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Sigil emergency

 
 
thomas the doubter
10:52 / 31.08.06
Link

this is a very important personal sigil. i would ask anybody to charge who wants please.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:10 / 31.08.06
*dons mod hat* Oooohkay. I understand that this must be something very important to you and I feel a bit bad about taking you to task, but...

First off: we don't generally care much here for one-post spellbegging or sigil-charging threads.

Secondly: I personally don't much like to participate in magical workings if I don't know the purpose. Maybe this is a spell to find a missing person; maybe it's a spell to make your ex-girlfriend's legs drop off. How do we know?

Thirdly: These plz charge teh sigil workings have seldom been very effective in my experience. They tend to be clumsy, lazy and poorly thought out. Maybe if you told us what you're trying to achieve, some of the people here could help you put together a more sophisticated working.

Finally: You have to be logged into Myspace to see the image. Not everyone has a Myspace account. You need to post it somewhere it'll be visible to anyone who wants to help.
 
 
Quantum
11:58 / 31.08.06
i would ask anybody to charge who wants please.

I want please. That'll be a tenner. Is that what you meant?
 
 
thomas the doubter
12:27 / 31.08.06

<<<<<<<<<<<<
Thirdly: These plz charge teh sigil workings have seldom been very effective in my experience. They tend to be clumsy, lazy and poorly thought out. Maybe if you told us what you're trying to achieve, some of the people here could help you put together a more sophisticated working.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

it's about a person i lost. or better this person lost me emotionally although there was no real reason. but it's not just a my-heart-is-broke-bring-my-boyfriend-back-sigil. since there is this distance between us, i'm not only on a downwards spiral emotionally, soon crashing on the floor but strange and terrible (e.g. suicidal friends) coincidences are happening in my life. so i think there is also a spiritual significance to it.
i wanted to ask sb else to charge the sigil because i think i am too involved in this spell to make it work.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
13:15 / 31.08.06
i wanted to ask sb else to charge the sigil because i think i am too involved in this spell to make it work.

I think that's quite likely, yeah. But with this technique, you're still heavily involved in the spell. You've formulated the statment of intent. You've created the image.

Have you thought about a different approach?
 
 
thomas the doubter
13:26 / 31.08.06
well i've tried several rituals to get in contact with those deities who've helped me in the past. but the outcome wasn't what i hoped for. e.g. a sacrifice to ganesha has always worked until now. but in this case i wasn't successful.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
13:47 / 31.08.06
Hoom. I can't really comment on what might have gone wrong there because I have only the vaguest picture of your situation and I don't know what you asked the big G for.

However, in my personal experience I tend to find that if I ask my Gods to help me with something and They don't, it's because I've buggered up in some way rather than Them simply refusing. I've asked the wrong Person, or I've formulated the intent badly--or, more likely, I'm not allowing myself to have the thing I've asked for. No-one, not even a God, can give you what you deny yourself.

With me it's wealth spells. Okay at casting them for others, bloody useless at casting them for myself. This is because on some level I have all these messed-up beliefs about the use of magic to obtain material weath, beliefs about my own worth, and so on and so forth. All the sorcery and petitionary prayer in the world did nothing for me until I started convincing myself that it was okay for me to have money.

Could you be doing something similar? Getting in your own way?
 
 
thomas the doubter
14:22 / 31.08.06
well, it's difficult to explain the situation because it's so complexe and multi-layered that i would have to write a book about it to draw an appropriate picture.
a short adumbration:
at the beginning i didn't want that the relationship to him becomes too tight. on the one hand we have a complicated past and on the other hand there is going to change much in my life soon. but then we we grew together more and more. suddenly there was a gap though. at first only a small crack. then he drifted away.
and now i'm stuck like in a trap. closeness and distance. constantly changing. mostly ash then fire again. and more and more other parts of my life disintegrate.

significant signs:
when our relationship started to decay i saw a lot of dead animals (a raven, a fawn,...)
yesterday when we met suddenly a rabbit appeared in front of us but i can't see the rebirth right now.

i always call Ganesha as the bringer of joy, luck and happiness, the one who tears down all obstacles. i asked him to lead the guy back. there was no difference to the other times. same scheme as usual. i only stressed the importance of this request.
another goddess i asked to help me was venus. she told me that i would have to bleed and i gave her blood. then she said everything would be fine.

i don't think i wouldn't allow it myself. my will is focused. i can't find any hidden blockades.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
15:17 / 31.08.06
i asked him to lead the guy back.

