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Djinns

11:19 / 18.07.06

I'm interested because we're currently in Marrakech, where even the Time Out guidebook warns us to take djinns seriously. Apparently Marrakchis will commonly avoid pouring boiling water down the sink plughole for fear of scalding (and thus offending) the djinn who might live there.

I've come across djinns before, in Community Psychiatry: in one notable case, the Middle Eastern woman in question manifested a (conveniently English-speaking) djinn possession state right there in my office. Dramatic stuff.

Anyone here have knowledge or experience of djinns?

13:46 / 18.07.06

I know there was discussion of them before on here.

The most recent thing I've read had to do with the status they share with fairies as angels that never fell, but never fought on God's side either. I don't know where that story comes from, but I'm guessing it wasn't, like, independent to both, but sort of cross-fertilized between them. I also wouldn't be surprised if it was an idea that came from the Crusaders or whoever, original with djinn but got stuck with fairies as it spread westward.

So, like fairies -- in the old sense -- but also like angels. Mysterious, powerful.

14:02 / 18.07.06

Having read the wikipedia article, I'm now inclined to think the angel-story might be original with fairies and stuck onto the jinn. I can't remember where I read it -- probably something loony about the Book of Enoch.

This bit: According to the majority of Islamic scholars, clear evidence exists in the Qur'an that the Devil was not an angel (as thought by Christians), but a jinn, citing the Quranic verse "And when We said to the angels:'Prostrate yourselves unto Adam.' So they prostrated themselves except Iblis (The Devil). He was one of the jinn..." Surat Al-Kahf, 18:50. According to Islam, angels are different physical beings, and unlike the fiery nature of jinn, they are beings of goodness and cannot choose to disobey God, nor do they possess the ability to do evil. Evil Ifrit (pronounced AYE-FRIT) in the The Book of One Thousand and One Nights are called "the seed of Iblis".

Oh, well.

I still think there's something fairy-like about 'em. Wights, I suppose.

Unconditional Love

14:25 / 18.07.06

Old post by Grant good article at the top of the page.

Djinn Theirs even a cure for your client in this article Ganesh, not sure it would be good practice thou, heh.

The jinn's power of possession was also addressed in the Nights. It is said that by taking seven hairs out of the tail of a cat that was all black except for a white spot on the end of its tail, and then burning the hairs in a small closed room with the possessed—filling their nose with the scent—this would release them from the spell of the jinn inside them.

I hope the patient recovered. Does it help to treat the patient within the context of them being possessed?

Unconditional Love

15:11 / 18.07.06

A couple of links that provide alittle more information to the fiery picture of djinn.

solomons temple

Pre islamic paganism

These arent exactly about djinn, but are imo intresting so i will stick them here, they are both pdf files and direct links to the pdfs.

Tarot in Tangency with Ibn 'Arabi's Life and Teachings 1

Tarot in Tangency with Ibn 'Arabi's Life and Teachings 2

Hydra vs Leviathan

21:02 / 21.07.06

I was under the impression that the Jinn were an order of created beings somewhere intermediate between angels and humans, being immortal and not-bound-to-physical-form like angels, but possessed of true free will in the same manner as humans (thus, just like humans, capable of being either good, evil or, much more commonly, a mixture of both and neither). Some of them are inclined towards doing humans favours, some to doing humans harm or playing (not necessarily malicious) tricks on them, some prefer to leave humans alone; however, they're not so much "neither righteous nor fallen" as, like humans, capable of being any of the above...

There is a definite similarity to Celtic/Norse/East European stuff about elves, fae, trolls, etc (and indeed to Tolkien's Elves, which are quite possibly derivative of a (Gnostic-ish) christian theology which contained beings like jinn - there are actually hints in the New testament of a similar category of beings existing, with Paul (IIRC) referring to "angels" and "spirits" separately on a couple of occasions).

I believe the various Christian and Islamic sources differ on whether Iblis/Lucifer is/was an angel or a jinn...

