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Oracles, Seers, Soothsayers, but perhaps not Prophets...

 
 
EmberLeo
21:16 / 14.08.06
Seidh.org

This came up in the Anglo-Saxon Futhork thread. I'm a member of Seidhjallr, and thus practice Oracular Seidh, which is specifically the modern Heathen method. It involves journey, and ritual, and trance, and has significant connections to Ancestor worship, and working with the dead.

There are other traditions that have similar methods. The Delphinian Sybil or Pythia is the most often cited. They were virgin priestesses of Apollo. It's my understanding that Apollo posessed the priestess to provide the oracle.

--Ember--
 
 
grant
13:37 / 15.08.06
So, how does this work?

You just set up a chair in a living room or something?

Is it part of a religious observance (like a church service), or just something you do every so often (like, I don't know, making pasta)?

Would you consider this a form of spirit/god possession?

How does this act interact with your sense of self or ego?

Would you consider it a form of meditation?

Is it accurate? Does the question of accuracy even matter in the practice?
 
 
Ticker
14:32 / 15.08.06
The Awen from the Irish/Welsh* traditions maybe used in this manner.

I've experienced the awen in ritual storytelling and I rarely remember what I said only the images it brought with it. Though the function was not so much for visions of the future but for the stories themselves. I've been told that I have focused on members of the audience during it to tell them specific things.

When the awen comes on it feels like the story I'm telling begins to tell itself and my consciousness shifts. I can hear my voice but my attention is on the roll of images cascading by and I become a conduit for the story and do not direct it any longer. Often I'll speak in cadence and/or have the sense of something else speaking through me.

I keep a bull's hide for the purpose of bardic ritual though I haven't needed to be wrapped in it.




*I'm prying my fingers of the problematic word 'Celtic'.
 
 
grant
15:16 / 15.08.06
That sounds a lot like it resembles Spiritualist services....
 
 
Ticker
15:33 / 15.08.06
That sounds a lot like it resembles Spiritualist services....

..yeah 'cept I never tell anyone they are hearing anything other than the output of my imagination nor do I claim the Dead are having a moment at the mic.
 
 
EmberLeo
20:46 / 15.08.06
So, how does this work? You just set up a chair in a living room or something?

The way we usually do it involves a ritual ceremony that, along with the question/answer session, can take as much as few hours (usually 60-90 min, I think). We know the ritual serves an indirect purpose. Each element does have a direct purpose, and taking the time for it is helpful, but a lot of the reason we take as much time as we do, and sepparate out so many steps that could possibly be done together is that it gives enough focus and settling in we all - not just Seidhjallr, but the participates who may never have experienced Oracular Seidh before in their life - are working together.

We can, and sometimes do, perform a stripped-down version that amounts to setting up a few chairs in the livingroom and doing the minimum necessary ritual bits, but even then we'd have trouble with it if the space wasn't set appropriately and at least temporarily dedicated to the task without interruptions.

The full-length ritual includes several songs and invocations (and at the end, the equivalent devocations) honoring the various powers that help in the work. That's usually Freya who first taught Seidh to the gods, Odin who brought it to the people, the Norns who know all fate/wyrd/orlog, the Ancestors who guide us, and who are often asked for information, and, when the journey involves Helheim, Hella, for letting us tromp through Her home. Since the ritual we practice involves some shamanistic concepts, we also take the time to invoke Allies - specifically the Raven of Hrafnar, who is Diana's ally, and will guide anyone who needs it for the ritual.

Is it part of a religious observance (like a church service), or just something you do every so often (like, I don't know, making pasta)?

Well, I wouldn't say it's as casual as making pasta, but it's not so much part of a religious service as it is a religious service. Seidhjallr does it 4 times a year at a particular Unitarian church, and at various campouts and festivals as requested.

Would you consider this a form of spirit/god possession?

Not by default, but most of us are also trained in posessory trance, and that does sometimes happen if a querant requests an answer from a specific source. Even then it's not guaranteed, as the seer could simply relay the message as told to them, rather than the god posessing them and speaking directly.

I will say that once I am in an oracular trance, the transition to posessory trance is incredibly easy - easier than I'd like it to be, sometimes.

How does this act interact with your sense of self or ego?

Wow is THAT a complicated question! But it's exactly the sort of thing I'm working on right now, so I'm glad you asked. This whole thing came up for me last February and I've been working on it ever since, trying to wrap my brain around it.

See, Oracular and Posessory trance both require me to be... Well the word we use is "ergi" but that has other meanings that confuse the issue. The closest comparison I'm aware of is "subspace".

My problem is that I'm not a sub, generally. What happened last February was that I was in the chair for Seidh at PantheaCon, which is a pretty big festival, and we had a pretty large crowd. Lots of energy to work with. Full length ritual. I'd been working and ritualing for two days already. My dear friend and lover was standing chair for me, supporting me. My teacher was guiding. Everything was set up perfectly for me to get knocked so far into Otherspace and "ergi", receptive, passive, whatever-you-call-it mode that when Odin was asked for, He didn't have to check in with me at all before just posessing me outright.

And it wasn't okay with me. What was scary wasn't just that He could overcome any objections I might have had. What scared me was that I wasn't in a place where I was capable of offerring any objections!

I've been fighting ever since with this uncertainty as to what self really is, and how it relates to a right or ability to be sepparate. A bit on the rational side I can point out to myself that it took an awful fucking lot to move my control-over-self out of the way such that Odin could do that, and wow, did I do a really good job that night as a result. But on a more immediate level I'm just terrified to have that there at all. That it's possible to sort of trick me into giving uninformed consent to have my self just completely ignored like that.

But I can never articulate the problem very well, as I'm not here. I've been fighting to articulate the problem for months and I still can't explain it. *sigh*

Would you consider it a form of meditation?

Umm... I consider it a form of Trance work. To me, meditation is an individual practice, not an interactive practice, so I suppose I'd say no.

Is it accurate? Does the question of accuracy even matter in the practice?

Is it accurate? Well, the seers are still fallible, certainly. I think we tend to assume that just because they answers we are reaching for should be accurate doesn't mean we're guaranteed to percieve and relay the answers correctly. People tend to come back and tell us when we got it spectacularly RIGHT, but don't mention it at all if we got it wrong, so it's hard to say. We're not pretending it's a science, but we're not totally ignorant of the psychology, anthropology, and I suppose physiology involved.

A lot of the questions we get are highly symbolic and personal, so getting it right amounts far more to touching the querant's psyche or spirit in the right way to get them to figure out their own work. In that sense I'd say it's highly effective.

--Ember--
 
  
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