Okay. That right there? That could be your problem. You can't ask that this man be lead back to you until and unless he himself is good and ready to come back. Otherwise what you're essentially asking is to have control over another person, to make him stay with you. I don't see Ganesh being on board with that.
 
 
thomas the doubter
15:33 / 31.08.06
at first: thanks for the afford and the help.

yes, that could be the crucial point. perhaps that's something ganesha can't or won't do.

i've always avoided to get in touch with darker spirits cuz i'm aware and afraid of the fact that this often leads to spiritual stress. the hard way. but maybe this time the nature of this case begs for getting dirty. i'll need really good banishing strategies then.

or any other suggestions?

feels like a viral spell infecting my life or bad karma befalling. and the crux seems to be him.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
16:01 / 31.08.06
i've always avoided to get in touch with darker spirits... but maybe this time the nature of this case begs for getting dirty.

Dude. I suggest that Ganesh won't help you because what you're doing is unethical, and your response is to look for a less ethical Being to help you out--What's wrong with this picture? How about re-evaluating the situation and coming up with an approach that doesn't risk violating your lover's free will?
 
 
The Ghost of Tom Winter
16:12 / 31.08.06
i've always avoided to get in touch with darker spirits cuz i'm aware and afraid of the fact that this often leads to spiritual stress

feels like a viral spell infecting my life or bad karma befalling. and the crux seems to be him.


I don't think using magic to force someone back to you will help your karma at all. Maybe you just need to cleanse yourself of that viral strand you mentioned. I found what works well for me when I'm getting foggy headed is a complete change of pace, something totally unusual or different. A trip perhaps or even a walk to someplace I haven't been. Maybe work on asking your gods to get rid of that viral thing you have instead of wanting him back. or banish this guy from your life. looking towards the 'darker stuff' won't help you here.
 
 
illmatic
16:21 / 31.08.06
or any other suggestions?

Let it go? And use the subsquent surrender as a way generating "free belief" to charge something else.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
16:28 / 31.08.06
Kind of 'what they said.' I'd suggest some kind of cleansing or banishing spell to get rid of any ick that might be clogging up your life. Me being me, I'd go for a modified version of an Uncrossing spell, substituting an appropriate passage from Northern lore for the psalm.
 
 
Chiropteran
16:39 / 31.08.06
I'm not only on a downwards spiral emotionally, soon crashing on the floor but strange and terrible (e.g. suicidal friends) coincidences are happening in my life. so i think there is also a spiritual significance to it.
/snip/
feels like a viral spell infecting my life or bad karma befalling.


I would suggest a thorough cleansing and/or uncrossing for yourself then, before you get too wrapped up in working the relationship. That just might be enough to help the relationship problems all by itself, and if not, you'll still be in a healthier place personally, and can go on with further work from there, if you still feel it's necessary. Otherwise, you might be rearranging deck chairs on the Hindenburg.

Relationship/reconciliation work can be very tricky, and sometimes even the most potent magical efforts will fall short because the circumstances that caused the problem in the first place haven't been remedied. That's why I think it's especially important to be very very clear EXACTLY what you want and why you want it. And, perhaps even moreso than in many other types of magic, the means you use to reach your desired end have very important implications for the eventual outcome - using "darker spirits" or sneaky tricks to snare someone back doesn't say much for the level of trust and respect within that relationship. I am very much not suggesting that you intend to be dishonest or underhanded, but I do think that you should examine your methods just as closely as your goals.

I think one also has to be very careful attributing meaning to even the most compelling of apparent omens. Runs of bad luck, nasty coincidences, unusual phenomena may all scream "SIGNIFICANT!", but what exactly they mean can be harder to unravel. Be careful of acting on unverifiable information. Omens can be very helpful, but they can also easily mislead.

Take care, and I wish you the best.
 
 
Chiropteran
16:40 / 31.08.06
[Wow, mega-crosspost. Seems we're all thinking along similar lines.]
 
 
illmatic
18:12 / 31.08.06
To follow on from my rather brief post above, with regards to "asking other people to do it for ya" thing. I'd assume that you're operating under the assumption that the more people charge it the better? Which in turn rests on the assumption that sigils work by someone charging them with energy? I think "charge" is a very loaded word, and responsible for a lot of muddied thinking on the subject...they don't work by some mechanical acculmulation of *magickal energy*.

