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Vegetarianism for Meat Lovers

  
 
ibis the being
21:16 / 04.07.06
My signficant other shocked me last week by announcing, pretty much out of nowhere, that he wants to go veggie. Not even for health reasons (though that will be a welcome bonus for both of us), but because he was suddenly struck with compassion for the cute furry animals he's been eating. Coming from someone for whom barbequed pork ribs were pretty much the zenith of cuisine, this was more than a little surprising, but I'm totally game.

As the sole chef in the relationship, I'm trying to think of meat-like dishes for our new veggie lifestyle. So far, my breaded fried garlic tofu, soy burgers, and meatless brats have been met with accolades - so I don't think he's going to be real hard to please. I just want some basics... stuff that's as hearty as our carnivorous diet once was, but without the dead animal.

Also, I'm interested to know how much soy and other protein sources I should be substituting for us to be healthy. We were eating meat as a good portion of dinner 6-7 times a week - typically 2 chicken, 1-2 poultry sausage, and 1 beef. I've gone veggie before, when I was single, with poor results... I ended up borderline anemic despite eating tofu every day, so I need some help on the purely nutritional tip. Thanks!
 
 
nighthawk
21:44 / 04.07.06
Well I don't have any recipes off the top of my head, but I can offer some advice from my own experience.

First make sure you know what nutrients you need from your food, and where you're going to get it in your vegetarian diet! I can't stress that enough, so many people try to go veggie by just cutting meat out of their normal meals, which means they end up eating crap, bland, unhealthy food. For example, tofu doesn;t have any iron in it, which is probably why you became anaemic last time you gave up meat. Eat stuff like spinach or dried apricots if you want iron, or just take supplements.

Also I'm not a big fan of meat substitutes - admittedly I was never that keen on meat anyway, but most carnivores I know say that they're a pale imitation of the real thing. If you have the time, try cooking straight up vegetarian food, rather than just altering meals you already know. To get protein, for example, you'll need to mix up lots of beans and pulses. A lot of vegetarians I know just don't know how to cook these, so whenever they try they end up with stereotypically hippyish lentil based gunk, and it really is disgusting. Indian food is probably your best bet. Dahls taste really good and are easy to make. If you have a good indian shop nearby, there are loads of different types of lentil you can use, each with a diverse range of recipes. Actually having said all that, if you're just going straight vegetarian and still eating dairy products, you should easily get enough protein in your diet anyway.

Also experiment with lots of different vegetables too. Aubergines, pepper, courgettes, mushrooms, squash. They're all much more diverse than people realise, and really easy to cook.


Of course that's all based on my own experience. As I said, as far as I recall I never really liked meat (I stopped eating it when I was about 6), so I don't really like meat substitutes. Pretty useless given the thread title really. But that's advice I'd give to anyone who was planning on becoming vegetarian...
 
 
stabbystabby
22:25 / 04.07.06
i'd suggest giving up all meat-like dishes first, then trying out the vegetarian meat substitute things later. once you've gone without for a while, the taste difference between the real meat and the substitute won't be as noticeable.

there are some pretty good substitutes out there though - you'll just have to try them and see what you like. I could never handle tempeh, tasted awful.
 
 
ibis the being
22:53 / 04.07.06
Well, so far he's liking the meat substitutes we've tried - brat, veggie burger, and fake meatballs tonight. To me this seemed the better option than introducing a host of new veggies that may be too crunchy-greeny to start... I was thinking of going in the reverse of what you've suggested, starting with the fake meats and working toward a wider range of veggies & legumes.

The Indian food idea is good, I already bought some jasmine rice and saag curry sauce (like I said, starting easy with the prepared stuff - there's a learning curve for both of us here). We both like Indian dishes a lot though I've never cooked any myself. I guess I'll start learning.

Good to know about tofu lacking iron, I will watch for that. Spinach is a staple of our diet but I can definitely up the dosage. And we should start taking our vitamins again, which are gathering dust on the shelf now.

I just really want him to love everything and stick with it - we can only do this together I'm sure, and it will be good for us. Our normal eating habits were not awful but definitely meat-heavy. I was taken aback by the negative reactions we've gotten from friends. You'd think we'd quit drinking by the way some people carried on, trying to talk us out of it.
 
 
stabbystabby
23:46 / 04.07.06
well, i'm a recovered vegan, and all i can say is - do your research, eat well, iron is a concern but can be fixed, b12 damage is much worse and can be permanent. really watch your b12. and don't stress if it doesn't take, it's not for everyone.
 
 
stabbystabby
23:56 / 04.07.06
the vegetarianism, i mean. vegetarianism doesn't always take.
 
 
stabbystabby
00:35 / 05.07.06
also, vegetarian sushi is yum. rice, nori, carrot, avocado, sesame seeds, cucumber, cream cheese, fish eggs, eggs, sprouts, etc.

