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The Sad State of the American Populace

 
 
Triumvir
04:16 / 09.06.06
When i read this, I nearly cried: this season's American Idol winner got 64 million votes. Thats more votes than either Mr. Bush or Mr. Kerry got in 2004. The total number of votes cast was larger than the number of votes cast in ANY presidential election EVER. Am I the only one who is woried that the American people are so disinteristed in politics?
 
 
sleazenation
07:25 / 09.06.06
I suppose it depends whether or not you lean towards the idea of compulsory voting, and or voting being the defining moment of a democracy.

I don't believe it is. I think the problem is not so much the amount of people who vote, but rather who those that vote will turn out for and why.

For me, a successful vibrant democracy needs a well-educated, emancipated and engaged population. It also needs to be free from corruption, but I think that an educated, emancipated and engaged population will strive for this anyway. Without these conditions, voting itself becomes an empty act.

Contrast elections in Russia or some of the African republics where one particular leader will be reelected for as long as he stands purely by virtue of beeing the encombant. Maybe I'm just being idealistic, thinking that that such things don't happen in the UK and US where there are checks and balences that work to prevent the executive reigning indefinitely...
 
 
elene
10:15 / 09.06.06
Contrast elections in Russia or some of the African republics where one particular leader will be reelected for as long as he stands purely by virtue of beeing the encombant.

I don't think Putin's been automatically elected. He's been elected because he has a strong base, because before his first election he had the support of Yeltsin's inner circle and since then controls the media and is incumbent. I can't see a significant difference to Bush. Putin doesn't control all the media either, by the way, just those parts that matter.

One might well not agree with his actions in Chechnya, or his handling of Yukos - though that latter was definitely in the interests of the Russian people - but he is democratically elected and he has served those who elected him, and the majority of the Russian people, better than most of their previous leaders.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
13:02 / 09.06.06
When i read this, I nearly cried: this season's American Idol winner got 64 million votes. Thats more votes than either Mr. Bush or Mr. Kerry got in 2004. The total number of votes cast was larger than the number of votes cast in ANY presidential election EVER. Am I the only one who is woried that the American people are so disinteristed in politics?

Just fyi. You can vote as many times as you want for American Idol, so I wouldn't take that number super seriously.
 
 
Triumvir
13:11 / 09.06.06
Keith:

ohhhhhhhhh. that makes my entire point moot, but it does make me feel a lot better. thanks man.
 
 
ibis the being
20:14 / 09.06.06
Keith's right, and to add to that, you only have to pick up your phone and text message or vote online. You don't have to take an hour or two off work on a Tuesday and get to a voting booth. Not to mention the idea that American Idol is purely a popularity contest, and the Presidential elections are slightly more complex, as they should be. Fox loves to tout the voting comparison just as a brag on how popular the show is - but they're talking apples and oranges.

Am I concerned about how disinterested Americans are in politics? Yes and no. I don't want more people to vote for the President with the best hair or the funniest dance moves. I also don't want more people to get sucked into debating (screaming) about whether or not Terry Schiavo should be taken off life support (or similar non-issues). I do want people to be more informed about politics (which is partly the responsibilities of the media and the government not censoring/influencing the media), and I want more people to vote not only in Presidential elections but in Congressional, State, and local elections. I enjoyed the Conversation thread on Should Voting Be Compulsory?, you may want to have a look at that if you haven't already.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
05:21 / 20.06.06
The other thing that I think plays a huge factor in Americans not voting is that it is an explicit strategy for politicians to suppress the vote and try to keep the undecided people home. I've read a LOT of reports about hwo political advisors know that negative ads don't help their candidate, but they make undecided voters feel that it's a waste of time, causing them to stay home so that the hard-core base has more influence.
 
 
semioticrobotic
11:43 / 04.07.06
The always-poignant Henry Jenkins has much to say about this:

Of course, if we could have cast multiple votes for our favorite candidates in the last election, there's no question that the folks at Moveon.org and Salon and... would have stood there all day casting their ballots for John Kerry or that churchs would have weighed in even more heavily across the Bible Belt.
 
 
elene
09:54 / 26.07.06
50 percent of U.S. says Iraq had WMDs

Half of Americans now say Iraq had weapons of mass destruction when the United States invaded the country in 2003 -- up from 36 percent last year, a Harris poll finds. Pollsters deemed the increase both "substantial" and "surprising" in light of persistent press reports to the contrary in recent years.
...
Seventy-two percent of respondents said the Iraqi people are better off now than under Saddam Hussein's regime -- a figure similar to that of 2004, when it stood at 76 percent. In addition, 64 percent say Saddam had "strong links" with al Qaeda, up from 62 percent in October 2004. Fifty-five percent said that "history will give the U.S. credit for bringing freedom and democracy to Iraq."
...
The poll of 1,020 adults was conducted July 5 to 11 [2006] and has a margin of error of three percentage points.
 
