BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


The right KIND of nostalgia

 
 
Ganesh
23:32 / 02.09.06
Is there such a thing as the right kind of nostalgia? As I type this, I'm listening to Scott McKenzie's If You're Going To San Francisco (Be Sure To Wear Flowers In Your Hair) and singing along, drunkenly. I contrast this with the Dark Queen of Reheated Evil Nostalgia, Sandi Thom, in order to posit that my kind of nostalgia is a nicer, more genuine, whatthefuckever kind of nostalgia.

I'm not sure that I have that much of a leg to stand on, however. Prove me right or wrong, Barbeloids, by addressing the following questions:

1) Is nostalgia ever a Good Thing?

and

2) When?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
00:37 / 03.09.06
Hmm... I have, as I believe I've posted about extensively elsewhere, a huge sense of punk nostalgia. Not your 76/77 punk, mind you... I love the Pistols and the Banshees, but more the anarcho-punk stuff that came afterwards... for me, Crass were the Golden Age of English punk music. And I never heard them until a year after they split up. So it's kind of misplaced nostalgia, really...

I love Conflict mostly because they recall these "halcyon days" of anarcho-punk, despite me not actually being there for them.

Strangely enough, I heard a thing on the World Service last night about the history of punk, and my initial reaction was "you don't know what the FUCK you're talking about", despite having been about six when the stuff the commentators (who clearly DID know what the fuck they were talking about) were talking about actually happened.

Is this in any way comparable?
 
 
*
06:48 / 03.09.06
1) Sure.

2) When it is pleasant.
2a) To me.

Corrolary: Summertime will be a fogbank there.
Postscript: Until the cold deep-sea current into the Bay is all cooked by the disastrously warming oceans and there aren't any more San Francisco fogs ever again.
Post-Postscript: Then I will be nostalgic for San Francisco fog.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
17:11 / 03.09.06
Well, by it's very definition, Nostalgia is looking back and warmly remembering a past in an unreasonable fashion. So, if you look back fondly to a time when things were actually better, at whatever level, that's (possibly) okay- but it isn't nostalgia. Also, that "(possibly)" means that even when the past was actually better perhaps it is best not to dwell on it/try and recreate it.

Of course, all the above assumes that it's possible for "the past" to have been "better", or indeed that it is possible to objectively prove it. I guess you could be nostalgic for, specifically, a nice music scene that used to exist somewhere, or a time when a given musician was around: this is what I mean by "at whatever level", because, like, that scene in the early 60s might have been great, but what was going in the bigger picture? Do you really want to make everything like it was in the 60s? And is today really so bad, and, as Thom would have us beleive, not as good/authentic/real/poetic/revolutionary blah blah blah? Of course not.

I think Flyboy pretty much said it with (I paraphrase) "Music from the past should be loved and bent into all sorts of new shapes but not revered as a gold standard". So, recalling a good idea that existed earlier is no crime, but don't pretend it was the only good thing that ever happened.

I guess that means you should be seeing the old greats as a kind of pallette, mixing old and new, making old new again. E.g., Dandi Wind seems to be doing this- though I haven't really heard enough of her stuff, she's got a voice that sounds kind of Siouxsie, kind of music hall, and then beats that sound like Bangra or hip-hop. Outkast, too- they have a bit of an old-time vibe, a bit of a Funkadelic flavour, but it's all space-age. Also Goldfrapp: there's plenty of your glam-rock cool in there but again, it's all been manipulated into some alien love-scream from another planet. Which, of course, is exactly what's supposed to be happening, and what made those sources- music hall, Siouxsie, Funkadelic, glam- good in the first place.

Whereas- well, why should I spend hard-cadged creds on a Razorlight gig or record when they're doing nothing beyond sounding a little bit like a bad copy of Patti Smith? Or, notice how Orange Juice sound infintely more interesting than The Killers or The Bravery, simply because there's a sense of "Why not?" in OJ's music that isn't there in the latter two.

From talking to people who are into this stuff, a large part of the appeal actually seems to be about being able to "rate" a band on how well they can recreate a given "golden" period- which of course they are fighting to defend against "evil modern mainstream music" like Lady Sov. It could be described as "scholarly", but then scholars are supposed to look for new interpretations in the text. The image that really comes to mind is an Airfix model-making contest.
 
 
grant
19:17 / 08.09.06
Well, by it's very definition, Nostalgia is looking back and warmly remembering a past in an unreasonable fashion.

