Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Switchboard >

Abu Musab al-Zarqawi Killed By US Airstrike

Jake, Colossus of Clout

16:40 / 08.06.06

Here's the story, from CNN.com.

Bush seems very pleased with himself (and butchers the English language as usual), and calls Zarqawi an Al-Qaeda member- Is that true? Will this affect the insurgency?

Side note: CNN has these disturbing links to videos...

(Watch bombing run that killed al-Zarqawi -- 2:00)

(Watch how attacks turned nearby houses to heaps of cinder blocks --3:23)

(Watch how al-Zarqawi murdered his way to the most-wanted list -- 2:50)

Bloodthirsty, much? Jeez.

17:12 / 08.06.06

Zarqawi an Al-Qaeda member- Is that true?

Well, didn't he describe himself as Leader of Al-Qaeda in Iraq. Any reason to doubt it?

Will be interesting to see how this plays out. Nick Berg's father has been incredibly *un*bloodthirsty about it. I assume it will have an impact on the insurgency, but I'm not so sure it will hinder the anti-war movement.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

17:45 / 08.06.06

I'm not so sure it will hinder the anti-war movement.

It really shouldn't, certainly. I don't think many of the anti-war movement would have said he was a nice guy. (I know that's not what you were implying, but I think it's a point worth making).

So... where do we stand? We've got rid of the local head of the organisation that weren't there before we invaded. So one step forward for the several we've taken backward?

17:47 / 08.06.06

The thing that struck me was that the picture used to confirm the deceased's identity to the press was a very tight shot of his face.

It did rather leave me wondering what state his body was in when the troops went in and whether or not someone with a knife or a sword attempted to get a little payback on al-Zarqawi's corpse before it was finally cleaned up and photographed for the press.

17:55 / 08.06.06

I assume it will have an impact on the insurgency

It might have an impact on al-Zarqawi's own particular little cell of insurgents, but the insurgency in Iraq is far larger and wider than that. Al-Zarqawi's band were Sunni and hated pretty much everyone who wasn't also a Sunni. The insurgency in Basra, for example, is Shia-based...

18:03 / 08.06.06

I don't think many of the anti-war movement would have said he was a nice guy. (I know that's not what you were implying, but I think it's a point worth making).

No, indeed. I was thinking more about how it might be a fillip to hawkish elements, and impede the growth of anti-war sentiment in the US. It's good news for Bush, but I doubt he can convert it. I know Jakegnosis thought Bush seemed pleased with himself, but he looked pretty restrained to me (compared with the fall of Baghdad, or capture of Saddam). He's reaping the consequences of crying wolf.

Al-Zarqawi's band were Sunni and hated pretty much everyone who wasn't also a Sunni. The insurgency in Basra, for example, is Shia-based...

Well, that's the thing. If the insurgency becomes less sectarian it could become more focussed and effective in its resistance to the occupation. Or the power vacuum will create a period of uncertainty and instability that the coalition can exploit.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

18:04 / 08.06.06

It did rather leave me wondering what state his body was in when the troops went in and whether or not someone with a knife or a sword attempted to get a little payback on al-Zarqawi's corpse before it was finally cleaned up and photographed for the press.

That occurred to me too. I was trying not to think about it too much. Although there's also the possibility that his body was mashed by the bombs themselves.

18:17 / 08.06.06

I read that they identified him using known scars. I'd say that the body was left nearly untouched until he was identified. After that, it's anybody's guess as to what happened. If they took him back to the base to identify him, I'd be kinda surprised if they sat around putting more holes in the body but the way things are going these days, who knows.

Al-Zarqawi's death will probably render his squad inert, at least for the time being. Unfortunately, this probably won't noticeably slow down the insurgency. Still, it's a moral victory (a very, very small one) and I for one am glad the fucker is dead. I'd prefer to see him rot in prison but having him erased from existence works as well.