All you need is a sushi roller, like this, some sushi rice (it's sticky, ordinary long-grain rice won't work), wasabi (powder or paste, whichever you prefer), good nori (old nori will flake and break, and some is designed as a noodle topping, make sure you get the sushi stuff), soy sauce, and anything you feel like using as a topping/filler.

Go nuts!
 
 
Ticker
02:46 / 05.07.06
You're in the Boston area?
Get thine ass to Grasshopper for some inspired vegan meals. Really fantastic, except the mock seafood which was a bit too weird for my taste.

More on protein here.

I really strongly recommend keeping a food journal as you transition. Sometimes food allergies appear because new veg folk rely too heavily on any one item and don't notice it. Write down what you eat and how it makes you feel. Things to watch out for are lot's of bloating, sugar cravings, overly tired, skin break outs (which can happen from detoxing as well).

I've seen a lot of research indicating that adult humans of normal activity level do not require as much protein as all the hype would have you believe. I've heard 50 grams is a reasonable daily amount. Tree nuts and seeds are valuable protein source especially when germinated.
Are you going vegan (no animal products at all) or allowing dairy? If you are consuming eggs or milk products you should be getting enough protein. If you are going vegan (which is a lifestyle not just a diet) there are a ton of recipe sites online as well as great books.

While I encourage and support people who wish to live a non animal food based lifestyle it is a lot of work and sometimes other health concerns can become an issue. I have a soy intolerance and other health issues that gradually forced me to choose an ethical animal based diet instead of vegetarian or vegan (of which I have done successfully before).

Please keep in mind various cultures have thrived on dairy and veg/fruit diets with no meat and some modern vegans are extremely healthy with absolutely no animal products. In my experience the individual's body will dictate what should be consummed for health.

A note about detoxing...
Whenever we dramatically change our diets our bodies will adjust. The process is different for everyone but cold/flu like symptoms are common as well as headaches. If you have been eating meat from animals treated with antibiotics or processed with sugar you may also notice added symptoms.


While I was vegan I missed hearty food more than meat texture. I created a few easy soups/chowdah's. Also I agree Indian food is very simple to make and is supa tasty veg friendly fare.

----------
Spicy lentil stew

5 small tomatoes
3 cups mixed lentils (red/green/french)
1 bunch cilantro
2 cups baby spinach
2 cups chopped sun dried tomatoes
1 tbls cumin
1 tbls chiplotle
1/2 tbls salt (the sundried are pretty salty)
fresh ground black pepper to taste.

Rinse lentils chuck in a pot with twice as much water. Put on high. Steal two cups of water from the pot (or figure out in advance) put in blender with slices of tomatoe. Blend. Pour off half into pot. Add cilantro to the blender. Blend. Put in spinach. Blend. Dump into pot. When it begins to boil reduce to simmer. Add salt/spices/pepper and sundried tomatoes. Simmer for at least an hour. Best if let stand after over night for spices.

Kicks major lentil ass!
-----------
XK's Vegan All-Orange Veggie Chowder

Two cans organic pumpkin puree
2 sweet potatoes peeled and cubed
1 bag small pre peeled carrots
2 cups wild rice
1/2 onion chopped fine
1 tbls maple syrup
4 tbls curry powder
1/2 tsp chili powder
2 cups water
salt and pepper to taste

in large pot sautee onion in olive oil and uncooked wild rice. Add
water when onion becomes transclucent. Bring to a boil than reduce to
a simmer. Add pumpkin puree, sweet potatoes, carrots, maple syrup, and
spices. Simmer for an hour.
 
 
Jackie Susann
02:53 / 05.07.06
I worked out a pretty good vegie spag bog the other week. Basically just chop some garlic and chilli, fry that up, add a tin of chopped tomatoes, simmer down, then keep adding little dashes of vegie beef stock and letting it reduce until you've added about a cup all up. Separately, grate some tempeh and fry it til it's crispy, then add that to the tomatoes. Yum!
 
 
stabbystabby
02:55 / 05.07.06
here's some vegan friendly info about b12 - here
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
04:30 / 05.07.06
I'm blithely copying and pasting from my post over in the Gastronomicon thread. Because I'm one lazy bastard.

Baked Portobello Mushrooms with Garlic, Dried Chili, Butter and Thyme

This recipe is the closest thing I've had to a steak since I turned vegetarian. Juicy, meaty and dee-licious!

