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Robert Anton Wilson May Die Broke and Homeless

  
  

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ghadis
12:32 / 03.10.06
I think this thread can be turned around and made into something interesting.

Can we talk about my Karma please?
 
 
Chiropteran
12:36 / 03.10.06
...why people may need much money to die.

Rushkoff's blog post specifically mentioned that Wilson is "in the precarious position of not being able to meet next month's rent," with the implied consequence that he and his family may loose their housing. It's not really about "need[ing] much money to die," but about being penniless (presumably from medical bills? It's not clear) when there's not much else he (Wilson) can do about it.
 
 
ghadis
12:49 / 03.10.06
Fair enough Lep. These sort of fundraisers for down and out heroes just makes me feel a bit icky and soiled thats all. Like i said, my posts from last night look a bit petty, trite and not particually witty, in the sober daytime. But should of course be left as a warning against the dangers of booze and a monsterous ego.
 
 
Sniv
12:50 / 03.10.06
Doesn't it cost quite a lot to die? In the states especially, you have the medical bills as mentioned, plus the expense of paying for a funeral/buryal afterwards (that's what really scares me about dying, the financial burden it will place on my family).

I'd just like to say too that I apologise for the tone of my last post, I just don't think it's very cool to mock the people that are dying.

Also, instead of quoting from his works, wouldn't it be more apt if we just made up a whole bunch of crap and just said it was from his works? I think he's appreciate that.
 
 
Ganesh
12:53 / 03.10.06
I just don't think it's very cool to mock the people that are dying.

It's arguably coolish to mock the people who are imbuing the dying with mawkish hyperbole, however.
 
 
Sniv
12:54 / 03.10.06
Hells yeahs.
 
 
Ticker
13:11 / 03.10.06
green burials are less expensive.

from national geographic:

Prices start from $250 for a scattering of ashes to $1,950 for a body burial.

"By accident, the pioneer cemeteries performed a conservation value for rare plants," he said of the history of green burials. He talks proudly about the rare and native plants that thrive in Ramsey Creek, including the little blue stem and smooth-leaved cone flowers.

I suspect the money concerns maybe health related as medical expenses even with insurance are often outrageous.
 
 
Mistoffelees
13:13 / 03.10.06
... plus the expense of paying for a funeral/buryal afterwards (that's what really scares me about dying, the financial burden it will place on my family).

Maybe it´s possible to let the state pay, if you cannot?

Here, if people are able to prove, they can´t pay for the funeral, the government has to pay for it (and even the least expensive burials cost a lot of money).

If it´s unclear, who has to pay, the government pays by default at first, then afterwards will try to find relatives to pay up.
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
13:30 / 03.10.06
Should have a return to the old days of paupers graves. Stuff the corpse in a hessian sack, chuck it in and give it a liberal coating of lime. If it was good enough for Mozart, it's good enough for RAW.
 
 
Quantum
13:41 / 03.10.06
RAW has, in one day one one site, got about a hundred pledges for a chunk of cash. I can't be arsed to count it up, but he doesn't look to be in any danger of a pauper's grave to me. He has my sympathy and respect, I love his work, I hope the petition helps and it looks like it will, but crikey what a poor thread. Was this really in the Temple? I'm glad it moved before I got here.

Ghadis, I can't believe you killed Barbelith, you utter bastard. DEAR READER, BARBELITH OUR BELOVED MENTOR IS FACING A PAUPER'S GRAVE!! DIG DEEP AND SEND WHAT YOU CAN, TO SCATTER THE ASHES IN CISLUNAR ORBIT AS PER IT'S WISHES WILL COST A MILLION QUID, HELP!
Sorry. Good luck RAW.
 
 
Liger Null
13:59 / 03.10.06
When you think about it, the whole thing is kind of scary for the rest of us. I mean, RAW was pretty successful financially, wasn't he?

I'm not financially successful, and I am unlikely ever to be. If massive hospital bills can reduce the Wilson family to begging online for rent money, how are my own loved ones going to be able to cope in a similar situation?
 
 
grant
14:00 / 03.10.06
Doesn't it cost quite a lot to die? In the states especially, you have the medical bills as mentioned, plus the expense of paying for a funeral/buryal afterwards (that's what really scares me about dying, the financial burden it will place on my family).

Well, it's not so much the funeral costs (although those can be quite hefty, even for simple funerals) as the cost of dying, especially if you're self-employed, responsible for your own insurance, and have next-of-kin who can legally be saddled with debts left after that insurance runs out.

I've just spent the last week and a half going through this with my better half's enigmatic uncle -- funeral was last Saturday. I'm wearing one of his shirts right now....
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
14:02 / 03.10.06
Financial success doesn't equate to financial pragmatism and electing to have good health care.