Keith, like a scientist

19:35 / 08.06.06

I'm most disturbed that the military is displaying the photo of his corpse in a giant gilded frame... like art for their Axis of Evil 'Sploded Gallery.

Some poor private had to frame that sucker.

19:38 / 08.06.06

I think this may actually end up hurting the Bush Admin's position/spin on the war. Now they've taken out the head of Al Qeda it could become more clearly questionable whether "the insurgency" or "the terrorists" are useful, relevant, or accurate descriptors of who we're fighting in Iraq. The Administration would have had us believe, these last few years, that we were fighting a bunch of terrorists led by the evil Zarquawi, but when his death doesn't stop the fighting - or even lessen it - Americans may finally start asking, en masse, what we're really doing there. I hope.

22:18 / 08.06.06

I agree with Ibis on this one. It seems that the american push to make Zarqawi the source of all problems in Iraq was a way of glossing over the really complicated mess of tribal, religious and political (and criminal) issues in the country. With Zarqawi gone it might just expose this, nolonger us versus the terrorists, but the coalition, versus the police death squads versus the sunni fundamentalists versus the former baathists versus shia insergents versus criminal gangs versus any other political/religious groups that are pissed off and have access to guns.

13:47 / 09.06.06

Apparently, Al Zarqawi survived BOTH airstrikes, at least for a time being. When the Iraqis picked him up, he was still alive. This adds nothing to the conversation other than that he must have been one tough SOB to survive two 500lb. bombs.

14:27 / 09.06.06

I thought I heard something to that effect as the story broke yesterday, but concluded my ears must have been playing tricks. I've not seen any mention of that since - and he's consistantly described as being killed in the bombing.
It does add something to the conversation depending on what sort of state he was in when he was captured, compared to the sort of state he is in now.

19:00 / 09.06.06

Has anyone heard or read anything yet about civilian casualties resulting from the two bombs? I've done a little searching and found nothing either way yet. (It's a bit of an admittedly ghoulish question, and I'm not hoping for any, but I am curious, as usual, about what the administration isn't telling us.)

22:15 / 09.06.06

The official line seems to be that there were only 5 other casualties - his deputy / spiritual advisor, two other unidentified men, a woman and a child.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

22:18 / 09.06.06

They just said on the BBC (only caught a little bit cos I forgot to turn off the radio in the other room) that there was "definitely some movement on the stretcher" before he "died of his wounds". Obviously it's hard to know what to believe, but it sounds plausible.

Jake, Colossus of Clout

20:04 / 13.06.06

Now, this New Yorker article is interesting, indeed.

It posits that Al-Zarqawi's death is a good thing for Al-Qaeda, as his sloppy suicide bombings, general lack of discipline and attacks against Shi'ites were turning many former supporters against the organization.

I buy this. Bin Laden never mounted attacks against other Muslims, no matter the denomination, and Al-Zarqawi attacked Shia Muslims with as much ferocity as he did occupying troops.

What's your take?

12:18 / 14.06.06

I think claiming it as being 'good for Al-Qaeda' is over-egging the pudding a little, particularly since such claims again seem to imply that Al-Qaeda is some kind of unified, centrally controlled entity. This is, as far as we have been able to ascertain, not the case.

It isn't much of a turning point for those who support the Bush administration and its aims in Iraq, it isn't much of a setback to those insurgents that are hostile to these aims either...

And yeah, this anaylisis is hopelessly simplified. There are so many competing agendas in and around Iraq it is viurtually impossible to count them all...

18:20 / 14.06.06

Am sure I heard somewhere (thought it was on here but can't find it now), that the information on al-Zarqawi's whereabouts came from Bid-Laden. If this is the case then his death would seem to help the Al-Qa'ida "cause" in my mind and lead to more focused attacks on US & etc. forces

Anyone else heard the same, or was I just dreaming this?

18:35 / 14.06.06

I think you were probably dreaming this - AFIAK the intelligence on Abu Mussab's whereabouts came from a captured or possibly 'captured' member of his entourage...