Actually, the "-algia" part refers to pain. (Like neuralgia.)

Here's the etymology. The root words actually mean something closer to "homesickness."

I've thought of nostalgia as a kind of disease I suffer from ever since I learned that, sometime around 1992. Those were the good old days, I tell you....

I mentioned this in the "STMTCG:Crass" thread, but there are certain songs that can generate feelings of nostalgia for me without my actually remembering them, or even necessarily evoking an earlier time. The first (well, first two, packaged together) Magnetic Fields album does this really well, but it's in part by using old 1960s chord progressions & drum beats.

"Glow in the Dark" by (I think) The Bongos did it, "South Central Rain" by R.E.M. did it, "One Step Ahead" by Split Enz did it, and my god I just named a bunch of songs from like 1986, didn't I. But at the time they sounded nostalgic to me.

What for, I'm not sure. Lost summers of elementary school by the beach?
 
 
Jackie Susann
21:16 / 08.09.06
I have something similar with the Team Dresch album, Captain My Captain. For ages I remembered it as having been something I played constantly in high school, until one day I looked at the date on it and realised it didn't come out until after I graduated. But it evokes the feelings of that time - alienated, depressed, shy queer outsider in a small town - so well, it feels like I was listening to it.

Anyway, clearly nostalgia in music is a wonderful thing and the fact there are dumb counterexamples doesn't mean anything. Without nostalgia we wouldn't have, for example, Biggie's Juicy, the musical episode of Buffy, or sample-based hiphop.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
09:49 / 09.09.06
or sample-based hiphop.

Yeah, uh, that's not nostalgia though is it? I mean nostalgia in that context would surely mean giving the classic soul and funk a kind of religious reverence, not using it for moulding, sampling, scratching etc. It would mean desperatly trying to create those old records again, intact as they were, rather than using them as clay. This isn't just Seigfried/a getting given his father/mother's sword, this is him/her melting it down and forging something new...
 
 
grant
01:39 / 10.09.06
I dunno, a lot of those funky loops have that strange *sound*.

Team Dresch album is that the one with "107" on it? That song somehow sounds like high school to me, but came out about a decade too late.
 
 
Jackie Susann
06:58 / 10.09.06
Legba, I think you're defining nostalgia so narrowly it's impossible for it to produce anything good. Have you ever hung out with producers when they talk about old records? They are fucking mental. They spend hours and crazy money digging through record bins, they know obscure details about forgotten record labels that nobody else cares about, they can rhapsodise individual snare hits from lame album cuts from 1962. If that's not nostalgia I don't know what is.

Grant - yeah, it is.
 
 
Shrug
11:34 / 10.09.06
What about the inputting of vinyl crackle on tracks where there should be none? I can't think of a clear example right now but nostalgic, no?
 
 
All Acting Regiment
14:11 / 10.09.06
Hmm, point Jackie...
 
 
Tsuga
22:57 / 13.09.06
I think it's fascinating when I hear a new song and have some feeling akin to nostalgia. It all comes down to the amazing abstraction of music, how particular notes or chords can evoke some depth of complex emotion, the difference between the same notes played with a single violin compared to a harmonica or a group of funk horns or a Stratocaster with a particular pickup. Like all art it's at least partially derivative, certain sounds become shorthand for particular emotions and get recycled and reincarnated, sometimes in the most creative ways. One example I can think of (maybe not the most creative but it's what I can think of) is "Spaceboy" by Smashing Pumpkins. There is a kind of quavering, I think synthetic? violin sound in the background. When I first heard the song I wondered why it made me feel kinda nostalgic. After a while I realized that the background was basically the same as Leonard Skynard's "Freebird". A-ha...

I think that is what's so powerful about sampling in music. You can take a piece of the original music- all the emotion and connections people have with it- and sprinkle it into a new song like a potent spice. Very effective, sometimes.

But there's nothing like hearing a song that totally brings you back to a time or place and the personal emotions connected with it. Nostalgia may be an illness (if so I'm pretty afflicted), but I kind of like it. It's bittersweet, but it seems the sweetness usually takes the edge off the bitter. Not to be too cornball.
 
  
Add Your Reply