Re the "bogeymen" bit, I also find the idea of Jinn interesting as (some) Muslims tend to see them as a quite literal, prosaic even, explanation for what we might classify as "paranormal" or "Fortean" phenomena - poltergeists, UFOs, "Old Hags", cryptic humanoids, etc...

I had one (kind of) Muslim friend, who had a long struggle with (probably endogenous) depression who at one point claimed she "had talked to the Jinn, but they didn't help". Make of that what you will...

Oh yeah, from what (little) i've heard about Ifrits, you really wouldn't want to mess with those fuckers...

Hydra vs Leviathan

21:53 / 21.07.06

Old thread on Fortean Times forum about Jinn

08:46 / 22.07.06

That link is only readable if you're a Fortean.
Genie fun facts;
The word "jinn" literally means anything which has the connotation of concealment, invisibility, seclusion and remoteness
and
Prior to the arrival and initial codification of Islam on the Arabian Peninsula in 622 CE, year one of the Islamic calendar, the physical centre of Islam, the Kaaba of Mecca, did not hold only the single symbol of "the God" as it does now. The Kaaba was instead covered in symbols representing the myriad demons, djinn, demigods and other assorted creatures which represented the profoundly polytheistic environment of pre-Islamic Arabia.

Hydra vs Leviathan

16:16 / 22.07.06

That link is only readable if you're a Fortean.

Oh really? Bollocks, it must be because they changed the board software recently (to bring it in line with the other forums owned by FT's publishers, i believe. Boo hiss commercialism, etc). It's still free to register there AFAIK...

ceilingsarecool

16:34 / 23.07.06

A few years back I had several Muslim students in my care, and when it somehow came out that I am a magic-worker one of the first things they told me about was djinn. The djinn, according to these former "kids" of mine, were viewed as a sort of "parallel people" much like the fae can be, and stories were told of djinn haunting basements and reciting the Q'ran for hours on end. Others told me that the ability to control djinn gave some men in particular a kind of rebel social status, but how those djinn were controlled and for what was never something I could eke out from our conversations. It was my understanding that any magician that lost control paid dearly for it -- if they're a fae-cousin or eastern fae, I could see that and appreciate it.

But I've also read some magical texts that equate djinn with fire elementals, which would make them something that had to be controlled, rather than something where control was purely a demonstration of magical prowess. I've thought about exploring the djinn and what they are on a magical level, but it's wholly my speculation they're handled a bit roughly by their own culture's ceremonialists, and I don't know the most gentle way to begin.

08:37 / 24.07.06

I think the equation of djinn with fire elementals is because in western elemental magic Djinn is the name of the Elemental King of fire. I have always felt that this was something different to the Djinn/Jinn/Genie's found in Arabic folklore.

I too have always seen them as beings which live slightly out of sync with us and perhaps people experiences of shadow people is another window on the same phemonena. I do suspect that they are what other cultures would call Faerie and perhaps modern persons might even called "Aliens" - There are many parallels between the UFO "abduction experience" and experiences of being kidnapped by Faeries and Djinn. I also wouldnt be suprised if the biblical legends of the nephilim also point to the same phenemena.

From a magical perspecive there is a very good chapter in "Secrets of Ancient Magic: Path of the Goddess". As I remember the chapter covers quite a lot of the folklore of the Djinn and also equates them to shadow people. It also looks at working with them from the perspective of Arabic magic. I'll try to post some notes from the Djinn chapter when I get some free time.

Unconditional Love

14:42 / 24.07.06

The Sacred Music of Fez

Zizi was throwing a house-purification ceremony, in order to propitiate his family’s resident djinns. Muslims, he explained, believe that when the world was new and God made mankind from clay, he made another race like us in all things, but fashioned from fire.

