Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Temple >

Will the demotion of Pluto mean anything to magical folks?

MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!

16:52 / 24.08.06

I'm not much aware of the magical side of things -- this section of Barbelith is the extent of my reading on the subject, except for a copy of Controlled Chaos I read back in the late '90s (IIRC), some Tarot-dabbling in university, and the filtered stuff I get through Morrison's comics and the odd issue of Promethea.

So this is strict curiosity about the structure/nature of magic and how it is impacted by decisions like "Pluto isn't, scientifically, a planet any more".

Does this... change anything for people whose magical/spiritual work deals with the planets?

I was going to post something in Laboratory about it, but then realized I had nothing particularly insightful to say on the subject, and the more I thought about it the more intrigued I got by all the subtler changes this might bring about, and astrology/magic sprang to mind.

I'm pretty sure that Crowley predates Pluto anyway, but if Pluto got incorporated into planet-based mystical work following its induction into the Big Nine, will it now have to be phased out?

20:55 / 24.08.06

Eh. It's too new for Holst to have made a theme song, so I can't see getting too worked up over it.

13:01 / 25.08.06

I honestly don't tend to use planets per se... but I don't see why this would have too much of an impact, the sun and moon are often (as far as I'm aware) included under the heading "planets" in the magical usage thereof and their scientific classification as other than hasn't bothered this usage. Having said that, they do have fairly obvious impacts on our daily lives, whereas I don't notice Pluto.
*shrugs* I mostly doubt it'll bother people who use it, but I could be wrong.

13:10 / 25.08.06

Well, the Mi-Go are going to be pissed off for sure.

Unconditional Love

13:20 / 25.08.06

Do you fancy starting an adopt a funguy from yuggoth scheme? bloody awful.

13:34 / 25.08.06

Eight, by the way, makes the planets fit with Chinese esotericism a bit better.

Which gua for which planet?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

13:40 / 25.08.06

Bit outside my field, of course, but if one was satisfied with the results of working in a system where Pluto = a planet, why mess with that? What do we even mean, "Planet?" I don't see why the magical definition of a planet has to accord neatly with the scientific.

Unconditional Love

13:58 / 25.08.06

The Stellar Sovereign of the Five Planets and Seven Stars Grant this is a good read on taoist planetary conception (not priests giving birth to planets)

14:23 / 25.08.06

Something else to keep in mind is that Pluto is still there doing its thing just like it always has, no matter what people call it.

15:04 / 25.08.06

Sin: The Five Planets are the Year Star (Jupiter)1, the Sparkling Deluder (Mars)2, the Grand White Star (Venus)3, the Chronographic Star (Mercury)4, and the Quelling Star (Saturn)5. Together with the sun and moon, they are called the Seven Stars. Daoism worships the Seven Stars as spirits and calls them Stellar Sovereigns.

That's beautiful!

06:28 / 26.08.06

The only area where I worry at all what is and isn't a planet is Astrology. Astrology is something I have fun with, and find interesting, but aside from it's use as a "magical filing cabinet", I don't practice it much.

I don't think this'll be a problem because other large Solar-System objects are already included as planets, like Vesta, Ceres and Chiron (not Charon, whose influence is merged with Pluto). Of course the Moon and Sun are both considered "planets" from an Astrological perspective, too, so it really, really doesn't matter.

--Ember--

My Mom Thinks I'm Cool

11:37 / 14.09.06

in a somewhat potentially related point of information: one of those new planet/planetoid whatses, previously named Xena, has now been "officially" named Eris (with accompanying moon named Dysnomia).

Are Discordians going to party like it's 1999 tonight or what?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

14:30 / 14.09.06

Dear God. Be on the lookout for novelty squirting bowties, people.

14:42 / 14.09.06

Ha! I love it. Eris takes over. So perfect. Well done, scientific community!

23:22 / 14.09.06

I should be embarrased by my reaction...but I'm not.
That fucking rocks! I want to piss down my own throat in violent excitement! Hooray! Hoorah! Hoooroo!!

23:27 / 14.09.06

I had a worrying thought then...
What if this is some genius Discordian prank?
Happy News:
it's not

23:43 / 14.09.06

Wonderful!

I'm raising a drink to Eris right now!

14:23 / 15.09.06

[annoying childish voice on]

"Eris got a planet! Eris got a planet!"

[annoying childish voice off]

Nice!!!

23:04 / 15.09.06

Okay, THAT completely rocks. I've fowarded it to many friends of mine who will enjoy the link.

Thanks to a variety of other threads in other areas, the first question in my mind, however, is "Okay, so what does Eris mean, astrologically, then?"

I mean, to me that implies a conflict area, and the question is, where does it fall on your chart that your greatest conflict area will be, and if she moves slowly through the signs, where any given generation is likely to encounter conflicts on a global level.

Curiouser and curiouser...

--Ember--

08:38 / 16.09.06

More mischief than conflict surely- we already have Mars.

13:17 / 16.09.06

Depends if the planet is named after the greek or the discordian Eris, doesn't it? - Strife or Mischief/sexy c-c-craziness!

Either it will cause random fuckups and troubles for people whose star it's playing with, or it will cause them to have their r3al!ty tu|\||\|3lz me$$3d w!th!

How frequent is Eris's orbit? How often do i need to watch out for people telling me off for using the word 'is'?

But on a serious note: Will the naming of Eris have much effect on the astrological community or the effects of Eris itself? Had people classified the effects of this astral body prior to it having a funky mythological name attached to it?

Does astrology work on the assumption that the planets have a direct action on our lives, irrespective of how we perceive them or name them, or does it assume that our actions of naming and conceptualisation of the qualities of these planets 'creates' the effects they have on us? Does Mars do different things to us as The Sparkling Deluder?

I'm sure the matter isn't as binary as that, but still... Is Eris suddenly a planet (in the astrological use of 'planet') that causes strife/mischief, now that it's been named? Does the name mean nothing to the effects of the planet (have they been classified anywhere)? Or will the naming work to start a synthesis of the 'conceptual' effects and the 'objective'* effects?

Still. Pretty cool name for a planet.

* Not really sure what words to use here - i mean to make a distinction between the effects the world have on us that are mainly informed by our own conceptual framework ('conceptual' effects) and those effects that are mainly independent from our concepts ('objective' effects). Does that make any sense? What are the proper words for these distincions? I'm aware that 'subjective' could be used, but it carries a lot of baggage - the subjective is often seen as irrelevant to debate as it isn't 'real'...