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Underground > Creation >

Self-publishing/print on demand

18:27 / 16.06.06

Just wondering if any of the writerly sorts here had tried or was thinking of trying self-publication? (I hope this is appropriate for here - I'm a clueless newbie. And I'm sorry if there's been a thread on this before, but various versions of "self-publishing" and "print on demand" give no results.)

Last winter while suffering from insomnia I found Lulu.com and was overcome with enthusiasm for the idea of publishing my travel journals through them. I'm working on several novels in hope of traditional publication, but it seemed like a good idea to have something I'd finished and polished that I could show to agents (hey, look, I'm not just a dabbler! I'm a person who finishes books!). Hopefully also sell a few copies (realistically, probably just to my friends, my mum, etc) and have some of my work out there in the world doing something – no matter how small – while I'm sitting around waiting for The Big Book Deal™ to come through.

The plan's changed a lot since then. The journals have doubled in size because I came over all perfectionistic and had to fill in all the bits I didn't manage to write while on the road, and I've decided not to go with Lulu (because when ordering to the UK the shipping costs almost as much as the books) and have found a printer in this country which is slightly more expensive, though I should make the cost back on shipping. I've also lost my enthusiasm, as often happens at the end of a project. So I'm thinking my travel journals are horribly banal and middle-class-touristy and not worth the time I've spent writing extra material and designing a cover, but what the heck – I'm in the final stages of editing, I've come this far and I might as well go on.

So. What are your opinions on self-publishing and print-on-demand? If you've done it, any triumphs or horror stories to relate? Did you get your books into bookshops? How did you promote yourself? If you're thinking of doing it, I'm happy to tell what I've discovered along the way. Maybe you think it's destroying the publishing world. Maybe you think it's The Future. Either way, I'm curious.

MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!

19:31 / 16.06.06

I'm getting a demo comic done through Comixpress right now to send to prospective publishers. I'll let you know how it turns out...

11:56 / 17.06.06

Please do! Is it just for publishers, or will you be distributing it anywhere else? How many are you having done?

19:19 / 17.06.06

Ok, as a former bookseller, I can offer the following advice.
1) If you self-publish through what we call here "vanity publishers" you will not get stocked in bookshops. Ever. Except perhaps as a local curiosity. Booksellers' lives are complicated enough without having to deal with publishers whose raison d'etre is to fleece authors.
2) If a publisher asks you for money to publish your book, run a mile.
3) However, print-on-demand is interesting. It's a brilliant model for books that might not have a large audience and if it's well integrated into the teleordering/wholesaler supply chain, they are just great. I think the only publisher that was doing it when I left a couple of years ago was House of Stratus, who had presses in Gardners' warehouse (our main wholesaler and customer order suppliers) which meant there was a massive range of previously out-of-print books you could get for customers within 24 hours. The overheads will be non-existent as there's no stockholding, so you should make more money on each sale. For specialist and minority interest stuff, I'd say it would be worth a punt. Just make sure the contract says you keep enough control over your rights so that if it gets popular you can switch to a major publisher and benefit from their marketing and economies of scale.
4) The downside is that PoD have historically been firm sale - which is an expression to make booksellers hackles rise unless they get a REALLY good discount (say 60%+) to compensate for any risk - and firm sale titles are generally not stocked in quantity. I'm not clear on the mechanics but I'd guess going sale or return (which is the standard model) in PoD will cut into your personal margin, but it might be worth taking the risk.

I'm sure there's more, but let me know if that's helpful.

19:41 / 17.06.06

My friend and I are editing a comic anthology and we're publishing it through Lulu.

I'll let you know how it goes.

20:46 / 17.06.06

Trouble with lulu for us Brits is that you get caned on the postage. Why oh why isn't there one in England? If they just had a printing base (or distribution centre, since the printing is probably done Somewhere In Asia) here I'd be all over it.

23:04 / 17.06.06

Autran - thing is, there are printers in the UK who will do basically what Lulu does: you send them PDFs, they set up and print your book. There's a setup fee, but cost per book is lower. When I did the sums I found out that ordering 25 books from Lulu and having them posted over here would cost pretty much the same as 25 books from a UK printer, with local postage, even factoring in the setup fee. I think I'm going with Antony Rowe, who seem quite reasonable and do nifty things like matt laminated covers.

Lulu is nice in that it apparently gets you ISBNs, though, which straightforward printers don't. I had to sort that out myself.

Cube - a lot of useful details in there, thanks. Since I'm basically acting as my own publisher I won't have a contract with anyone involved, as I understand it, so in the unlikely event of my book getting picked up by a real publisher all I'll have to do is say yes, bounce up and down and squee a lot.

Talking of dodgy vanity publishers, have you guys heard the story of Atlanta Nights by Travis Tea? V funny.

00:18 / 18.06.06

I've been pointed at Lulu for my first scifi novel. I'm probably going to do it this fall. Mostly I just want the project put to bed and it seems like a great way to do so.

01:12 / 18.06.06

Oh, I so know what you mean about putting it to bed. I have this powerful desire to hold a bound book that I've written in my hands, and this way I know I can actually make it happen within a short time. It's not just something that might happen somewhere way down the line as a result of the submit-wait, submit-wait process, and that's if I get really lucky...

Point me at yours if you do it! I like the sci-fi.

11:15 / 18.06.06

Antony Rowe looks interesting, thanks.

19:11 / 18.06.06

I think that if you are printing your book for the hopes of selling it, you are throwing money away.