Serves 4

4 big portobellos
1 handful fresh thyme
1/2 a dried red chili (adjust to your spicy food desire)
2 cloves garlic
juice of 1 lemon
3 tbsp extra-virgin olive oil (roughly, YMMV)
1 big pat of butter
salt and pepper

Mix the thyme, chili, half a clove of garlic, lemon juice and olive oil in a food processor, or use a mortar and pestle if you don't have one. It should have a saucy consistency. Rub this mixture all over the mushrooms. Then stick them in a roasting pan, bottoms up. It's best if they're packed together tightly. Now, slice the rest of the garlic into little sticks. Make incisions randomly in the undersides of the mushrooms and slide these garlic sticks in. Season with salt and pepper and bake at 425 for 20-25 minutes, until they're soft and juicy. Enjoy!

Tofu: My technique is to freeze it. It changes the texture completely (seems "meatier," actually), and, after squeezing out all the water, it will suck up any marinade like a sponge and be mucho flavorful.

As for balancing nutrients, I found myself getting sick all the fucking time because I couldn't be bothered to actually chart out my diet. I actually ended up adding tuna to my diet to get more meaty nutrients, and I haven't been ill since. I realize that I'm not a vegetarian anymore, but I am healthy again, and now I can eat the best food of all time, spicy crunchy tuna roll from Moshi Moshi in Northampton!
 
 
Jester
10:39 / 05.07.06
I recommend the old Cranks recipe book for very hearty veggie food. Just try everything, it's almost all really good. There are some decent recipes for meat substitute-based dishes as well as more traditional veggie fare, which could be good for your particular situation... But if you want to branch out from that, anything with mushrooms in it has a certain meatyness to that. Although that could be just my tastebuds playing tricks after 6 years of vegetarianism...
 
 
Quantum
11:17 / 05.07.06
I'm a lifelong veggie, I'd second most of what has been said- don't replace the meat, eat different things. There's a bazillion vegetarian recipe books (I like Rose Elliot) and a few minutes web-fu will throw up loads of tasty things you'll enjoy cooking.
When the cravings for meat kick in eat a toasted Halloumi sandwich. If you don't already know, halloumi is a firm salty cheese that doesn't melt when you fry or toast it, so it's basically vegetarian bacon and OH MY GOODNESS IT'S DELICIOUS.
There's a lot of fake meat products available (quorn spare ribs etc.) so you could simply replace meat with fake meat but it's just not as nice.
Dietary wise, rice and peas both contain incomplete proteins which is why they're great together, nuts and seeds have protein as do dairy products, TVP and dried soy and stuff are great for different textures of protein (stews vs stir fry), ten minutes of reading up on dietary requirements will sort you out. For example, B12 is found in abundance in alfalfa beansprouts, miso soup, soy sauce, marmite, breakfast cereal... iron is available in tomatoes and black strap molasses as well green leafy veg and beans and pulses... try finding out about macrobiotics and checking pro-veg websites.
Then watch The Meatrix and remember to get free range eggs and organic milk etc. so you don't go to hell.

One last thing, if you or partner lapse and just have to scoff a beefburger, don't use that as an excuse to stop being vegetarian completely just let it go. Less meat is better.
 
 
Ticker
11:42 / 05.07.06
Some veg folk get the Devil poo if they fall off the wagon and have meat. The threat of which helps shore up flagging willpower!
 
 
stabbystabby
11:55 / 05.07.06
yeah, haloumi is awesome. salty cheesy goodness. i found TVP made me sick (and a lot of the stuff we used to get here had GE ingredients) but it's probably better now.

not to harp on about the b12 issue, but some people have trouble absorbing it from vegetable sources. if you have a sympathetic doctor, seriously think about getting yearly blood tests for iron/b12 etc. I have a vegan friend currently very ill because of this and my girlfriend's mum went blind and deaf due to b12 deficiency (caused by poor nutrition, not veganism, but still). ok, that's enough about vitamins!

other vege joys: pickled garlic. seriously, this stuff rocks. good cheeses, olives, all the little tapas things.

There's also a book called Fit For Life, which has some pretty dubious nutritional advice, but the Fit for Life cookbook (a separate book - you find them in every second hand bookstore here in Oz) has some awesome recipes - nut spreads, meat alternatives, everything.

if you like Thai, there's some Thai vegetarian recipes here.
 
 
Bear
12:09 / 05.07.06
This thread makes me feel like a lazy vegetarian - I hardly ever cook and rely too much on the fake meats/ready meals available - but this is all going to change soon (moving to the land of meat) and I've ordered a couple of vegan cook books to practice with...

More thumbs up for the haloumi - can't be beaten!

Also having something healthy to snack on at home and at work would be handy (bags of nuts would be good) as there might be sugar/chocolate cravings.

I'm a bit worried about my B12 at the moment and have ordered some Veg 1 supplements from the vegan society website linked above.

Keep us up to date on the progress...
 
 
Char Aina
12:10 / 05.07.06
dude, marmite for b12.
 
 
stabbystabby
12:19 / 05.07.06
marmite does have b12, but it's simply a supplement added during the production, not a natural part of the product. Might as well get the supplements, really....
 
