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Underground > Comic Books >

The Best Of...Peter David

Shiny: Well Over Thirty

00:06 / 18.06.06

Well, I must admit I’m not entirely sure whether many people on Barbelith will agree, but I think Peter David is a damn fine writer. The question is how fine, and what exactly does he do really well. For me PAD has had a huge impact, since I read his Hulk religiously between the ages of 8 and 20. The odd thing is until age sixteen or so I despised his writing, but I’d been a huge Hulk fan as a small child and I was determined to wait out this boring adult writer who was ruining my favourite character. Then one day around issue 400 I realized I wasn’t waiting him out any more, and in fact the opposite had somehow become true, and having overcome adolescent/pre-adolescent obsessive compulsive tendencies the only reason I was still buying the book was because Peter David was actually writing up a storm on the title, and on re-reading the old issues I found he’d been doing so for quite some time. After that I got pulled into his other titles, and I reckon both his old run and his current run on X-Factor are even better than his Hulk run, as was his Captain Marvel run (which was kind of a continuation of the Hulk stuff anyway). Anyway I’m not quite sure if I can define exactly what I loved and continue to love about PAD, but I reckon it has something to do with the fact he writes incredible complex stories for the long term reader, where a seemingly throw-away scene for five years ago might suddenly become hugely important and give the reader a great pay-off. I also feel that his willingness to delve into the psychological depths of those characters he writes for a long time puts him well above most bog standard superhero writers, as is shown especially markedly in the various issues he has written featuring Leonard Sampson’s analyses of his main characters. Another great thing PAD does is the humour – no other writer as far as I’m aware has featured a Pinky and Brain Cameo in a major title and point are definitely gained for that. Also all of this brings me round to versatility – PAD has done well on humour and characterisation stories, but he’s also done brilliantly on the odd horror issues, or on full blown action. In any case I’d be really interested to hear any Lither’s opinions or comments on PAD’s work…….

Jake, Colossus of Clout

01:31 / 18.06.06

Peter David is someone who I never really read, despite his books being on the stands almost constantly throughout my entire life. When I was a kid I wasn't a Hulk fan, when I was a teen/young man in college he wasn't kewl enough, and now that I'm an adult, I have to ask: Why haven't I read the man's work? And I answer: Well, give him a shot!

So! What Peter David stuff is worth reading? I'd like something that's torrentable, so if I hate it I can just delete and forget it and not be out any money, but if I can pick up a run on the cheap, that would be okay, too. I suppose that his Hulk is the definitive run, but that's hundreds of issues, and I'm not ready to make that commitment. Is there a good, shortish (>50 issues) run or miniseries that would give me a good grasp of his voice and ideas?

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but I'll come back if I read a bit of his stuff.

02:19 / 18.06.06

The Madrox mini series and the new X-Factor are both great as far as I'm concerned and worth checking out. I missed his Captain Marvel run (as I had run screaming from comics due to multiple, chromium covers) but recently picked the whole run up fairly cheap on eBay. Great stuff as well.

15:10 / 18.06.06

his entire Hulk run, the "Death of Jean DeWolff" he did waay back when in Spectacular Spider-Man (although I haven't read it since, I wonder if it would hold up to my present non-16 year old self), and Hulk: The End would be my biggest recommendations. Also his Star Trek comics, published by DC, some of which might still be in paperback, were very entertaining.

23:52 / 18.06.06

Peter David?

The guy is really cool. I’ve met him personally last February at San Francisco WonderCon. He is such a nice person… talked with me for a while.

Now talking about his works:

I think his stories on Hulk were the best ever written. He is smart deep, serious sometimes, funny others… It’s really worth reading. The one with the guy dying of AIDS was quite impressive.

His X-Factor (first phase, long time ago) was also very good. Funny and cool. Using only unknown characters.

He gave an interview to Wizard Magazine not so long ago… He talked about his work on Star Trek, about the column on line he keeps for a long time... It’s a good interview.

I’m reading his work on Madrox and it seems to be worth of it. Probably his New X-Factor will follow the same way.

Death of Jean DeWolff was a good story. But undoubtly his masterpiece was the Wedding of Rick Jones. Forget Superman, Spiderman, Conan, Wondergirl, Groo. That was the best wedding story EVER written. Amazing! Hilarious! Evertime a friend of mine is going to marry, I send him a copy of that issue to read. If you haven’t read it, I deeply recommend!

