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The Aquatic Ape Theory

 
 
Quantum
17:51 / 12.06.06
After a search the only reference to this I could find was an old post-
This gets us back to the issue of H. erectus managing water travel, which has always been a bone of contention among the homonid specialists. I just dread hearing more from the "aquatic ape" theorists. (entity)
so I thought it might be worth bringing up. It's also in response to If we really want to get things going, we should discuss evolutionary psychology, because that includes lots of claims about sex and relationships that people can get excited, and argumentative, about.
(Lurid, science reading group thread) although I suppose it's biology rather than psychology.

So, in a nutshell, there's a theory that early humanity lived on the coast and by bodies of water rather than on the dry savannah as most people assert. We went back into the water essentially because there's more plentiful food, it's easier to escape predators, and so forth. Evidence for it is our ability to hold our breath, webbed hands and feet, downward pointy noses, ability to swim from birth etc. Elaine Morgan wrote a famous book about it and reckons we moved inland about 5 million years ago.

Here's some links-
wikipedia entry
Elaine Morgan's version
An Anti-AAH site

If it is bunk, can anyone explain to me why our noses point downwards and we're hairy on top?
 
 
*
20:50 / 12.06.06
I think first it's important to remember that evolution doesn't work by the Spore model. Science does not design creatures with the best features to fit a particular environment. Mutations can stick around just because they don't hurt a given creature's chances of survival.

The biggest problem with the aquatic ape theory is that it tries to explain something which doesn't need an elaborate explanation using a theory that doesn't make sense for which there is no evidence.
 
 
SteppersFan
21:27 / 12.06.06
Id:
The biggest problem with the aquatic ape theory is that it tries to explain something which doesn't need an elaborate explanation using a theory that doesn't make sense for which there is no evidence.

Sorry Id, could you unpack that a bit for me please? Looking at the wiki entry I don't understand which bits of the aquatic ape theory you're critiquing? A bit more detail would help me. Thanks!
 
 
Evil Scientist
08:12 / 13.06.06
The biggest problem with the aquatic ape theory is that it tries to explain something which doesn't need an elaborate explanation using a theory that doesn't make sense

You may have a point about there not being enough evidence to support it, but looking at the wiki for Aquatic Ape Theory it doesn't seem to be particularly elaborate, and the theory certainly isn't the most outlandish I've heard.

I'm not sure about how valid it is though. If we'd specialised as semi-aquatic creatures then what prompted the development of humans in non-costal areas? I suppose that, if theories of a near-extinction event at the dawn of human development are accurate, our ancestors were forced to move inland to survive and lost some of the specialised characteristics and kept others (respiratory control can be quite handy).
 
 
Lurid Archive
10:22 / 13.06.06
I've no particular axe to grind here, though after quick look at the links provided, the anti-AAH site looks more convincing to me. I'm no expert, however, so I'd like to hear more from anyone knowledgable about this. Its a shame, in a way, since the aquatic ape sounds like a cute theory, but of course that is the danger with evolutionary just so stories.
 
 
Quantum
10:29 / 13.06.06
I found the pro and anti sites both to be pretty weak, attacking each other rather than examining the theory. That's why I brought it here TBH, to try and sort out what's plausible, my evolutionary biology is pretty sketchy.

Entity? Enlighten us? The poor methodology makes me suspicious but the criticisms I've found don't seem to explain the bits I'm interested in- why don't apes have noses, why are humans naked? A semi-aquatic lifestyle at some point in our evolution seems quite likely to me, can you explain why it's an unnecessary theory?
 
 
*
16:45 / 13.06.06
I keep starting to post a solid response to this thread and having the post eaten by the tendency of my web-browser to reload the page at random intervals. Also, I have my final presentation today for my class, which I've been preparing for the last few weeks. The assignment: In ten weeks, do everything on paper that you'd need to do in reality to research, invent, plan, market, budget, organize, fund, build, and manage a brand new museum. So I'm a little rushed. I'll get back to this later.
 
 
SteppersFan
18:16 / 13.06.06
Nice one, thanks. Best of luck with the assignment.
 
 
grant
03:13 / 14.06.06
Museum of the Aquatic Ape! We'll help.

I'll even design a diorama for you....
 
 
All Acting Regiment
08:47 / 14.06.06
Apes use fur for heat management, don't they? And we have better methods, such as sweating, and even then we're not entirely fur free- we have hair on the brain box and genitals to keep those vital bits warm.
 
