BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Pretty Complicated Machines In Ancient Rome

 
 
Lionheart
05:28 / 29.09.01
To all you hydrophobics, this one includes water....

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2-2001333960,00.html

quote:TWO machines that Romans used to lift water on an industrial scale have been unearthed by archaeologists working in the City of London.
The 3ft-high water wheels, the first of their kind to be discovered in Britain, were found in two deep wells near the site of a Roman bathhouse and an amphitheatre.

They would have been turned by a man walking on a 10ft-high treadmill and, on an average day, would have raised an estimated 60,000 gallons of water — enough to fill nearly 2,500 modern bathtubs.

The discovery is the best physical example of machinery recorded in contemporary written accounts. The wooden elements, a series of buckets attached to iron links in a chain-like mechanism that could still be used today, are the only known surviving examples in the Roman world.
 
 
Lazlo Woodbine [some call me Laz]
10:04 / 30.09.01
They also invented the screw.
 
 
Lazlo Woodbine [some call me Laz]
12:53 / 01.10.01
It was invented as an efficcient way of extracting the juice from grapes for wine.
Before the screw the grapes were either trod or squashed by a lever with heavy boulders at one end and a plate at t'other, niether method, however, created large ammounts of juice.
So instead of treading the grapes, they'd all be thrown in a pot with a lid and a hole at its base, the screw would be placed on the lid, within its own frame, and slowly tightened, creating the maximum pressure to be exerted on the grapes as possible, and a large amount of juice to flow from the hole to be collected in buckets.
If not for the Romans love of wine, plus their ingenuity, many things we rely on would be much more difficult to put and hold together.

z
z
z
z
 
 
Wombat
13:08 / 01.10.01
Wasn`t the screw a much earlier invention?
Used in babylonion irrigation systems?
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
13:23 / 01.10.01
From here. quote:Archimedes' Screw, Egypt, 250 BCE

by Elaine Totman, AC, and Liz Tuohy-Sheen, '97
object on temporary loan

 

Named for its inventor, the Greek mathematician Archimedes (237-212 BCE), the Archimedes screw is a device for raising water. Essentially, it is a large screw, open at both ends and encased lengthwise in a watertight covering. When one end of the screw is placed in water and the screw is elevated at an angle and then turned, water trapped in the air pockets between the threads rises from the open lower end, up the length of the screw, and is released through the open upper end. Used over 2000 years ago by the Egyptians for irrigation, the Archimedes screw is still in use today, ranging in size from a quarter of an inch to twelve feet in diameter.
 
 
deletia
13:47 / 01.10.01
Hmmm. Except that there is no evidence whatsoever that Archimedes invented the Archimedean screw. And he was Sicilian, IIRC. And probably lived to be something more than 25.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
13:59 / 01.10.01
Apart from these? quoteiodorus Siculus (c. first century BC), Bibliotheke, i.34.2

... men easily irrigate the whole of it [an island in the delta of the Nile] by means of a certain instrument conceived by Archimedes of Syracuse, and which gets its name because it has the form of a spiral or screw.
(Translation by Ivor Thomas in Greek Mathematical Works, Loeb Classical Library, Harvard University Press, Cambridge, 1941.)
Which could be wrong. But maybe not. As for the nationality and the age, you're probably right; going by this timeline, look like the previous page's keeper had mistaken a 3 for an 8.

More on Archimedes here.
 
 
deletia
14:09 / 01.10.01
WTUR, Rothkoid, you don't want to start accepting the anecdotal reports of later historians, esp. Dio. Sic, who was throwing together many different historical accounts to create a compendium history of the world, with a level of critical historical interpretation which is fiercely debated but ceratinly at times goes awry, or Athenaeus, whose deipnosophistae (the Philosophers at Dinner) is in itself a series of fragmentary anecdotes, in this case probably from similar nationalistic historians of Sicily (Timaeus and the other one whose name I can never remember), and not intended as a work of historical rigour. Otherwise we'll have to start accepting the whole Roman-soldier-bag-of-tools-thinks-its-gold-kills-Archimedes story as well, which has always smelled of hake to me. Unattributed invention tended to get attributed to Archimedes, like the various works and hymns attributed at various times to Homer.

However, we can probably be reasonably sure Dio. Sic. was right about his nationality - Syracuse was one of the larger cities in Sicily. Archimedes was (allegedly) killed when it was sacked by the Romans, although that sounds like a metaphor to me - qv Virgil, Aeneid 6 on the different destinies of Greece and Rome.

Of course, I'm not a historian, but I imagine the Egyptians probably invented it and the Greeks (or, if you'd prefer, Siceliots) nabbed the credit. That usually happens.

[ 01-10-2001: Message edited by: The Haus of Correction ]
 
 
grant
18:28 / 01.10.01
If it was called "Archimedes' Screw" at the time (plus or minus 100 years), wouldn't it stand to reason that the actual screw is older - that Archimedes (or whoever) simply came up with a new application for it?
 
 
deletia
19:49 / 01.10.01
Well, that's the other thing. The archimedean screw is a very specific application of screw technology, for bringing water uphill. No reason why the screw couldn't exist before that. Could even be Roman, theoretically, although, since their wine bottles were sealed with wax, the waiter's friend was not extant until noticeably later....

[ 01-10-2001: Message edited by: The Haus of Correction ]
 
 
Lazlo Woodbine [some call me Laz]
20:03 / 01.10.01
Sorry i meant the nut and bolt.
Works in the same way you see.
Tightly fiting threaded nut and oppositely theaded bolt held in a single possision, to lower the nut not tighten the bolt.
Wooden it was.
 
  
Add Your Reply