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My Religious Backstory

 
  

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grant
18:25 / 28.09.06
You're a Jewish Catholic Calvinist?

>blink<

Whoah.

(For those unfamiliar with Dutch Reform, in my encounters with the sect, it comes across as ultra-stern and kinda creepy. They were, among other things, the state religion of apartheid South Africa. Literalists. They also run a couple private schools in my home county -- grim-seeming places. This is only my impression.)
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
18:56 / 28.09.06
I think the congregation we were part of was pretty laid back as far as these things go, most likely due to the rural area (not many churches to choose from) and a Pastor who rode a motorcycle and hosted a Revelations thinktank.
 
 
LykeX
20:47 / 28.09.06
I'm not sure how much, I can really share on this point, but I'll try anyway.

I was raised by two atheists, the children of further atheists, so religion didn't really figure into this. They weren't dogmatic about it, it was just never an issue. Consequently, religion was a fairly small part of my life until my early teens.
There were a few things, though. I loved religious education class, since it mostly consisted of the teacher reading stories. Since it was a secular class, there was no pressure to actually believe any of it, so I just enjoyed the stories on much the same level as I later enjoyed our teacher reading The Hobbit. I was also enthusiastic about myths, especially the norse stuff and later the Oddysee.

I guess the lack of any religious upbringing left me somewhat free to judge the religions I've come across without much bias, positive or negative, and I find them all to be limited. I draw inspiration from a great number of sources, but I can't get myself to fully believe any of them. I currently consider myself an agnostic, and if I ever do get involved with a particular religion, it will probably be on a personal level, not organized.
I've only ever been engaged with an organized religion once, the Hare Krishnas. Although it was most educational (and some great people), I just can't seem to fit myself into a group of this sort. In the end, I'm in this for myself, not for god or anyone else. I'm a thorough individualist and anti-authoritarian, so the whole surrender thing doesn't work for me.
Sometimes, I feel very disconnected. It might be nice to have some place to belong, but it always seems like I'd have to sell out who I am to do so. And so, there I am.
My spiritual practice, as it is, is mostly centered on the idea "know thyself". Since myself is me, it makes sense to start there, and, ultimately, I think yourself is all you really can know. To reach this goal, I use a fan of science, meditation, psychology, psychedelics and occult theory.

One last thing I thought about while writing this:
My mother still considers herself an atheist, but a few years ago, when her second husband died, she did a curious thing. She set up a small "altar" (though, she probably wouldn't call it that) with a self-portrait of him and put "offerings", glasses of soda, in front of it. She did this for several months. I found that very interesting as a sort of spontaneous ceremony. I wonder if this is a common thing to do to handle loss? Anyone have experiences like this?
It's somewhat off-topic, but I just felt like mentioning it.
 
 
LykeX
20:55 / 28.09.06
Actually, there's one more thing. Although I've never been able to take christianity seriously, I have an intense attraction to churches. I don't think I've ever been to a service, but I love walking around in churches, sitting in them, looking at the architecture and the images. I often go church-seeing. "Gotta catch them all".
 
 
Evil Scientist
11:20 / 29.09.06
I have an intense attraction to churches. I don't think I've ever been to a service, but I love walking around in churches, sitting in them, looking at the architecture and the images.

I have a similar attraction to pretty much any kind of holy space (churches, temples, etc). They're places in which people have invested a great amount of faith and hope. I always try to respect anywhere if it's considered sacred to someone.

Churches are nice places to sit and think when they're empty (or they would be if I didn't burst into flame when I walked into them).
 
 
Unconditional Love
12:57 / 29.09.06
I have a similar attraction to church cemetaries and cathedrals, the cemetaries are filled with the most profound peace, its the one place i can really become empty, filled with empty, most tranquil places.

Cathedrals like Wells near glastonbury and winchester are also beautiful places, i love the quality of echoes in these spaces, especially one room in wells, where you can hear the sounds of the rest of the space, beautiful acoustics. These places can be so full of sound that i find myself overwhelmed, god goes all dub inbetween those walls.
 
 
grant
13:41 / 29.09.06
I wrote a thing about church architecture here, in the midst of a rather prickly thread about Catholicism.