Still, I find it a little sad that someone with so many rich mates is currently running destitute. I hope that should I find myself in a similar situation, I will know who my friends are.
 
 
Liger Null
14:04 / 03.10.06
Maybe his mates aren't financially pragmatic either.
 
 
Sax
14:04 / 03.10.06
"My ass-candle, no blame!"
 
 
grant
14:07 / 03.10.06
RAW was pretty successful financially, wasn't he?

I kinda doubt that. Well, I mean "successful," sure, he earned a living. Probably made more than I do. But I'm not sure how well any of the books really sold. Like, I doubt his earnings were anything close to, say, Carl Hiaasen's or Clive Cussler's.

I could be wrong about that, but I'd be pretty surprised.

And he was self-employed, which means outside the corporate system of health insurance.
 
 
Chiropteran
14:20 / 03.10.06
And he was self-employed, which means outside the corporate system of health insurance.

He also suffers from post-polio syndrome, which can get very expensive. My mom's annual pps-related medical bills (thankfully covered by my dad's insurance) are close to double my own yearly salary.
 
 
grant
14:35 / 03.10.06
This is exactly What Is Wrong With America.

You lucky, lucky British. And Canadians. And, well, everyone else.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
14:45 / 03.10.06
(I'm pretty money-poor, relatively; so I sent a version of this Email to the address provided via my hotmail account earlier today, and [coincidentally?] I've been thunking nice thoughts about this Great Soul All week, especially today, after hear this potentially upsetting NEWS.)

________________________________________

Subject Title: A Worshipful Email of Love to My Illustrious Ancestor RAW.


All Mighty RAW:

I have read many of your Great Works. YOU have been an Inspiration to ME; YOU ALWAYS are; YOU ALWAYS Will BE. Without YOU and the rest of my Illustrious Ancestors I wouldn't be whom I am today.

I want to thank you for that. Thank you, you kind Great Old Dilemma.

Apparently, according to the Interweb, you need some of that Evil Green Stuff(?) at the moment? Unfortunately, I have little myself, very little, at the moment. But if I win, earn, or steal a large amount of money before Xmas and YOU ASK ME for it: I will give you 23% of whatever amount I plunder. Promise. X.

I do not know what an Amazing think muscle like yours would do with this 23%: but I Trust that you will use it (as aways) to make another Extraodinary Leap into the Unknown for the Universe to move Forward.

Nothing Truly Dies. YOU HELPED TO TEACH ME THAT. Thank you. x

By the way, did you hear about Neil Armstrong lately? How he didn't "fluff his lines" as the media have accused him, for years now...? Turns out, he said it just right (well, for him, at any rate). Never forget the "A" in....

A-men.

Eh?

p.w

X?+-*/O:=X {<------ and other Universal Symbols of Love}


________________________________________


I also entered the Virgin Radio Big Star competition last night after reading this thread. Unfortunately, I refuse to give them my phone number and Real Name; and I couldn't work out how to enter my "guess the amount". Maybe we could all try to plunder some money from somewhere and try to get it to The Great Soul? If he isn't skint and dying (and this is a blag), at the very least Someone might do something Amazing with the Green stuff, for A change.... non?

Oh, and The Almight RAW will leave us when HE chooses. Surely WE ALL know that, non? I figure he'll wait to Xmas day or Halloween or another day of his choosing... And then we should Dance, dance all night, bang our sandals off the ground, slaughter rubber chickens, wail to the Heavens, scream at the Hells; and send a huge Comsic Triggered Kiss to OUR Illustrious Ancestors; ALL OF THEM!)

Forgive; do not Forget.

All Will BE Made Manifest. They are the prophets: YOU are the MEssiah.

One Love.



P.S. My Watch Is Fucked. Sorry Big Barbelith. It was ALL my fault; as usual. Please forgive me?

X
 
 
Chiropteran
14:54 / 03.10.06
Armed With Madness, you're off the hook.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
14:54 / 03.10.06
I think before the fans put any money into the cause it should first be demanded that everyone who has ripped of Illuminatus! throw some cash RAW's way. He could die a billionaire.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
15:21 / 03.10.06
There's a line between trading quotes and acting like the man has been running around setting fire to cats and torturing babies, rather than, y'know, writing books which - whatever you may think of them now - were definitely important to some of us at the time. And, for what it's worth, I sincerely doubt there'd have been The Invisibles if there hadn't been Illuminatus. In which case, of course, no Barbelith. So it's maybe a bit awful that this is the best the board can do.

Not surprising, maybe, but a bit awful.
 
 
Ganesh
15:22 / 03.10.06
I'm ashamed of us.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
15:26 / 03.10.06
Sorry ALL. I needed time out to think, shake my head, do a Ghost Dance, and listen to the LOVE/ANTI-Love CD's....