PS: Mr. Aragonés made a joke on his “Sergio Aragonés Destroys DC”. He stares at the scrap notes at the drawing room and sees a paper: “let’s try to buy a surname for Peter David”.

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

04:06 / 19.06.06

PAD is one of those writers who can be both good and horrid, and sometimes in the same story.

He has a great way of putting together long term plotting, is able to use characters in new ways, and can write some really good stories. Right now, I'm liking his "Fallen Angel" and "X-Factor" a lot, and his Spider-Man is above average for a mainline Marvel book, although it's showing a LOT of problems with dragging in 10 year old continuity stuff that I barely remember. I've also like his fantasy novels as nice throw-away reading to keep me amused on a lazy afternoon.

When he's bad, however, he gets overly cute and in-jokey, almost to the point of ruining a story just to toss in a pop-culture reference that points out to the reader that they are reading a story in a goofy comic book. Young Justice was the worst offender in this. He can also get so wrapped up in the complexity of a story that doesn't need it, that you have to wonder if he just doesn't know what he's goign to write next, so he keeps going at the same plot as long as he can. The Captain Marvel series he did showed this tendancy, with the never ending Rick Jones stuff that never seemed to go anywhere, and the two year long plot that Captain Marvel might be crazy, but then again maybe he isn't. The ending of that plot was so bad, I wondered if he even understood the "twist" he was trying to write.

He's one of the few writers from the early 80's who is still writing regularly, and seems to be able to escape the trap of writers who started back then: Thinking that they are writing a never ending soap opera to keep people buying the next issue. You have to give him props for longevity, at least.

12:18 / 19.06.06

I have to ask the question - why do people refer to Peter David as PAD? Is his middle name Alan or something?

I got into Peter David via his run on the Hulk. It wasn't something I would have bought, but a combination of a crossover and having access to remaindered comics at the princely sum of 15p per issue encouraged me to experiment. (so, on rare occaisions, crossovers do work).

His colaboration with Dale Keown really worked. Sadly, Keown was never able to match the work he produced on the Hulk on his Image series and has since drifted out of comics.

I was also delighted by his first run on X-factor. In many ways X-factor was the fore-runner of X-force/X-statix pick a bunch of unknown or second string characters and play about with them, make them the focal point in a media obsessed world.

14:19 / 19.06.06

David refers to himself as PAD sometimes when posting on message boards; no idea what his middle name is.

>> When he's bad, however, he gets overly cute and in-jokey,

Yes, this is very true...he also loves (bad) puns and puts them into his work whenever he can.

14:30 / 19.06.06

Do yourself a favor and pick up the tpb collecting the first 8 issues of PAD's Supergirl book. The art by Gary Frank kicks absolute ass (as Gary Frank is wont to do) and the book represented a real return to form for David (IMHO)--it's up there with his sexiest, nastiest, funniest, actioniest work on HULK or old Spidey. It brought back the Linda Danvers identity with a really nice twist, and it gave the rather silly Matrix-Supergirl concept some real motivation and narrative juice. The banter reminds you where Joss Whedon learned his schtick, the art (again) is gorgeous (especially the covers), and there are some serious FUCK YEAH moments. Plus, the Big Bad is a construct through which PAD unleashes all his ire at the Constantine-alikes that were at that time infecting mainstream comics. Leonard Kirk followed Frank and really hit his stride after a few issues...although, as PAD can tend to do, the book got kind of stuck up its own ass by issue 50. But those first couple years...damn.

And I cannot sing the praises of Spider-Man 2099 enough, especially the first 25 issues. Sweet Elvis I loved that book. At the time it was the best Spider-Man book on the stands without question. When Peter David is on, there are few writers in superheroes who can touch him. Here's to 'im. Thanks for the thread.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

15:37 / 19.06.06

They're up to volume three of Essentials... on his Hulk run. As he says, when he took it over it was a soon to be cancelled book that no-one wanted towrite and so he had some freedom in it.His first year or so of issues, culminating in the Ground Zero story really reflects this as it's written pretty much like a last issue. But by that point I guess he had enough interest to go on. When I dropped the title, after 425 it was mainly due to lack of money but there was also an element of getting annoyed at the in-jokes, there were several pages to set up a joke about the simularity between the Hulk and the Savage Dragon for pete's sake, and that was one of the better ones. So his Hulk run from when he started up to 426 is damn near unmissable. And his final issue is fairly special too.