Sometimes, I feel a little like I'm a Free Zone Catholic. The Free Zoners were people who dropped out of Scientology because they couldn't stand the weird hierarchy and authoritarian rules, but still followed the basic beliefs and "tech" of the religion. Clearing out the thetans & engrams and all that.
 
 
Unconditional Love
14:05 / 29.09.06
From the link you provided, i guess you could consider sound the invisible omnipresence, i am not sure where the room in wells cathederal is in relation to the structure but it captures that presence in the form of echoes and whispers.
 
 
Spaniel
19:26 / 02.10.06
I'm currently writing mine. It's possibly the longest post I've ever written.
 
 
Elettaria
20:57 / 07.10.06
Born Jewish.
Raised Jewish.
Still Jewish.
Actually, there's a lot more to it than that, but I'd be more inclined to discuss it in an environment that didn't come over as so anti-religion.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
21:05 / 07.10.06
Well, that is one of the things that this topic was supposed to help rectify.
 
 
aluhks SMASH!
21:35 / 07.10.06
Actually, I would be very curious to hear the rest of your story, Elettaria.

Muck like LykeX, I was raised in a deeply non-religious household. My mother is a hardcore atheist who comes from an entire family of hardcore atheists (with a Buddhist aunt who all the rest consider a little bit crazy) and my father left the Catholic church in the 1970's over their stance on women's reproductive rights. From the way he talks about it, I get the sense he was never a particularly devoted follower in the first place. As a result I've only ever seen the inside of a handful of churches or synagogues (mostly for weddings).

I guess that I inherited my family's lack of religious practice and some of their difficulty in comprehending religious belief as a source of political motivation, but I got none of their fundamental disdain for it. Quite the opposite; I find myself actively trying to make sense out of something my childhood seems to have left out. Basically, I empathize completely with LykeX's statement:

Sometimes, I feel very disconnected. It might be nice to have some place to belong, but it always seems like I'd have to sell out who I am to do so. And so, there I am.

Lurking around the Temple (and Barbelith more generally) off and on for the last couple of years has, however, done a great deal to open me up to the possibility that belonging to a group need not mean giving up critical examination of it or stifling one's own views. So I guess I'm just intensely grateful to see this thread developing so well, and hope nobody finds it a threatening place to share their whole story.
 
 
Seth
00:22 / 08.10.06
Actually, there's a lot more to it than that, but I'd be more inclined to discuss it in an environment that didn't come over as so anti-religion.

Sorry if some people here sometimes seem that way. I'm pretty religious but just haven't got around to posting to this thread yet (plus I've banged on about my churchy background so much on here that I assume everyone's sick of hearing about it).

Tell us about yourself. If you're a friendly open-minded person I can't see you having too many problems, and if people treat you unreasonably then a) fuck 'em, and b) be reasonable and argue them into the ground. I think the vast majority of people here will have no problem with well written, interesting and broad minded posting.
 
 
Quantum
10:37 / 08.10.06
If people treat you unreasonably then they will have their posts deleted and get shouted at. I don't think anyone will though.

My religious backstory- although it's not a religion, my parents follow Prem Rawat (or Maharaji), and have my whole life. Since it doesn't involve a church, or membership, going to satsang or ashrams etc. it doesn't really have much impact on me except that I don't know as much about Christianity as most people. I might get knowledge one day, but really I've been left to decide for myself. My parent's attitude is essentially that religion just isn't very important.

I find it difficult to identify with people who feel really strongly anti-church, as it simply fills me with a mild but waning interest. I have much more time for people who have a relationship with a God(s) because it's more interesting to talk to them. I suppose I'm a kind of atheist, or maybe agnostic, yet I do believe Gods exist. Weird.
 
 
Ticker
12:49 / 08.10.06
I suspect I'm heavily pro religion in the sense that I believe religion functions as an operating system which frames a person's cosmology and promotes their ability to have a functional reality. I'm anti reactionary non adaptive religion that does not assist adherents' ability to navigate their reality in a healthy manner.

Usually my questions for religious people are:

1. Does it get you through the rough spots?
2. Does it help solve proplems with other people?
3. Does it help you solve problems with yourself?
4. Does it bring you joy?
5. Does it exclude/include things for reasons you believe are out dated?

