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'Culture' relative to time

 
 
nickp
21:07 / 28.06.06
I came across this quote in an art broadsheet, from the Australian artist Bill Henson. Now, before you disregard this as just a discussion on a distant continent, think about replacing the word 'Australian' with 'American':

"'Australian' culture is so thin - rather like the continent’s top soil - lacking the depth and sophistication that can only accumulate over time, it is extremely prone to distortions and perversions of fashion and expediency."

What do you think? Is this merely some kind of 'high art' snobbery, or is there something to it? I know you're probably all 'reaching for your guns' at this mention of the word 'culture', I apologise!
 
 
All Acting Regiment
15:56 / 29.06.06
Well, this is white culture isn't it?

At least I hope that's what he's talking about. I mean, both America and Australia have a massive and awe-inspiring pre-colonial cultural history, to rival (even though rival isn't really the right concept) that of the Asians and Europeans. Most of this has been eradicated and only survives in fragments.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
15:59 / 29.06.06
Which is to say that largely, the pre-col culture is gone, and only the post-colonial culture is left, and that is still more rather than less like the parent culture of those colonists. So yeah, if he's saying that he could be talking sense.

Except...I'm sure we'd all agree that the loss of the pre-colonial culture is a fucking atrocity, but I'm not sure how fair it is to generalise about an entire continent now and say that it's "culturally thin"...
 
 
nickp
17:54 / 29.06.06
I was a little unclear on the context of this particular quote, my sincere apologies. However yes, it is in relation to white culture as opposed to indigenous cultures, in particular European culture.

If that comment were in relation to indigenous culture, he would deserve a swift smack across the head & no discussion...
 
 
All Acting Regiment
18:22 / 29.06.06
Hmm. Moving into the discussion, I'd say that post-colonial America at least (I'm afriad I know next to nothing about Australia) seems to have developed a culture (good or bad) that is separate and different from Europe's- I mean, rock 'n' roll and all that, noir movies, etc...I'm not sure how you could deny that it has it's own culture unless you were going to ignore or devalue a lot of this stuff.

Can the same be said for Australia, Oz lithers (or anyone who knows more than me)?
 
 
babazuf
22:30 / 29.06.06
Australian culture is something of a goulash; the apathy and conservatism of the vested majority, with dashes of Mediterranean and Oriental cultures due to the large number of immigrants from those regions.

I don't believe it's so much that we don't have a culture; it would be more correct to say that "Australian culture" has not been around long enough to have been "validated" by extended periods of time time, and what common cultural heritage we do share has been largely appropriated from our colonial ancestry.
 
 
*
22:42 / 29.06.06
Which is to say that largely, the pre-col culture is gone, and only the post-colonial culture is left
Only if you make it about pre- and post-. The indigenous cultureS are not gone, they are ignored and marginalized, and the colonialist culture pretends it has eradicated them and alternately congratulates itself (while appropriating bits for its own purposes) and laments that it did such a horrible thing (while appropriating bits for its own purposes).

There were too many people in a small room for my cultural anthropology class. Many students on the first day found themselves sitting on the floor, even out into the hallway. My professor discussed some of the complexities of the definitions of culture, then gestured to the floor-sitters. "These are the Sitting-on-Floor-People," he said gravely. "The Sitting-on-Floor-People have a long and noble history of sitting on floors, which is a mark of honor among them. Their finest floor-sitters can sit on a concrete floor for days, but even their children are taught from a very young age to sit on a thinly-carpeted floor for whole minutes at a time." Then he waved his arms at them. "Sitting-on-Floor-People! Stand up!" A few students moved, others looked around reluctantly. "If you don't stand up I'll fail you for the semester." Everyone stood up.
"Oh no!" my professor cried woefully. "The Sitting-on-Floor-People have been wiped out! Their entire culture has been destroyed! The colonialists robbed them of their culture by threats of destruction, and now the Sitting-on-Floor-People are no more." Meanwhile the Sitting-on-Floor-People stood around confusedly. Then some sat back down, thinking the lesson was over. "Oh no," my professor said sadly. "That's not the way your ancestors used to do it. You're not REAL Sitting-on-Floor-People anymore. It's too bad your culture is gone."
 
 
All Acting Regiment
23:12 / 29.06.06
Yes, good points. Post-col grads always skewer me. I'm glad I'm starting a course on it in a few weeks.
 
 
Ticker
19:56 / 13.07.06
id, that's brilliant. May I steal it?
 
 
TeN
00:35 / 17.07.06
of course without context I can't be sure, but as I read it I assumed he was talking about pop culture... nothing related to pre- or post-colonialism

as in, pop culture is shallow, but as time passes, certain aspects become embellished and incorporated into a society's 'cultural canon' so to speak, while the rest erode away and come to be regarded mostly as camp or are forgotten completely

again though, taken completely out of context, I can't be sure at all if that's a valid interpretation
 
 
*
05:34 / 17.07.06
It's easy to assume that people mean the same things we mean by "culture" when they use the word. Anthropology of the past 60 years is at fault, in my opinion, for making people believe that "culture" has some kind of static meaning which falls neatly in the realm of common sense and always looks like what we expect to see.

New Zealand "culture" is also "new" in the sense that white people have not been there very long. But an exploration of Te Papa Tongarewa, the national museum of New Zealand, exposes a great deal of depth to New Zealand "culture" which, in my opinion, derives its strength from the friction where different sets of traditions, beliefs, and practices rub against one another. One manifestation of this is the way in which the Museum respects a particular interpretation of tino rangatiritanga which has required it to have two Directors, one a tangata tiriti (person of the treaty) and one a Maori. The Museum's response to the complexities of culture has been to attempt to illuminate the contradictions, rather than simplify them. That, I think, reveals the depth and sophistication of New Zealand culture better than could a Museum of a more traditional variety, although they still have more work to do.

I think all "cultures" have had the same amount of time. We're all living in the same present day. Humanity has had the same amount of history, which it has taken with it everywhere it has gone in the world. When people settled New Zealand between 1000 and 1300 CE, they didn't erase the culture they brought with them from the rest of the Pacific Islands and start over, and when white people began to land there starting in 1642, they didn't leave behind their European-informed cultures and start all over either. Neither did that happen in Australia, where people have been living for about 45,000 years or more.

For me, the depth and sophistication of a "culture" is based on the value placed on it by its members, how they keep, nurture, and grow their traditions, how they adapt to changes or resist them, and how they respect and include the voices of their own people in all their richness and diversity. This holds for a people's visual art, performance, storytelling, religion, philosophy, governance, and science. Over time this "culture" will change in many ways, but I have seen no measure of "depth" or "sophistication" that is satisfactory to me other than the one I've just proposed, which happens not to be dependent on time.

To assume that the word "culture" means "pop culture," or perhaps "gallery art culture," or some other set of what people who look at the world like I do recognize as "culture," is to give to a colonial value system too much power. We could say that "pop culture" is dependent on time, yes, but to say that is almost a tautology; "pop culture" is the culture which is currently popular, or (as in "pop culture of the 1950's") the culture which was popular at some given point in the past. So I can't believe that that's what Henson meant, or if so I think he needs to say a little more to be worth my attention.
 
  
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