The djinns, said Zizi, are invisible to the naked eye. They appear in the Koran and are respected all over the Islamic world, but it is in Morocco that djinns have received their most elaborate theological elaboration, partly through the transference of ideas from African spirit religions to the South. In Fes it is believed that the djinns are sensitive to colour, and that each colour has a different patron djinn: Hammu, for example, is a powerful male Arab djinn who loves red and who relished the sight of blood, while Aisha and Malika are female Berber djinni who both delight in the colour yellow, and wine, tobacco, orange blossom and the sensual pleasures.

Bottom of the page last 8 or 9 sections.

Unconditional Love

14:51 / 24.07.06

Views of mental illness in Morocco: Western medicine meets the traditional symbolic

To a foreigner, the dissonance between these frameworks is striking. My visit to Morocco coincided with Pfizer's introduction of Viagra in that country. I was invited to attend the drug's unveiling at a major hotel in downtown Casablanca. It was an impressive affair with expert talks on erectile dysfunction and a lavish buffet. As I left the festivities that night, wondering when Viagra would arrive in Canada, I was struck by the strangeness of my situation. Behind me, at the hotel, physicians discussed the "magic pill," answered cell phones and sampled smoked salmon and white wine. Ahead lay the moonlit walk to my residence: the thrum of voices joined in night prayer, the lit mosques and the anticipation of enjoying, before bed, a written account of Bouya Omar.7 Perhaps it was the age-old romance of Westerners with the "Orient" at work, but to me the city reverberated with an echo of Berber Islam. It will be interesting to see where the interplay between secular and sacred frameworks will lead the Moroccan people. The medical profession knows its own tenets, but from what point on the spectrum will patients draw the symbols they use to define mental illness? Time will certainly tell.

The article draws some intresting parallels between mental difference and cultural folk practice with regards to the djinn.

15:17 / 24.07.06

Arrgh! Please use bold or italics if you're going to quote big chunks. Thanks.

16:57 / 24.07.06

I've been doing a small amount of research on the Zar an Arabic women's dance. The Zar is related to women being possesed by Djinn or other very similar spirits. It is still active in Egypt and Sudan and supposedly in other areas as well. The possesion in question appears to be considered more symbiotic and the dance is not an exorcism rather it is diagnostic often described as trance dancing.

Being possesed the women may engage in behavior not normally permited such as drinking alcohol, smoking, or swearing. Some people believe it is a cathartic release for the rigid roles of women in their native cultures, however most of the women (and some male muscians) believe the spirits are activily prompting the dancers.

I'm hoping to find a Zar group though most of the ones I've found so far view the tradition as trancing as a standalone rather than as working with the Djinn or other Zar spirits.

18:11 / 24.07.06

Others told me that the ability to control djinn gave some men in particular a kind of rebel social status

I remember hearing something from a guy I used to know. who mentioned that to say someone controls or walks along djinn is akin to say someone was a "witch" (as fundamentalist christian thinkf of the term, of course) or a "satanist". It was afar removed story (I heard from a guy who heard from a cousin who used to hear from his realigiously "zealot" grandpa), but I though it was an interesting fact.

And the family in question was originally from Morocco.

There's no personal account involving djinn in here though, are there?

00:01 / 25.07.06

Sorry if this was already said upthread, but djinns are only necessarily evil, as I recall, in the Turkish tradition; and the various "parallel people" theories, fascinating and colorful, would I suppose be somewhat more appropriate for those Djinn who reside outside of Turkey. In other parts of the middle east, I gather, Djinn may be said to have some kind of parallel morality, as faeries seem to. (And in the Arabian Nights, almost all beings, even the Ifrit, praise the name of Allah and recite the Koran, no? I remember Iblis being a character whose realm is accessible through a commode, and I don't think he praised Allah, but I could be wrong.)

ceilingsarecool

01:18 / 25.07.06

From Dead Megatron's Legacy There's no personal account involving djinn in here though, are there?

The only direct/personal account I heard was from a close friend who told me matter-of-factly that there was a djinn in his grandmother's basement chanting the Q'ran. Having never been to visit him family's home in Pakistan, I can only take his word for it.