Finally I hold in high esteem any religion which can be boiled down to:

1. Don't be a jerk.
2. It is your choice.

..because I personally believe these create dynamics for playing well with others.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
13:38 / 08.10.06
sk raises the question of religion as a personal whatever and as a cultural identity. I was a teenager when my sister was born and my mother decided to turn over a new leaf. She had my sister baptized and confirmed and took her to a progressive (whatever that means) Catholic church in Brooklyn sporadically for four or five years. The main sermonizer there (I don't mean to be glib or anything, I just don't know what he should be called) was a middle aged guy who talked about how, even though the Catholic church appears to be monolithic and authoritarian, it's a global organization and is very diverse. Catholic priests in South America are murdered for resisting drug lords; in Eastern Europe they lend authority to a holy war against Muslims. So, what does it mean to call yourself a Catholic?

In his autobiography, Ghandi talks about how his attitude toward religion changed when he visited Europe as a young man. He followed Hindu custom at home because his mother nagged him into it, not out of any strong faith, and he hadn't intended to be very rigorous abroad, but encounters with two separate Europeans changed him. One was an atheist who, when Ghandi talked about faith in God, took a supercilious tone and talked to him like a child. The other was Madame Blavatsky. Interesting.

So, you religionists, are you religious for personal reasons, as xk outlines, or for cultural ones, and how do these functions overlap?
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
13:38 / 08.10.06
Sorry, "xk" not "sk".
 
 
*
16:45 / 08.10.06
Elettaria, as someone not born Jewish but with Jewish family, raised secular, and very respectful and curious about Judaism, I hope you will feel courageous enough to tell us some of the more you hint at.

I went to synagogue for the second time in my life, and the first time in my life as an adult man, not too long ago for Rosh Hashanah services, and it was the first time I ever felt Jewish. I would be interested in talking with you more.

I think that Barbelith is not an anti-religious space, but it may tend to be an anti-authority space, and a handful of people here confuse religion with authority. So you get some valid criticisms of religious authority, and some juvenile rebellion against authority in the guise of religion, and some combinations of the two.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
20:56 / 08.10.06
Just so's everyone knows, I've brought up the "is Barbelith anti-religious" question again in the Policy thread on moderating the Temple, as it's something I'm particularly interested in myself.
 
 
kaonashi
21:27 / 08.10.06
I've had a number of abortive attempts at socializing on this board. Most of them ended quickly because of my arrogance, this is my last.

Tell me to go away and this time I will honor your wishes.

I grew up in a small Brethren church in the American Midwest, very small 60 people max. My father was the pastor and my mother taught my Sunday school classes.

This environment was very devout, almost stultifyingly so.

My mother and all the other women who attended our church had decided (do to some obscure New Testament writings) that they must wear headcoverings whenever they worshipped.

When I was about 12 my parents took a look at the situation and decided to move to another church. I was painfully introverted as a child, if not a borderline Aspergers case. They thought that having other people my age at the church we attended would be better for me and my siblings.

My father eventually became a pastor within the Evangelical Free Church, at the moment he leads a congregation of about 200 in Central Minnesota.

In May I moved back in with my parents, I'm 22 and still in school. I am not a Christian, but some of C.S. Lewis' Universalism/Humanism/Daoism definitely rubbed off on me.

I've looked to this forum as a source of information in my search to better understand my reality, some of the things written here have been very helpful. Particularly some of Seth and Grant's ideas.

Thank You All
 
 
Quantum
08:55 / 09.10.06
kaonashi, and everyone else who's contributed thanks for your posts- great thread. Let's see if we can make people think of the Temple as a pro-religious space.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
09:43 / 09.10.06
Woah, let's not get carried away. There's still a lot that can go wrong with "being religious." Let's make the Temple a safe place for thinking critically, okay?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:27 / 09.10.06
Well, quite. Neither "I h8 Xtianz nevar agane t3h burning times!!!" nor "Look, I can call homosexuality an abomination if I want, it's in the Bible" should be welcome here.
 
 
Quantum
12:47 / 09.10.06
And they aren't. Let's make it a place people feel able to talk about religion as well as magic. Pro-Religion doesn't mean just Christianity, does it. Anyway, here's the thread to talk about that.
 
