away from the op theatre cracking jokes while the patient he's just saved is in agony. Stephen would then hook up with a Greenwich village crowd, boho supermodels, gin, ecstasy and so on in a groovy night club, and then the call would come through; 'Stephen' it'd say 'the patient's asking after you.'

Against the better advice of his friends, he'd get behind the wheel of his Porsche. At which point destiny would play it's hand.
 
 
Mario
12:33 / 08.12.06
I think the biggest problem with comic-book magic is not what it can do, but what it can't. Too often, the limits are so vague that the character lacks any real threats.

"Ho hum, it's another elder demon. By the Eye of Agamotto, and the Mystic Moons of Munipoor. Let the Winds of Watoomb show him the door."

I think, for Strange, I'd swipe an old idea from Alpha Flight, and push him more towards a shamanic role. Rather than merely calling on external magical sources, and expecting a positive response, he has to ASK. And sometimes, they may say no.

(That way, his magical style won't change too much. His poetic incantations are too much fun to get rid of.)
 
 
TobiasAC
19:49 / 08.12.06
was he responsible for that stuff to do with street assasins working for a NYC ethnic takeway

Are you thinking of Brian Wood's Couscous Express?
 
 
calgodot
05:46 / 09.12.06
Anybody else care to pitch their how to handle magick for Strange? Inquiring minds are curious.

Similar to the way Alan Moore handled high magick in Promethea. My version of "Strange Magick" would be a syncretic mix of Tibetan, Enochian, and of course some Goetia. The classic incantations are, in my view, de rigeur, but it's time for a few new ones as well. BY THE SHADOW OF SHAMASH!

I also think essential to a Strange revival would be a thorough fleshing out of the global magickal community as it exists in the Marvel Universe. Back stories and story arcs dealing with rival schools of magick, battling sorcerors' guilds, with gratuitous references to contemporary Druidism, chaos magick, and other forms of magickal revival. (You know, kinda like Alan Moore did it in... well, you know.)
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
00:00 / 11.12.06
I also think essential to a Strange revival would be a thorough fleshing out of the global magickal community as it exists in the Marvel Universe. Back stories and story arcs dealing with rival schools of magick, battling sorcerors' guilds, with gratuitous references to contemporary Druidism, chaos magick, and other forms of magickal revival. (You know, kinda like Alan Moore did it in... well, you know.)

I like that idea a lot, but I'd be careful to look at how the global magic community in Marvel is different from the one in DCU; I'm not sure, for example, that something like the "Day of Vengeance" style of "ages of magic" would quite work for Marvel. How would the two communities differ? Would are the essential differences in how the two are expressed?

I'm not familiar with much of Stephen's rogues gallery beyond Dormammu and Mordo...who are the biggies?
 
 
Mario
09:47 / 11.12.06
Nightmare is also a fairly big foe.

I think the best way to take the magic world of the Marvel U is to (paradoxically) make it more mundane. 99% of the magicians of DC are either costumed heroes or costumed villains (the other 1% is John Constantine ).

It might be amusing if the magicians of Marvel, for the most part, are ordinary folks who just simply happen to have some magical talent, to a greater or lesser degree. An unofficial community, as opposed to an organized conclave.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
15:35 / 11.12.06
Didn't Mark Millar once pitch a story treatment in which The Phantom Stranger was reimagined as a 'cool dad' figure from a psychedelic caper movie? Potentially, that could have been disastrous of course, but it might have been interesting; whatever, that kind of approach to Dr Strange, as a kind of ageing occult playboy, might work out well.

So, agreed that he'd more rooted in the here and now - Greenwich Village would be as much a character in the narrative as Hell's Kitchen is in 'Daredevil,' with a slightly cranky Dr Strange bemoaning the gentrification, while competing for the best restaurant tables with Jay McInnerney and so on. A lot of this could be played for laughs, but I suppose you'd have to make the villains as hard-edged as possible by way of a contrast - the occult stuff, then, would be weird, druggy, and terrifying in roughly equal measure
 
 
Mario
18:31 / 11.12.06
I don't think that I'd want a Dr. Strange book "played for laughs". If anything, I'd want the atmosphere a little more unsettling than the regular Marvel U... lots of shadowy corners where things go bump.