And after much deliberation...

YOU win; I LOOSE.

It's up to you now.

Forgive or Forget me?

I always LOVED RAW.

Good Bye, BB.

x (<---- that's a borrowed mark. Today, for me, it means that I am knocking over my OWN King/Parents, with LOVE...)

  
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:27 / 03.10.06
Is Barbelith dying?

To be fair, only Armed with Ghadis has really taken the piss so far, and he's apologised. And perhaps people are donating without talking about it. I think some of the momentum was probably taken out both by Ghadis' early posts and Kim and Mik's unequal and opposite reaction. I've never read anything by him, so I am limited, really, to expressing my best wishes for him and his family.
 
 
illmatic
15:35 / 03.10.06
Might possibly be a good idea for someone to start a Temple thread sumarising the actual ideas in his books, stating how much they've got out of them? I would say I'm looking at you, Kim & Mak, but seeing as you only pop up once every three months to slip in a crappy barb teling everyone else how appalling they are, and never contribute anything else, I won't hold my breath.

I do think this is sad news. I really like the old guy. Cosmic Trigger 1 & 2 are both brillant books, IMO. The same sense of sticking together loads of exciting ideas that you get out of the best of The Invislbes with obviously a lot of similar thematic concerns. I'm still really fond of them.

Off the top of my head, the ideas would be:

* The 8 Circuits stuff. I think this as a "Rosetta stone" to occultism (see Cosmic Trigger), this doesn't work (for me) but it grounds and connects lots of concepts and experience to the body, in an interesting and creative map.
* "Reality tunnels" - you may scoff, oh Barbelith, but at least he gives practical exercises (Promethus Rising) to work with here, rather than throwing it as an internet insult. Grounded in and influenced by General Semantics.
* Big advocate for psychedelia and magic, combining Crowley with LSD (see Cosmic Trigger)
* A general boundless optimism, borrowed in part from Bucky Fuller. See all his books. The depth of reading, and openness to new sources of information he showed in CT2 really impressed me.
 
 
illmatic
15:37 / 03.10.06
Oh, of course, if anyone wants to run with that as an opening Temple post, be my guest. Be good if someone with some practical experience could add something though.
 
 
HCE
15:42 / 03.10.06
I had no idea he was so severely ill. Sorry to hear it. Quite enjoyed the Illuminatus books.
 
 
grant
15:45 / 03.10.06
Actually, the idea that this stuff is something one could have practical experience with is an idea I can trace directly back to reading RAW. I mean, sure, maybe I was just of the right age and he happened to fall into the right slot between Carlos Castaneda and, I dunno, making sense of science homework or something. But fall into that slot in my head he did.

Oh -- so, like, ritual behavior is really a tool to alter brain states? I never looked at church the same again....
 
 
illmatic
15:49 / 03.10.06
Yeah, Grant, I agree, I don't think I got it exactly from RAW, but he certainly fell into that spot in my head... so, he's defintely been an influence on me, albeit indirect.
 
 
Quantum
16:20 / 03.10.06
He popularised a lot of stuff, which is great- Leary's circuits, E-prime etc- and is an excellent introduction to loads of things, I like his style of writing, enjoyed the Illuminatus! trilogy, I've got several of his books and love Quantum Psychology especially (there's an old Temple thread going through the exercises I believe), he's name checked in the Books forum description I believe and is generally well liked.
The problem I have is with the presentation of the thread. As Armed With.. drunkenly said, it's basically spam.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
16:30 / 03.10.06
in case you don't know, Barbelith is over. it never recovers from this.

And you didn't even get the chance to fnord us
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
16:36 / 03.10.06
acting like the man has been running around setting fire to cats and torturing babies

Who's been doing that in this thread, Nick? That sounds terrible.
 
 
Ticker
16:42 / 03.10.06
Ishtar Rising is a great little book about why female breasts scare the crap out of the Establishment. It's a sampler for feminist minded just out of the egg occultists. I often open it when I lack suitably silly but well educated companions as it reads like a visit to one's crazed uncle who is pro-sexins'.

For me, RAW is to the esoteric as Heinlein is to sci-fi.
 
 
Quantum
17:02 / 03.10.06
RAW is to the esoteric as Heinlein is to sci-fi.

What, a slightly creepy, avuncular solipsist with a sex obsession? Fair point. I don't know why I love them both but I do, I think it's because even one or two Stranger in a Strange Lands will forgive any number of Time Enough for Loves. I suppose the RAW version of that is Cosmic Trigger outweighing the Golden Apple, I cut them some slack because of their past form, much like posters on Barbelith.
 
  

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