 
KnofC
21:31 / 09.10.06
hey all! long time lurker, small time poster

i'll try to avoid any religion bashing, but please realise that this is how i saw things at the time, and how they subsequently altered my views to what they are today.

i was brought up as Roman Catholic, which to me meant more 'why do i have to get up early on sunday, when many of my friends got to stay in watching all the cool cartoons?' than anything else. i guess i just didn't get it, it just seemed like a load of grown-ups standing around saying the same thing week in/week out in that same monotone drone you'll find in many Catholic services.

My dad was also in the army, so i found it rather odd that here we were being taught not to kill, and to turn the other cheek/love thy brother etc. and yet my dad, and indeed all the other dads there, had a job which solely involved helping peoploe kill other people. i found early on that when awkward questins like these were raised people got a bit antsy. regardless of this, my main concern was that i was missing those precious cartoons.

skip to later on: my dad had left the army and had been, for a number of years, trying to start up his own business. it waas finally getting going when it all fell apart. and badly. to the extent that he commited suicide. i was only 14 at the time. suddenly the universe became a hugely forbidding place. the next year my mother had a series of near fatal heart-attacks. what little faith i had just vanished. i didn't trust the universe anymore, people kept dissapearing from it for no apparent reason. no faith in the universe= no faith in god. i could no longer reconcile what i had been taught through religion to what was happening in my life. all i knew was that despite the fact both of my parents were good catholics, in the end it just hadn't mattered one iota.

for a while science became my religion. it was the only thing that made any sense, and more to the point it promised nothing, it was simple fact and i could see it happening, as well as understand the hows and whys. so i chased science for a long time.

on the way i was introduced to other ways of thinking, i kept finding bits and pieces that seemed to resonate in me. i took away these pieces and cobbled together the somewhat half-assed pseudo-religion i practise these days.

basically i found that there wasn't one way of doing it for me, plenty of religions make mighty fine points on how to live with your fellow people, and i've come to realise that it's the people who screw it up. we seem to have a knack for taking an idea, then running so far over the touch line that we end up playing a completely different game. so i chose not to stick to one thing, instead creating more of a melting pot for the bits i liked. all very egocentric. but i often find tailor-made just fits better..
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:35 / 20.10.06
I spose I ought to jump in and support this thread really, oughtn't I. This is about how I had a religion, but I lost it, but it was okay on the end because I found another one.

Okay. I started out as a Roman Catholic. My mum was raised Catholic and my dad was recieved into the Church as an adult (a bit before they got married, I think). Until I was about six or seven we went to church every Sunday. I went to a playgroup where they sung hymns as well as nursery rhymes. I had Ladybird books Bible stories and coloured pencils that said God Is Love down the side and everything. Then my parents had some kind of big crisis of faith and we went from being Catholics to being (officially at least) a family of atheists. I maintained a sort of sketchy, private theism which I kept very much to myself. I prayed sporadically, and even experienced a couple of episodes of religious ecstacy.

When I was about 9 or 10 I discovered the Wiccan worldview, the whole mother-Goddess, horned-God concept. It didn't quite seem to fit right somehow but it made a lot more sense to me than the male-centric monotheistic model I'd been raised with. It also seemed to address certain restrictions and taboos that I had come to think of as cruel and unnecessary. As I got older I was given things like Graves' The White Goddess to read, also any number of appalling fluff-pagan and -magic texts. (Magic has always been an enormous and intrinsic part of my spiritual life. I can find no way to separate them and refuse to try.)

Weaving in and out of all this were the various religious, magical and spiritual activites of other family members, aunts talking about their Spirit Guides or ghostly visitors, my mum's stories about her Catholic childhood, glimpses of ritual and faith that seemed both profound and superstitious.

So I sort of beetled along for years in a kind of half-baked paganism, not really knowing what I was doing or what I believed or what I was for. Most of the books I had access to dealth with either Christian mysticism or the Celtic deities; despite the fact that I loved Their stories and took to mooning after Brigit for months at a time, I never really felt a sense of connection with that pantheon and magical workings evoking Them were always a bit lacklustre. By my early teens I was getting a sense that there was something I should be looking for, but I couldn't find it.

I got into the runes at about age 14 and fell in love with them; that naturally lead me to a desultory study of the Northern pantheon (or what I could glean fourth-hand from cheap rune texts anyhow). And that became my main focus, such as I had one, for the next seven years or so. In my early twenties I decided to start 'working with' the Norse Gods (having taken on board the rather tedious Great'n'Powerful Mage propaganda that treats worship as a dirty word).