Shiny: Well Over Thirty

16:17 / 19.06.06

Yeah the Hulk definitely went downhill for a couple of years after issue 425, and I was starting to get the feeling the PAD was only still working on the book out of habit and wasn't too sure where he was going any more for a bit up until the Heros reborn business - but after that point the near cancellelation and the imposed removal of Banner seemed to really give PAD the kick up the arse he needed to turn the book around again, for a final couple of years that was quite possibly his finest work on the title and among his finest works anywhere. The desperate, suffering half-mad bannerless Hulk of that period really got under my skin, and that period included a couple of amazing moments that have stayed with me. The first being a few issues after the new Hulk had turned around and told Betty something like 'Lady, I don't even know who you are', which seemed a pretty clear statement that this Hulk was totally removed from his old self at the time, but the latter reveal with the caption something along the lines of 'and he think of his wife, and the last thing he said to her, which was a lie' was a great woah moment. Another incredible bit from that run was the final issue before Heros return, with the near suicidal Hulk repeating over and again how he wanted more. That issue still sends shivers down my spine.

18:32 / 19.06.06

I have to ask the question - why do people refer to Peter David as PAD? Is his middle name Alan or something?

Yes. Well, okay, it's "Allen," but...

I think he's fairly hit-or-miss, but when he's on, he's very good. The issues of Hulk encompassing Rick Jones' bachelor party and wedding are some of my favorite Hulk stories.

18:56 / 19.06.06

If only the powers at marvel at the time had allowed them to serve beer at Jones' pre-wedding bash... it was in the original art apparently...

Shiny: Well Over Thirty

19:24 / 19.06.06

And why Gary Frank left the title I beleive. He would have happily changed the beer to milk if asked, but he wasn't asked to do so and so was deeply unhappy that someone else had tampered with his art. Entirely pointless and bloody weird to boot as well that since Rick was obviously smashed in the issue anyway, regardless of whether we could see the beer.

00:21 / 20.06.06

The one with the guy dying of AIDS was quite impressive.

I like this new use of 'impressive' to mean 'hamfisted, stupid and offensive'.

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

03:52 / 20.06.06

He has said that there were two things that killed his wanting to write The Hulk: The Heroes Reborn thing, and his divorce from his first wife. It's pretty clear to me that his writing went into a slump around that time, and recovered when he started work on "Fallen Angel", which is a pretty good series.

I really hope he can start showing some skill on his Spider-Man book, since I LOVE Ringo's art, and there is room for a well done Spider-Man title, with two other books that rank as some of the worst mainstream comics being printed.

Shiny: Well Over Thirty

05:53 / 20.06.06

I don't think the Spiderman book is at all bad, althought it's certainly not PAD's best work. The latest issue with the crazy Retcon bombing future Hobgoblin is a heck of a lot of fun, although perhaps deeply messy. I'm also interested in seeing what's going on with the recently uncomatose Flash Thompson. Although i'm hoping his amnesia and reversion to his silver age personality is a plot point rather than a means of permanently turning him back into a total jerk. I think PAD always takes a while to get embedded on a title and that on this book he might even be finding it a bit harder than usual due to it being very cross-over heavy in it's first few issues, PAD in my opinion usually works far better when he's allowed to do his own thing than when he's under a lot of editorial control. Hopefully though he's got a great perspective on what he's going to do with the ID reveal once the current storyline is over, presumably he's been given enough lead time to think that through and come up with something good.

08:26 / 20.06.06

The one with the guy dying of AIDS was quite impressive.

I like this new use of 'impressive' to mean 'hamfisted, stupid and offensive'.

Compared to Northstar coming out on Alpha Flight ? The Hulk/AIDS issue was still a bit of a hamfisted cop-out, what with the hulk being apparently immune it the virus, but it still had its merits.

13:01 / 20.06.06

Okay, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is how I remember that issue.