 
Lurid Archive
10:08 / 14.06.06
I found the pro and anti sites both to be pretty weak, attacking each other rather than examining the theory.

But given that the anti-AAH site claims that the evidence produced to support the Aquatic Ape theory is mostly false or misleading, this doesn't seem like a real criticism. I bring it up because I am wondering whether some of the modes of scientific discourse are a bit alien to some people, and whether that is an issue worth considering. Certainly, the "two sides with different opinions" approach can be an extremely inappropriate way to look at scientific controversies, and the media adoption of this model is a problem - in the global warming debate, for instance.
 
 
Red Concrete
21:53 / 14.06.06
I have to agree with what (I think) id was getting at, that there is a danger of second-guessing or plain misleading oneself if one tries too hard to come up with a theory.

I wouldn't say that AAH is impossible, in fact it might be a fairly good competitor to the Savanna theory. Which, I might add, I would like to read more about - does anyone have any links?

I think the outcome of David Blaine's latest stunt pretty much shows that we're not designed for full-time (or probably even majority-time) aquatic living.

I have also problems (sea or savanna) with ascribing evolutionary advantage to individual and social behaviour, in the way that AAH does. It's not scientific, it's speculation.

We can't know for sure what happened millions of years ago - there's no experiment/observation you can make to prove either theory, without some form of time machine...

The traits (genetic or not) which the AAH proponents put forward as examples of semi-aquatic living millions of years ago, could well be present due to chance, and not due to a selective advantage. This is particularly the case for genetic traits (and possibly non-genetic?) after a population bottleneck, and humans have been through plenty (yes, we're inbred monsters - especially us european/asians that got out of Africa with a few relatives and founded new nothern colonies...)

I have niggling doubts about the specifics of either theory, but mostly AAH because it seems they've gone fishing for anything that might support their theory.
 
 
*
15:56 / 16.06.06
Now I'm sure I've forgotten all about what I was going to say. Thank you for your patience.

The main problem I have with AAH is that it was constructed as a theoretical model not on the strength of evidence in its favor, but on the strength of (perceived) lack of evidence for Savannah Theory. Ever since, its proponents have been arguing focusing on the lack of evidence against it for a variety of reasons, notably that fossil preservation in warm moist habitats is not very good. That's a double standard— if Savannah theory isn't good enough because there isn't enough evidence, then AAH for damn sure isn't good enough because there isn't enough evidence. And frankly the evidence for Savannah theory is better than they claim.

Now, call me a humanities major, but this is not the way science works. You formulate your theories to fit your available evidence, not the other way around. If something is inconsistent with Savannah theory, you think about what you can test, or what evidence you can look for, that would demonstrate an alternative model, not "what alternative model would be neat?" and then look for evidence in favor of that one.

Frankly, downward pointing noses and similar are not strong enough evidence to cast serious doubt on Savannah theory. Evolution doesn't work the way it would have to for that to be a big deal. Adaptation doesn't work on the Spore model. That is to say, no one is sitting behind the curtain going "Hmm, they're starting to splish around in puddles, now... Better start making them hairless and give them webbing between the digits." Evolution doesn't have a goal in mind and produce adaptations best suited for that goal (unless you're an Intelligent Designer, in which case all bets are off). It doesn't select adaptations from a bank of useful adaptations and just stick them on creatures, either. Evolution is more of a trial-and-success game. Creatures are just as likely to have a feature just because it was a mutation which didn't hurt its chances of survival. A distinction needs to be made between discovering how features came about, and justifying why they might have come about, because these are different things. The latter assumes a reason, which is easy to project into the evidence even if it's not actually supported. I think to some extent popular books on evolutionary biology have done harm here by focusing so much on demonstrating the "reasons" for various adaptations that people feel every identifiable feature of an animal must have a reason, a purpose.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
17:04 / 16.06.06
Am I the only one thinking that downward pointing noses = pointing into the water, thus drown, and surely nose on top of head, such as Dolphins, is better?
 
 
Quantum
17:44 / 16.06.06
downward pointing noses = pointing into the water

Think about it, if you had a nose like a chimp the water would flood in. A downward nose would be better for swimming.