I petitioned Odin for help with my poetry. Fortunately He ignored me completely--my poetry still sucked but on the plus side I didn't get tricked out of my firstborn or anything. Having not been appallingly stupid enough for one lifetime I then put together an evocation to Loki, who I petitioned for 'change.' This last was a resounding success, fucking everything up royally for about a year and resulting in ripples of suckitude that even now reverberate across my life. Despite having got precisely what I asked for I was very upset, and got in an even bigger state when following the working He wouldn't leave me alone. The final straw came when He started hijacking my Walkman. I shut down completly, no more petitionary pray or evocation, no more deity work of any kind. That was me, for about a year. I think I did a couple of Tarot spreads in that time.

Following my year of shutdown, I got into chaos magic as it offered a way to practice in an entirely secular format. Evoking pop-culture figures seemed a heck of a lot saner than Gods. As time wore on I began, very tentatively, to engage in spirit-work again, and eventually began practicing ancestor worship. This became my spiritual focus, and I was perfectly content. I had a small shrine in a box, I burned incense and offered drinks of water or tea, spoke to them every night and had a special long chat on Sundays. It was the most meaningful spiritual activity I could remember engaging in, and left to myself I would never have looked for anything else.

But about a year later I had my big religious experience. Loki reappeared in my life, and this time He wouldn't be got rid of. My first serious Loki working was intended as a polite kiss-off: Here's your seat at the party, here's some nice food and a few beers, now goodbye. It... kinda didn't work out like I planned.

Instead I had Loki announced that He was my patron, the Aesir (plus Vanir and several Jotnar) were my pantheon, He liked strong coffee and orange-flavour Tang as libations and the sooner I got used to the arrangement the better.

I got religion. I may have needed to be lamped over the head repeatedly before I got it, but I got it in the end.

At first I was kind of clueless but I began making a serious study of the myths and legends associated with the pantheon. I began reading the extant literature dealing with Them and the people who once worshipped Them. I read texts on modern NT worship like Kveldulf Gundarsson's Teutonic Religion, and generally started hoovering up every scrap of information I could. I constructed harrows, and now I make regular offerings. And Loki was right; They are my pantheon. They talk to me. I commune with them. They have enriched my life in countless ways, some small, some large. Ancestor and landwight worship remain at the heart of my spiritual faith, but that's okay--they were at the heart of the NT paleopagans' lives too.

So far I've been content to identify as a heathen, because it's a nice loose term with lots of wiggle-room (although people still challenge my right to use it). Recently though I have begun to think that the term Ásatrú might actually be more appropriate.

I find myself largely at odds with mainstream heathenry. Firstly, I am nonFolkish--I emphatically do not subscribe to the odious but all-too-common belief that only people of Northern European ancestry can or should worship the Tivar.

Secondly, magic. Magical practice is not an intrinsic componant of NT worship in the way it is a part of, say, Wicca, but the current trend to reject all magical practice entirely is a mistake IMO. I am a witch and mine is a magicoreligious practice. I perform ecstatic rites. I perform divination and runic magic. I am what's called a woo-woo heathen.

We are not popular.

Thirdly, Loki. Opinion is divided over Loki. On one hand you have people like me, who argue that while He's not an unmproblematic figure He's a God, very holy, and entirely worthy of reverence. On the other hand you have practically every other heathen on the planet, who think He's TEH EVAL. Trickster, liar, kinslaying pervert, Jotun, etc, etc. Apparently it's not a proper religion unless you have some heretics to shout at and a Satan-analogue to alternately spit on and cringe before.

Still, there ya go. I can justify everything I do and believe from lore, and therefore have no problem with calling myself a heathen--or even Ásatrú, since my primary dedication is to the Aesir. Which is more than a lot of the Folkies and Loki-bashers can do.

So there you go, that's me.
 
 
Ticker
17:07 / 20.10.06
The final straw came when He started hijacking my Walkman.

... I gotta ask, He was taking your portable music player places? Or am I totally misunderstanding you?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
18:15 / 20.10.06
No, He was using it to say stuff. It was very creepy.
 
 
Quantum
18:56 / 20.10.06
I thought for a moment you meant he sent you musical messages so I googled it and found out that Ukulele Loki can be spotted strolling throughout Boulder from time to time. "He identifies with another time".
 
  

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