 
Tabitha Tickletooth
12:30 / 05.07.06
Also on the haloumi front - makes an ace vege bbq option. This may not be an issue for you, but I find that having a quick vege meal to chuck on the barbie is essential. Tofu skewers and the like can be very good but usually require marinating or at least quite a bit or preparation. Haloumi you can just bbq in little steak-ettes or:
chop into chunks
toss with some halved cherry tomatoes in a mix of olive oil, garlic and fresh basil
leave sit for half an hour (if you've got it)
thread onto skewers
bbq.
 
 
Char Aina
12:41 / 05.07.06
well, i suppose...
only marmite's awesome, hey.
everyone should eat more marmite.
 
 
ibis the being
13:24 / 05.07.06
What a happy coincidence, I just picked up some alfalfa sprouts for the first time ever out of a weird craving for them. Thanks for all this great advice, I knew I could count on you all for help with this.

We're not going vegan and if anything I'm bumping up our egg consumption slightly (they're so easy and cheap). In fact we decided not to make a super drastic change right away, so... seafood is still going to be a very occasional menu item (sushi and steamed mussels are 2 favorites for eating out). Also, based on my experience being on a limited diet before (while veggie I also experienced a temporary wheat allergy - I know, I'm an idiot), I decided that if we're in a rare situation - say, a barbeque - where we're guests at a dinner and the only offering is meat-based, we can cheat but stay on the wagon.

Anyway, yeah we do have to go to Grasshopper, I've heard plenty of good things about it. It's ironic that we're going veggie in our last year here in veg-friendly Boston, just before moving to the land of beef (Nebraska). It will be more difficult there, but by then we'll have a little more practice under our belts (and hopefully a little less belly under said belts).
 
 
Proinsias
13:47 / 05.07.06
Regarding the B12 issue, why not just stop washing your hands after visiting the bathroom and take up nail biting.

From vegsoc.org

Human faeces can contain significant B12. A study has shown that a group of Iranian vegans obtained adequate B12 from unwashed vegetables which had been fertilised with human manure. Faecal contamination of vegetables and other plant foods can make a significant contribution to dietary needs, particularly in areas where hygiene standards may be low. This may be responsible for the lack of aneamia due to B12 deficiency in vegan communities in developing countries

Or perhaps replacing the toilet with a compost bin?
 
 
foolish fat finger
22:15 / 05.07.06
jester's right, the cranks book is a superb fount of veggie recipes...

I woke up this morning thinking about this thread, with a head full of veggie propaganda... and I thought I was over my born-again veggie phase...!

but to summarise briefly, I don't subscribe to the opinion that omnivores have the healthiest diet, and as soon as you leave out certain food groups, you are 'lacking'. I personally see meat, for humans, as highly toxic, as it festers in our long digestive tract. carnivores have a very short digestive tract, to expell meat before it can start to decompose...

I also don't buy the 'lack of B12/ protein' myths, but I do eat vecon/marmite, just cos I like it...

ok, I am off the soapbox. pasta is nice and easy, with a bit of broccoli, mushroom and pesto. very nice. also, as an occasional raw-fooder, I still try and get a fair measure of raw fruits and vege into my diet. well, most of the time...

'fit for life' (M and H Diamond) is a great book for aspiring veggies, and also has recipes in the back...
 
 
stabbystabby
22:35 / 05.07.06
just be wary of the food combining advice and the "only fruit till midday" advice. plays havoc with your blood sugar. (as i found out) and like i said, b12 deficiency is dangerous - if you don't believe it, you're welcome to come see my gf's mum.

Most vegans show adequate B12 levels to make clinical deficiency unlikely but nonetheless show restricted activity of B12 related enzymes, leading to elevated homocysteine levels. Strong evidence has been gathered over the past decade that even slightly elevated homocysteine levels increase risk of heart disease and stroke and pregnancy complications. Homocysteine levels are also affected by other nutrients, most notably folate. General recommendations for increased intakes of folate are aimed at reducing levels of homocysteine and avoiding these risks. Vegan intakes of folate are generally good, particularly if plenty of green vegetables are eaten. However, repeated observations of elevated homocysteine in vegans, and to a lesser extent in other vegetarians, show conclusively that B12 intake needs to be adequate as well to avoid unnecessary risk. from Vegan society

not washing your food is a very bad idea. incidentally, the long intestine argument is a bit problematic - it's necessary to expel meat quickly to avoid spoilage if you are eating raw meat. Cooked meats take a lot longer to spoil, particularly lighter meats like fish and chicken.

the healthiest populations tend to be omnivores who eat small amounts of meat - particularly Okinawans

apologies for threadrot - i know this was a recipes thread! sorry.
 
  
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