 
Quantum
14:01 / 26.07.06
First- jaw dropping amazement. The most lied to country in world maybe? How, what, I'm speechless... what WMDs? Did half the population just dream they found a nuke? What. The. Fuck?
Can some American posters explain, I'm hoping it's a misleading statistic. (second, elene the link seems broken).
 
 
Ticker
14:52 / 26.07.06
I'm looking for some place to rant about my government for a moment so this seems like a good place....

The current administration has stated we are not nation building, not becoming a colonial power, not implementing some fucked up Pax Americana. These denials indicate a self aware estimation of these things as bad, non productive, and crazy talk.

Yet when I look at my governement's policy in action what I see is a backhanded weirdly passive aggressive attempt at the above 'wrongs'. I'm no neo-con to think Pax Americana would be a great healing oppression of forcible conformity....

so what is up with selecting the parts we can 'get away with'?

What are we doing in Iraq if not a half assed shoddy job of nation building?

Nation-building refers to the process of constructing or structuring a nation using the power of the state. This process aims at the unification of the people or peoples within the state so that it remains politically stable and viable in the long run. Nation-building can involve the use of propaganda or major infrastructure development to foster social harmony and economic growth.

..uh...


The term Pax Americana (Latin: "American Peace") denotes the period of perceived peace in the Western world since the end of World War II in 1945, coinciding with the dominant military and economic position of the United States. It places the US in the military and diplomatic role of a modern-day Roman Empire or British Empire (based on Pax Romana and Pax Britannica, respectively). ...


What my fellow Americans think is going on.
 
 
Char Aina
09:59 / 28.07.06
i'm not willing to accept that the entire american populace can be characterised too simply, but i would like to examine the belief expressed by dragon that america is a country unlikely to use nuclear and biological weapons mostly based, it seems, on hir belief that the Use of such a weapon is not in [america's] philosophy.

as the only nation on earth to have thrown nuclear bombs at a civilian poulation as a tactic of war, i think it is fair to say that they have precedent.

people can do horrific things.
to suggest that americans would not be just like people and do horrific things is, i think, ridiculous.
even if they had not already perpetrated one of the greatest atrocities of the 20th century, i think it would still be ludicrous to assume that they necessarily would not.

i think that to have the impression of your own country as a nation apart is dangerous, and i wonder how many americans share this self-conception of dragon's.
the american populace is often characterised in the media of other nations as being out of touch and unaware of it's own footprint on the world. the idea that americans arent able to find most countries on a map, let alone tell you what their own nation is doing to them is a common one.

i wonder how true this view of americans is in general, how much the population is blithely unaware of their own nation's history of aggression and intervention.

(clearly other countries are just as bad in lots of ways.
america is just people, and people are bad.
the only difference i see with america is that historical accident has led them to a place where they have a higher capability for destruction than most, and more political room to use it.)






quantum linked to this article over in conversation, and i think it might be of use to anyone who has read what i have just written as unrealistic.


some more links that may be of interest;

the nuclear wepaon archive

death by american bombing and other democicide
and from the same source
was world war II
american urban bombing
democide?


"from george washington to george bush, biological weapons have been part of american history"

US army plans to bulk-buy anthrax, despite the fact that under the terms of the [Convention on the Prohibition of the Development, Production and Stockpiling of Bacteriological (Biological) and Toxin Weapons and on Their Destruction], the parties[,including america,] undertake not to develop, produce, stockpile, or acquire biological agents or toxins "of types and in quantities that have no justification for prophylactic, protective, and other peaceful purposes," as well as weapons and means of delivery.
i can see how you might think otherwise, because In January 1976, all heads of Federal departments and agencies certified to the President that as of December 26, 1975, their respective departments and agencies were in full compliance with the convention.
it appears they have had a change of heart.

THE US biological warfare and biological defense programs (PDF)
 
 
ibis the being
20:48 / 28.07.06
i think that to have the impression of your own country as a nation apart is dangerous, and i wonder how many americans share this self-conception of dragon's.
the american populace is often characterised in the media of other nations as being out of touch and unaware of it's own footprint on the world. the idea that americans arent able to find most countries on a map, let alone tell you what their own nation is doing to them is a common one.

i wonder how true this view of americans is in general, how much the population is blithely unaware of their own nation's history of aggression and intervention.