18:36 / 14.06.06

I haven't read anything about Bin Laden but there have been statements saying that Zarqaqi was given up by his fellow terrorists. However, it's possible that the Coalition was making this up in an attempt to wage psychological warfare against the insurgents and terrorists. Dividing the ranks and all that jazz.

21:52 / 14.06.06

Zarqawi's tactics of targeting civilians and shia were apparently becoming a problem within Al-Qaeda. I saw a dateline show on this which suggested Bin Laden and co (and the former baathists) were increasingly concerned his methods were alienating their supporters.

This could easily have lead to him being offered to the americans. Too many enemies on his own side of the fence.

22:24 / 14.06.06

That assumes that Bin Laden has a measure of control over what is happening in Iraq. I'm not sure how much influence and direction he's actually providing.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

23:12 / 14.06.06

I haven't read anything about Bin Laden but there have been statements saying that Zarqaqi was given up by his fellow terrorists.

There have indeed, as well as statements that the promised reward for information leading to his capture would be paid. The coalition is, by the sounds of things, now giving shitloads of money to its enemies to spend on weapons. How does that work?

22:14 / 15.06.06

That assumes that Bin Laden has a measure of control over what is happening in Iraq. I'm not sure how much influence and direction he's actually providing.

I don't think Bin Laden's control of Iraq or not matters against the global marketing of jihad that is the core of Al-Qaeda. If Zarqawi's methodology was affecting the popularity of the 'cause' and therefore the lifestyle and cash attached to it then he is a threat. A discredited jihad doesn't receive cash for guns and bombs. A discredited jihad won't attract recruits for matyrdom.

22:56 / 15.06.06

Whether it's true or not is up in the air, but CNN this morning was talking of an 'Al-Qaeda Document' found that details how due to falling recruitment, and loss of weapons and equipment they were going to launch attacks and plant false links to Iran in the hopes of starting a war between the US and Iran....

22:59 / 15.06.06

Ah... Link to the story...

23:16 / 15.06.06

and since the iranians have signed a security agreement with the new iraqi government, making them allies, by going to war with iran the united states would also be going to war with iraq...

thereby starting over, hmm

perhaps we've learned from our misstakes and are attempting a "do over"

and why are we always finding documents in bombed out al quaeda safe houses, read the e-mail and erase it there, mahmoud, or whatever the fuck your name is

18:43 / 16.06.06

That Zarqawi guy sure gets killed a lot. Isn't this latest killing the fourth or fifth time he's been reported dead? Oh well, I'm sure this time he's really dead. After all, this "major victory" came just a few days after the media started covering the Haditha massacre, and there's no way the United States would ever dream of staging something like the death of Zarqawi just so people would forget about that.

It is highly doubtful that Zarqawi's death will have any possitive effects on the war. It is highly doubtful that he was even in any kind of real leadership position, or at least not on the scale that they talked about on the TV news. Zarqawi's legendary status was completely exagerated by the US propaganda machine to make him into another boogeyman like Sadam and bin Laden, because it's easier to get support to go after a supervillain with an evil smile than for a non-specific movement in a war with a very complex history and no clear line in the sand for what's right and what's wrong. Yes, Zarqawi was a very bad guy, but his death is only really significant because he was made into such a prominent character in The Iraq War Movie they're constantly streaming to us back home.

19:14 / 16.06.06

has anyone come accross more detailed reports indicating that a witness(es) claimed
"He was still alive. We put him in the ambulance, but when the Americans arrived they took him out of the ambulance, they beat him on his stomach and wrapped his head with his dishdasha, then they stomped on his stomach and his chest until he died and blood came out of his nose,"

23:49 / 29.06.06

My interest was piqued when I heard it reported, following Zarqawi's demise, that there had been some kind of relationship between Zarqawi and the Baath party, according to documents recovered from the safe house.