There are two separate AIDS-related plot strands. One is that an old friend of the Hulk's has AIDS and, after the Hulk rescues him from a rampaging mob of AIDSophobes, the guy asks if the Hulk will let him use an experimental AIDS vaccine he's heard about that the Hulk's pantheon buddies have. Despite the fact that basically nothing the Hulk has ever done is even in the vicinity of legal, he refuses on the grounds that it's illegal to use an experimental vaccine before it's been approved for use on humans. This is a point that ACT UP was protesting (for its lethal effects) at least a decade before the Hulk issue.

The second is about some other friend of the Hulk's starting out working at a helpline. She gets a call from some high school jock who has AIDS, oh my God, anyone can get it! The climax of the issue has him talking on a mobile while parked on train tracks, and the Hulk's friend basically decides it's okay for a doomed AIDS case to die but the main thing is he tells her who he might have given it to. So the guy is about to die and the drama is not that he might die, but that he might not give her someone else's name in time.

I'm sorry, I'm not willing to accept that 'better than Northstar's coming out moment' is a meaningful standard for, well, anything.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

14:17 / 20.06.06

It was Betty working on a hotline IIRC. She doesn't 'decide to let him die' but it's a matter that they've been talking all night and it's all "I can see the train coming now" "I don't want you to die but will you at least tell me the name of your girlfriend, she needs to know and get tested" "OK it's- ooh pretty lights" SPLAT.

What offended me was that we have the issue in which the guy tells Rick and Bruce that he has teh AIDS, he then disappears for about twenty issues and then comes back, seriously ill and dies. When confronted on this the editor (Bobbi Chase I think) smacks the letter writer down saying "this is The Incredible Hulk, not The Incredible Companion", right after the two-issue Rick and Marlo stag parties/wedding and the several year running plot line of the Rick/Marlo romance.

I understand something that affected PAD's willingness to work on Marvel titles was the crossover frenzy of early 90s. My understanding was that that was what stopped him working on X-Factor suddenly and aggravated him on Hulk.

14:40 / 20.06.06

Jackie - It looks like I was referring to a completely different Peter David written AIDS story

My one featured Sam Wilson as the gay nephew of the Falcon and old Friend of Bruce's. IIRC Sam had AIDS and was working for a local hospice type place. Unfortunately, the hospice had come under attack by a drug-addict supervillian in the employ of a crime boss. The focus of the drugged-up supervillain was the boyfriend of the crime boss's son. The son and his lover had both apparently contracted AIDS, we know not from where, the important point was the son was fairing far worse than his lover. It was this key point that seemed to be the biggest bone of contention for the crime boss - not that his son was gay so much as that his son was AIDS infected and dying while his partner appeared relatively healthy.

Anyhow Rick jones turns up and does a charity gig that the drugged up supervillan crashes. Using retractable swords, the villain slashes open rick's hands and gives wilson a chest wound. Rick is thus faced with the delema of attempting to save his friend by applying first aid direct pressure to the wound thus potentially exposing his own open wounds to his friend's AIDS infected blood.

The Hulk also suffers a knife wound in the battle but jumps in just at the moment that Rick realises he isn't going to help Sam. The hulk rushes in to do what Jones was unwilling to do, adding that with his healing factor he is probably immune to AIDS anyway, thus copping out somewhat.

In the heat of the battle The gangster's son quietly dies.

I might be mis-remembering a few details here and there, but this struck me as having some redeeming features...

14:43 / 20.06.06

>> don't think the Spiderman book is at all bad, althought it's certainly not PAD's best work. The latest issue with the crazy Retcon bombing future Hobgoblin is a heck of a lot of fun, although perhaps deeply messy. ...... Hopefully though he's got a great perspective on what he's going to do with the ID reveal once the current storyline is over,

I've quite enjoyed Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man, despite the lame name....'fun' is definitely the word for it.

PAD has said that Flash Thompson's reaction to learning that Peter is Spidey will be lots of fun; basically playing on the dynamic of him looking down on Parker but hero-worshipping Spider-Man, as Flash tries to reconcile the two in his thick head.

14:46 / 20.06.06

The issue that I'm talking about was HULK 388...

