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Conceptions of god

 
 
Unconditional Love
21:24 / 19.06.06
Lately i have been exploring the idea of and my relationship to god. Its been both troubling and doubtful and joyful and affirming. Like many people i have grown up with two very divergent philosophical view points, one which denies god outright and one which concieves of god in a judeo christian fashion.

As i got older i began to question both of these view points and learn about other ideas and conceptions around god and other forms of philosophy aside from athiest materialism, by this i mean for example buddhism, hinduism sufism, etc. I have noticed while investigating these other cultures and philosophies that they have a very different conception of god to the judaeo chrisitian view point.

I recently encoutered a very good article online that explained the yoruban conception of olodumare (god) and thought it may be a good point to start discussing with others the different cultural conceptions of god and how different people have come to form different relationships with god and how practices that dont recognise spirit of any kind operate and the difference of opinion that arises between those practitioners that accept god and those that dont.

OLODUMARE: GOD IN YORUBA BELIEF AND THE THEISTIC PROBLEM OF EVIL
 
 
Tezkah
20:18 / 27.06.06
I've been reading some articles that attempt to explain the teaching of the Buddha to people who aren't familiar with it and the way that he taught about the idea of Gods and Goddesses was very interesting.

Here is an excerpt from a work called "Basic Buddhism" by Dr Victor A. Gunasekara:


In the Buddhist texts Mahâ Brahmâ is the equivalent of God and is represented as claiming the following attributes for himself: "I am Brahmâ, the Great Brahmâ, the Supreme One, the Mighty, the All-seeing, the Ruler, the Lord of all, the Maker, the Creator, the Chief of all appointing to each his place, the Ancient of days, the Father of all that is and will be." (Dgha Nikya, II, 263).

The Buddha dismisses all these claims of Mahâ Brahmâ as being due to his own delusions brought about by ignorance. Mahâ-Brahmâ is seen simply a deva unenlightened and subject to the samsric process as determined by his kamma (cf the Brahmajla and the Aggañña Suttas). In the Khevadda Sutta he is forced to admit to an inquiring monk that he is unable to answer a question that is posed to him, and advises the monk to consult the Buddha. This clearly shows the Brahm acknowledges the superiority of the Buddha.




This could also be applied to the capital-G god described by Christianity and Islam, two religions founded long after the Buddha lived, or Judaism, which at the time was secluded to a small ethnic group. Basically stated: if God exists, he's as deluded about the nature of reality as the rest of us.


Another thing I have been contemplating about the nature of reality is the concept of "I" vs "Other". At some point something became different than the rest of existance, was that first thing concious of itself being different from the "other"? I'm not sure, but it would obviously be "created" by the "other". Are the conciousnesses that reside in our brains sort of like self contained derivatives of this "I"? It's a neat thing to contemplate.
 
 
Unconditional Love
10:44 / 29.06.06
Very much reminds me of the comparison between the demi urge in gnosticism and the transcendent father, sometimes compared as two different gods, old testament god (demiurge) , jesus living god of love - new testament, jesus was also integrated with horus in some gnostic traditions.

I think people have drawn comparisons between gnosticism and buddhism before also, they share certain points of reference, especially for example some of the passages in the gospel of thomas.

Thou regarding the last sentence of the passage, i am not sure a buddhist would regard themselves or there doctrine superior to anything, seems a bit out of character to me, thou i could be wrong.
 
 
Dragon
02:15 / 04.07.06
A common belief held by theists (I'm not counting some who are more knowledgeable) who believe atheists, by definition, have no moral compass. And, even if we follow the golden rule, we do so when it suits us...discarding it when it does not. Alledgedly, since we follow no Authority, we must be disregarding the Golden Rule when there are hard or distasteful choices to be made. There have even been bible passages to support that position.

I cannot speak for atheists anymore than a theist can speak for all theists. Speaking for myself, I find it mutually beneficial to treat other people as I would like them to treat me. To do otherwise would be detrimental to me as well as to the other guy.
 
 
Unconditional Love
09:34 / 04.07.06
I think that theistic assumption isnt nessecarily true. All it takes is to look at the history of various religions to see that on occasions there moral precepts are not in line with there behaviours.

I think what you are refering too, this idea that atheists somehow dont have morals or ethics, comes from a fear of freedom perhaps on the part of those that view god as a divine authority, or the final say so on the matter. Alot of that conflict arises imo by the need some people feel to put justice and law outside the bounds of human responsibility, i think that can be a very unhealthy approach to law making, and in my opinion gives a religion more power than i would care to see it have.

But there are also many conceptions of god that arent focused as a punisher or all knowing judge, hinduism is a good starting point to consider the many faces of god, as is the cabala.
 
 
Quantum
18:07 / 04.07.06
many conceptions of god that arent focused as a punisher or all knowing judge

Including Christianity.
 
 
Unconditional Love
18:36 / 04.07.06
Agreed quantum, i didnt mean to imply that, thou i have to admit it does come to mind when i think of god and judgement, perhaps because of both negative and positive cultural images and connotations.

I would also think because of pop cultural stereotypes of christians i grew up with in the media, in reality of course they are a far larger variety of people, from gay liberal anarchist christians, to christian aid workers etc etc, there are some unfortunately that tend to typify the stereotypes i grew up with, but not all, and they werent just that syereotype thou they may of contained some of those characteristics there was more to them than that.
 
 
Crestmere
07:46 / 05.07.06
I'm not sure how true this is for other religions but within the various denominations of Christianity that I've seen, they may as well have different Gods.

Both the relationship to God and the actual characteristics of said God are just vastly different, ranging from mystical to capricious to distant.
 
  
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