If I was writing promo copy, I'd do something along the lines of this:

"There is another world out there, where spirits walk and demons hunt. Where shadows move at the corner of your eyem and nightmares don't always end at sunrise.

One man stands at the doorway, barring the gate.

The Doctor is in, Fall 200X"
 
 
calgodot
00:59 / 12.12.06
I'd be careful to look at how the global magic community in Marvel is different from the one in DCU... How would the two communities differ? Would are the essential differences in how the two are expressed?

Considering that Strange is excluded from all that Civil War silliness, it would seem that the title offers the chance to create a whole sub-universe for Marvel. Strange is "in seclusion" in the Arctic during the Civil War. Perhaps engaged in some otherworldly concerns. Perhaps just meditating. (I'm not sure when "The Oath" takes place w/r/t Civil War.)

The world of Dr. Strange has always only rarely intersected the world of the costume heroes. They are often in awe of him when he appears - some seem to even fear him. His milieu is generally the astral entities, demons and gods who occasionally wreak havoc on earth. Also the occasional curious human who tampers with Secrets Man Was Not Meant To Know. (One thing which springs to mind: how much upheaval did the occult/magic world experience as a result of the Asgard War?) Maybe he's got his own supernatural Civil War business going on. Maybe he's having himself a conversation with the Watcher, ala 1602, about the "traumatic historic upheaval" that's going on as the underwear heroes duke it out.

I'm not familiar with much of Stephen's rogues gallery beyond Dormammu and Mordo...who are the biggies?

The aforementioned Nightmare was often a formidable foe. Dormammu's sister, Umar. Strange also went up against Dracula a number of times. Shuma-Gorath was a major enemy. You could throw the whole Goetia at him in a reboot.

It's time for a Dr. Strange reboot! No more specials! A monthly! A strange world needs a Strange hero! By the deathless Vishanti!
 
 
Billuccho!
02:19 / 17.12.06
Doctor Strange is one of those characters everybody sort of likes but doesn't really think about-- apparently one everybody has a pitch for (including me, I admit. I've got a soft spot for the guy).

Now, I'm not usually a fan of Vaughan's writing, but this has been a pretty good comic so far. It's not necessarily novel in its approach, but it's a nice look at Strange (What if Vincent Price used to be House MD but ended up becoming a sorceror?), a fun revival of Night Nurse, and has Wong kicking some ass. The art is especially pretty, with Marcos Martin coming across as a lovely combination of Steve Ditko and Javier Pulido.

Up next: big monsters. Hell yeah.
 
 
matsya
01:38 / 19.12.06
He's hard to write so he's a guest star and a plot device. "Let's do the magicky story. Doc Strange can guest-star".

I don't know much about the Ditko years. were they any good? I'm guessing the rogues gallery we're talking about here were all Ditko's.

God bless Ditko.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
00:41 / 20.12.06
I don't think that I'd want a Dr. Strange book "played for laughs". If anything, I'd want the atmosphere a little more unsettling than the regular Marvel U... lots of shadowy corners

Well he'd walk between two worlds, I suppose - he'd leave a meeting with Tony Stark, Captain America, Daredevil and such about events in the Marvel Universe, and then he'd have to get serious, about the mortal threats from other dimensions. He'd play poker with the Dread Dormammu, sweating bullets as in the cards played out - I suppose you'd need to get an artist to do this as well as S Ditko (the mystic realms as 'heavy trip') did. Best guess would be Chris Bacchalo, but whoever it was should be allowed to cut loose. Mike A from the Dead Girl series might be all right, but his work there seems too Pop - he'd need to allow more room for the ... dark.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
01:39 / 20.12.06
Fully agree with Bachalo, if you could get him to tone down some of his more recently acquired stylistic tics - maybe just have someone with a cleaner line inking him. Or tell him no big white pages with multiple figures zig-zagging across it haphazard like.

Allred's too pop -- much too pop -- for what you're proposing, and I think Bachalo would work out fine.
 
 
Billuccho!
01:52 / 20.12.06
Bachalo would be my pick for artist too, if I ever pitched a Strange run.
 
  

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