IMO, when they work (and you're not just fooling yourself), that's not how they work at all. I think that they work by virtue of the power of forgetting, and the magick happens when you detach yourself from, or better yet absently mindedly forget about, a situation. I think Spare's sorcery is a complex meditation on the absence of self consciousness. The power of abandoning your consciously held desires so that energy finds another outlet. "A great saving for a total spending", I think he once refered to it as.

Bit more complex than I wanted it to be, this post, but where I'm leading to is that you seem to be tied up very tight about it, precisely the opposite kind of state of mind that Spare recommends for allowing this stuff to happen at all! ("The Death Posture - "the dead body of all we believe ... know it's reality in anhilation of law, - the acension from duality"). Duality in this instance would be your the tension caused by your desire and your awareness that you don't have it.

Getting a bunch of strangers who don't know anything about it to charge it over through the utterly removed and non-tactile medium of the internet isn't going to do anything to resolve it, IMO. Give up what you think you want and think you know (easier said than done, but it's the because the emotions are so tenacity of these emotions that makes them good fuel for magick), and see where you are then.

I will post something a bit more practical based on this kind of thinking if you find the above at all interesting or useful. Sorry to post what you don't really want to hear but this stuff is a lot truer to the ideas of sigils as derieved from the work of their orginator (Spare).
 
 
illmatic
20:36 / 31.08.06
The hopeful invalid curses his sickness because he has lost the power of transference ; pain makes him entirely devitalised and nothing is more devitalising than such forced concentration.


A quote which might bewilder more than enlighten but I thought it was relevant. You've started me on a bit off a Spare jag.
 
 
Quantum
17:45 / 01.09.06
A sigil to charm a boyfriend back against his will. Isn't that the exact example often used to illustrate unethical magic?
Thomas the Doubter, would you use drugs or violence or manipulation to get him back? If not, why would it be ok to use magic?
 
 
EmberLeo
21:24 / 01.09.06
I think one also has to be very careful attributing meaning to even the most compelling of apparent omens. Runs of bad luck, nasty coincidences, unusual phenomena may all scream "SIGNIFICANT!", but what exactly they mean can be harder to unravel.

I agree. I tend to thinks there are no coincidences, but not every message out there is directed at me.

In my experience, when I feel like something is going wrong, I fix that thing. When I feel like everything is going wrong, I fix MYSELF.

If you feel like a lot is going wrong around you, I suspect it's more likely that you are out of synch with your world, and, as just about everyone else has said, you need to work on yourself first.

When it comes to love specifically, it's a fairly simple truth that what you cannot find in yourself you will not retain from another.

I think that [sigils] work by virtue of the power of forgetting

My father used to tell me I needed to forget my intentions for a working to get anywhere, and I could never do it. I've gone back to bitch at him a few times over that one, because it blocked my work for the longest time that I would fret over my inability to simply forget.

I finally realized that the problem wasn't one of forgetting, but of letting go. There's two major ways to do this, both of which Thomas is trying or has tried, but isn't following through as far as I can tell.

1: Give it to Somebody Else, and then trust them.

2: Do it yourself, and then trust yourself. Forget the work, give up entirely, or be completely certain it will work as it is. Ultimately, it doesn't matter what mechanism you teach yourself for letting go. What's important is that your Will not still be engaged to your Intent when your doubt kicks in. If you keep pushing, every fear and whim that goes by will be applied to the work, and you end up with a big, useless mess.

i asked to help me was venus. she told me that i would have to bleed and i gave her blood. then she said everything would be fine.

So trust Her? You're having difficulty with a relationship. You gave a proper sacrifice to a Goddess of Relationships. She said it's going to work out fine. She knows what She's doing.

Part of the problem may be that you're not trusting Venus and Ganesha's judgement about what you should actually be recieving. Don't get me wrong, I don't think the gods are infallible, but if you trusted Them enough to specifically request Their help, you need to let them do the job Their way.

--Ember--
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:17 / 02.09.06
This thread has some discussion on the ethics of love spells.
 
  
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