But

If you are doing it to have your name in print, 'vanity', then hell, go for it.

I did.

My book looks great, and you know what, I give it out to people for Christmas presents. Really, if nothing else it is a fun cheap gift that gets a lot of laughs when you say, "I got a thousand of these fuckers printed, I have got to get rid of them somehow."

19:35 / 18.06.06

yes I have made peace with my book not being famous or profitable. But it is still my art and I'd like to have it framed. It will also be a way to put it into the world for strangers to find.

Maybe I'll sneak it into store book shelves, or libraries or mail it to random people in far away lands.

I'll certainly pimp it here because I'd love to know what you think.

22:25 / 18.06.06

Maybe I'll sneak it into store book shelves

Don't waste your time. People try this fairly often. The shelves are checked every day and weird stuff that shouldn't be there gets thrown away. As in binned, not even pulped.

*

19:59 / 20.06.06

I'm thinking of trying Lulu out for my undergrad thesis. (Yes, I know, undergrad theses aren't worthy of seeing print. Ever. But, um... well, actually, I don't really have an excuse.) Any advice?

13:59 / 21.06.06

Something I've heard from a few people is that you should send Lulu a PDF rather than a word document. Though they say they take word docs, they've been known to muck them up.

What's your thesis about?

Oh, and an update of sorts (though I hope this isn't too get-a-blog). I got a quote and a brochure from RPM, a printer who seems to be trying to poach me from Antony Rowe. They won't - their setup fee is fifty quid more, and they don't print individual copies when they get orders, like AR do. The brochure is... interesting. It has a listing of the other self-published books they print, and... well.

You know how I was worrying about not being edgy enough? This is the blurb of a book called "Pollywogs and Shellbacks Afloat": "an amusing account of places visited, people met, and happy days passed floating gently round the world told in a chatty friendly way which makes it ideal holiday reading... There are some rather startling happenings, and unexpected events."

Suddenly, by comparison, I feel like Bret Easton Ellis.

*

17:02 / 21.06.06

Yeah, I would pretty much have to send a pdf, as I've got wonky greek bits in. My thesis is about the gallae, transgender priests of ancient Greece, Rome, and prior to all that Phrygia. It's not good/long enough to be properly academic and it's not exciting enough to be popular, so I expect it'll sell %really well%. But at any rate I'll have a book in publication, which will be nice to put on a CV.

*

19:41 / 21.06.06

bother. I need a free pdf creator for Mac that can embed fonts. Any suggestions/offers?

21:32 / 21.06.06

Don't know if they have a mac version but try openoffice.org

ONLY NICE THINGS

15:34 / 22.06.06

There's a MAc version of OpenOffice, but it uses the X11 engine. Much neater is neooffice, a labour-of-love reconstruction of the Openoffice functionality in native Mac language.

Link here.

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16:05 / 23.06.06

Erg. Neo-office has made me mad, for it takes incredibly long to start up and is unstable on my machine for some reason.

But, I have found other solutions. In this case involving the "borrowing" of a friendly housemate's acrobat. I'm not going to link my finished product here because it has my Real Name(tm) on it, but I expect a search for "gallae" will turn it up.

Thanks for the suggestions all!

09:00 / 26.06.06

i've self-published stuff here in the Philippines--two comicbook anthologies, one about 100+ pages long, the other 40 pages--and i'm still going about self-publishing because comics aren't as popular here as they are abroad.

Still, my personal rule when it comes to self-publishing: it's perfectly fine, as long as you don't expect any money back. Be prepared to lose the money you invested. If you do earn profit (which, in fairness, has happened to me) then that's a bonus.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

16:26 / 30.06.06

I've self-published Zebra Magazine , a sci-fi anthology featuring the work of local (Northeast) creators and of a few lithers as well.

It premiered at MoCCA this past June.

... and cost me an arm and a leg to print.

16:56 / 04.07.06

I have a bit of experience with self-publishing.. We went that route to get my dad's book(s) out there. The biggest hurdles we had were a) costing, as we can't afford to give the bookshops the huge cut they'd like, and b) getting on board with a distributor. Once we'd done that it's just a case of convincing bookshops to carry your book as the actual ordering process is standard. Happy to go into it further in PMs if useful.

MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!

17:24 / 04.07.06

Following up on the Post Of Long Ago:

Quite impressed with the quality of Comixpress' work, but not so much with their scheduling skills. They've assured me that they're working on it, but since summer is convention season what will take one month to get done in February suddenly takes three in May through July.

Not THAT expensive... if you're printing a black and white comic and want to support a Comixpress full-page ad on one of the interior pages or any cover page except the front-front cover (for obvious reasons).

I recommend it IF you're doing something on a lark. In my case, it's almost as cheap to have a full on staple-bound "comic book" printed to pitch to publishers as it is to have professional-quality printing done. My first comic project was done with printing at home, folders from an office supply store, self-printed stickers and stationery... and wound up costing about 75% of what it would cost just to get 50 copies of a sample comic to send all over the map. And this thing LOOKS AND ACTS LIKE A COMIC, so it's a much better approach than a lot of pieces of paper stapled or paperclipped together.

If I were seriously into self-publishing and distribution and Doing A Comic Book Properly, I'd be talking to Quebecor about "real" printing. But for pitches and small-scale fun projects, I think Comixpress provides a great service.

19:11 / 11.07.06

I only skimmed your initial post but perhaps you can find a solution here: http://blurb.com

I found the software to be cumbersome and restrictive but it may suit your needs. Good luck.