Shiny: Well Over Thirty

16:24 / 20.06.06

I think as Flowers says it's far more the fact that Jim Wilson was only appeared to come out as being infected and then to die that's a big problem with the AIDS stories rather than the stories themselves. If he'd been shown a bit before the reveal and inbetween I think any problems could have been forgiven. I think in the issues that actually touched on in PAD did as good a job on the topic as anyone could have done in a comic code approved superhero book at that time. Also as I recall the Hulk did give Jim the pantheon's experimental cure in the end - it just didn't work. What he did flat out refuse to do was give Jim a shot of his blood, something which almost certainly would have worked, but might well have turned Jim into a monster, and in terms of the real world would have been a horribly insensitive unpleasant plot development.

17:14 / 20.06.06

Yeah, the second 'half' of this story is something that I missed - it came well after I had stopped reading the HULK, more than a year after the original story was published...

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

20:27 / 20.06.06

The first trade's worth for Fallen Angel is quite good, although at times the story "rules" aren't as clear as they could be. I liked the duality of Bete Noir. I tried to read the recent revival but didn't get into it as much. I'm not sure exactly why, though. It had a rich cast of characters and I loved the double life Lee had, even if the connection wasn't always readily obvious...

Young Justice was in-jokey but it worked for me; it felt like silly technicolour superhero hijinks without as much angst. It was funny and at times it worked, other times it didn't. It led to the "Sins of Youth" story arc that I loved. Looking at it in comparison to the Johns Teen Titans it had a lot of spunk that seems to be have been removed; they've given in to straight-laced angstful teen heroics. Bart Allen's transition is a case in point; his shift from being Impulse to Kid Flash obliterated some of the character distinctions and he seems more and more like Wally West. The pop culture referencing he does so often is just one particular quirk of his writing and he's hardly the only one to do it) - I don't know. I sometimes wonder if it wouldn't be such a big deal if characters were allowed to age properly rather than having the 10-year time slide constantly applied to them.

Madrox was brilliant and I think in the end I prefer it to the most recent X-Factor partly because it had actually had consistent artwork that I liked (rather than just buying the first couple of X-Factors until Sook left), didn't get caught up right away in a dubious time travel thing, and didn't have Layla Miller (who was okay in the one creepy issue but ultimately bothered me because it was so clear she'd been shoehorned in to the character dynamic).

22:33 / 20.06.06

I think what annoyed me about the (second) "AIDS" issue was that it was just that - the "AIDS" issue, in big flashing lights (I might be wrong, but I think they replaced the standard top left cover Hulk logo with a red ribbon). If you're going to set up your story like, this is the one about a serious issue, I think you might, like, think it through a little more. (I hadn't been reading long enough to know the guy had been a recurring character, so I missed the 'he comes back and dies' bit and thought it was a 'we invent some new schmuck who dies' bit.)

22:54 / 27.06.06

Well, I was talking about the first one, with Hulk’s friend dying of Aids and his wife working on a helpline. And, okay, I agree it was not the best story PAD ever wrote (that was Rick Jones Wedding) but I still think it was impressive. It’s sensitive, dramatic. It’s not a story about superheroes, supervillains and things like that. And even the ending, with the guy committing suicide before telling his girlfriend name is kind of a cool, indirect advice to everyone do an HIV test. Like “check – you may not know how you got infected” or something like that. And, remeber, it happened before the major comics started talking about AIDS. It’s still full of prejudice (like Jim telling he has AIDS in one issue, disappearing and then coming back months later simply to die), but it was a sincere starting point…

(By the way, are you reading Green Arrow/New Titans? There is the same situation going on (one of the characters has got AIDS) and Judd Winick is also doing a good job.)

I didn’t read the other story, with the supervillain dating the son of the gangster. Or I completely forgot and obliterated it. I agree it sounds hamfisted and stupid.

And, talking about Northstar’s coming out… well it was much better then the other guy saying he was that way because he and his sister were elves…

05:48 / 28.06.06

The Rick Jones bachelor party issue completely fucked my 9 year old mind up. The Thing, Silver surfer, "Cap" (we're buddies thus the familiarity) etc get drunk and watch porn that featured the grooms soon to be wife.

06:00 / 28.06.06

Seconded for Young Justice. An absolutley blinding series and the only real succesor to the Giffen League stories. Funny, with characters you care about, and capable of real drama. Wonderful book.