(clearly other countries are just as bad in lots of ways.
america is just people, and people are bad.
the only difference i see with america is that historical accident has led them to a place where they have a higher capability for destruction than most, and more political room to use it.)


I think you have to understand the history of Americans seeing their (our) nation as a nation apart... I'm not defending that perception at all, but I don't think you can understand it as mere chauvinism and stupidity. (In a similar way, though I find Christian Fundamentalism repugnant, I think it's hard to judge it fairly or accurately without a good understanding of the dogma behind it.) America is a new country but with a very strong narrative and mythology. The Land of Opportunity, the cowboy ethos of individualism and isolation, the American Dream capitalist ideal, the concept of the US as the great superpower of the world... it's hard to convey how much this is imbedded in the American psyche. It's something most of us take a critical look at it, because I think maybe it's a (the?) sustaining myth for us - without it the average American would feel very much at sea. We have joined the global economy but psychologically we are not at all caught up with globalism. Psychologically, as a whole, I think we're still very much caught up in our Cold War image and unwilling to let it go despite all signs that times have changed. Nothing so catatrophic as, say, the fall of the Soviet Union has happened to us to jar us out of our fantasy. For the average American, reality may be too difficult to face. As I listen to the news and the NPR shows about the true state of the nation and the world, I sometimes am gripped by a panicky suffocation - I'm not going to emigrate anytime soon, but I feel so powerless, caught up in a great, crushing machinery that does not answer to me. Our country has the most economic inequality, and the least social mobility, of any civilized nation in the world. We have rampant homophobia and racism built right into the system in which we live. The whole mechanism of government is corrupt to the core, motivated and moved by money, of which we (the average Americans, with our limited social mobility) have none, and therefore we have no voice. I'm hardly surprised Americans believe Saddam had WMDs. Americans still believe "if I work hard enough I can make it big," when the truth is the people at the bottom of the economic ladder have a 7% chance of making it to the top. In such times denial may be the only way to survive, which I know sounds dramatic, but that's the way it feels sometimes even for me.
 
 
Quantum
17:42 / 10.08.06
Gerald Laing criticises US/UK foreign policy with Pop art. This is called The New American Tourist:

 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
16:26 / 11.08.06
Hey, you remember that big thing that happened a while back? Something with planes and buildings? Y'know, the reason there's been two wars in which over three thousand U.S servicemen have died?

Yeah, well apparently a third of Americans don't remember 9/11 happened and half of them don't know the year.
 
 
Chiropteran
16:50 / 11.08.06
From the same article:

Almost all of those who didn't know when 9/11 happened were over 55, with 48% between 55 and 64 and the other 47% being 65 and older.

If this is true, the specificity of the demographic suggests that there is something behind the numbers other than simple "American ignorance."

Also, I couldn't find anything in the article claiming that 1/3 of those polled didn't know it happened at all, as your post suggests. The issue was when, and 95% gave the correct month and day, but only 70% gave the correct year. I followed your link, but are we reading the same article?
 
 
Ticker
17:23 / 11.08.06
Americans still believe "if I work hard enough I can make it big," when the truth is the people at the bottom of the economic ladder have a 7% chance of making it to the top. In such times denial may be the only way to survive, which I know sounds dramatic, but that's the way it feels sometimes even for me.

My father sends me some of the most gut churning propaganda which he believes is an accurate presentation of fact. He believes the root cause of Middle Eastern conflict is not economic in nature or a result of military occupation but because of "Islamic Fundies".

When the outrage over the Muhammad cartoons was at its peak I was feeling the spin from all of the arguements for the Freedom of Speech. Protect Freedom of Speech WOO!

..uh yeah but we don't protect fighting words remember? Right.

The only way to not get pulled into the Us vs. Them world view causing so many of my fellow country people to foam at the mouth is to remember it is a convenient construct which can manifest with your ass suddenly in the place of 'Them' at the drop of a hat.

Othering is a well known tool to manipulate people and set up conflict. Fear is a great way to manipulate people and keeping groups from learning about each other or having compassion, which furthers these divides.

I learned not to Christian bash a long time ago by making myself not think in terms of generalizations. Okay all Fundie Christians are not out to burn my heathen hide so why should I think all Islamic Fundies are either? If an individual or specifc tangible group declares me a problem that is totally different than just letting herd fear color half the world as potential enemies.
 
  
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