I'm going to have a better look at both theories I think and report back. I'm aware not all mutations are adaptive and can just be harmless, but I'm not convinced savannah theory won't one day be refined or amended. I didn't realise the AAT was so sketchy though, I wonder if there's any nuggets one could salvage.
 
 
*
01:59 / 17.06.06
On the other hand, if our noses were on top of our heads we would drown when it rained.
 
 
Red Concrete
22:30 / 17.06.06
Air tries to go up in water, so downward-pointing noses should keep the air in... but I don't buy it.

I think the better, and more widespread, adaptation is to have closable nostrils, like the dolphins/whales, turtles...

A more basic criticsm of the nostril argument for AAH is that having chimp-like nostrils would have to have a strong (negative) selective pressure in aquatic proto-humans, i.e. it would have to actually kill a lot of them. I can't see that ever having happened, but maybe I'm wrong. Not being able to swim, or accidents, tend to drown people/animals, not the fact that your air falls out of your face. Also, there is a fair amount of variation in nose shapes in modern humans - it seems to be a trait that's fairly free of selective pressures. *shrug*
 
 
All Acting Regiment
10:09 / 18.06.06
Are our hands particularly webbed? I mean, there's a little bit of skin there, sure, we don't have Aye-Aye type fingers, but I was looking at my cat's toes and she has little webs too. She scratched me to shit actually.
 
 
Red Concrete
11:49 / 18.06.06
Here's a comparison of the hands of the big apes. None of them are "webbed", in the sense that frogs feet are...
 
 
quixote
03:39 / 19.06.06
Based on current human characteristics, it's entirely reasonable to hypothesize some degree of adaptation to a littoral lifestyle. The shores in question could have been at ponds, rivers, lakes, or sea coasts, or all of them. There's no necessary contradiction with the hot-dry savannah model, because humans could have been the apes concentrated around the rivers or water holes. (That said, Elaine Morgan ran rather far ahead of the facts in some of her work.)

As for the characteristics:
webbed hands: compared to other great apes, we have very flexible hands and can spread our fingers much farther. The latter alone could account for what seems like a "webbed" effect. In other words, our hands aren't webbed in the sense that a duck's feet are.

nakedness, subcutaneous fat layer, ability to hold breath: definite arguments for adaptation to frequent immersion.

bipedalism: adequately explained by the selective advantage conferred by having a free hand, even two free hands. Tool use, ability to carry larger-brained infants, etc., etc. Really a stretch to call this an indication of adaptation to aquatic lifestyles.

water birthing: under the levels of asepsis present in the natural environment would lead to what we biologists call strong negative selective pressure. In other words, infections would kill mother and probably child at such elevated rates that women who had the sense to stay OUT of the water would tend to have many more surviving offspring.

nutrition: omega-3 fatty acids. If we spent a lot of time being littoral apes, who knows?, maybe we ate lots of freshwater clams? Need for omega-3 could also be relatively recent development, in that we may have lost the ability to synthesize our own recently. Also, we don't need much, and can survive long enough to reproduce with practically none in the diet. Seems a very weak argument to say that this is evidence of an aquatic lifestyle.

Tears: pure bunk. The amount of salt we lose through tears is, well, microscopic. Unless being expelled from Paradise led to a lot more weeping than seems reasonable, this idea makes no sense. We do lose salt through sweating, but that seems more of a side-effect than an adaptation.

Mating position: Given bipedalism and the ability to have sex in all kinds of ways, the question isn't "Why?" but "Why not?" Through most of our history as a species, women haven't spent their adult lives swaddled in tents. When women can go for the sex they want, I can imagine several reasons, which have nothing to do with aqautic lifestyles, why men with more versatility could be more interesting.

To sum up, we have some adaptations that look a lot like what you'd expect in an animal that's in and out of the water quite a bit. However, the "Aquatic Ape Hypothesis" goes well beyond the facts, and even contradicts some of them.
 
 
Quantum
14:44 / 19.06.06
Thank you Quixote, that post elegantly expressed pretty much what I think. Other advantages of littoral living like escaping predators do incline me to think there's something to the idea, but Elaine Morgan seems to have done more harm than good.
The subcutaneous fat seems to me to be explained in the wikipedia article "The quality of having many small and numerous fat cells under the skin is not unique to humans among land animals, rather it shared with many species including hedgehogs, monkeys and badgers."

Here's an interesting pro site river apes dot com where they propose an Aquatic Hybrid Ape Hypothesis.
 
  
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