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Magical barter

14:40 / 01.06.06

I'm not going to be able to take any trips overseas this year and it would be a great help to me if someone could chuck a few small tokens into either holy wells or any naturally occurring lake/river for me. Ireland would be ideal but Scotland, Wales, Cornwall, or Britain will do just fine. I can mail you the items which are not likely to alarm the postal service nor pollute the environment. All of the objects are benign... just don't suck on them.

14:56 / 01.06.06

I think many of the London lithers could do the Thames fairly easily (be happy to do this for you). But its a bit of a dirty soup. Lets see if you get someone better placed.

20:36 / 01.06.06

I know not of any true Holy places, but there's lots of good natural stuff going on around...

I'm a couple of hours drive from the Lake District, and would be happy to have a good excuse to go visit. It has Lake Windermere which is Britain's largest lake.

I'm also pretty close to Rudyard Lake, for which Rudyard Kipling was named.

All very nice places, but I don't know if they have any special significance.

I live close to Alderley edge which has a lot of legends (merlin, laylines and such) connected to it. It attracts a lot of attention around solstice times and is a generally lovely location. It has a few caves and streams I could drop something in.

Three Shires Head is a point on a river where three 'shire counties meet (Chesire, Derbyshire and Staffordshire). It has various waterfalls and naturally occuring pools. It has a bit of a history of outlaws in thee olde past coming here to easily skip the boarder and escape The Law. Not too sure how true these stories are, but the place might at least be good if you want a bit of that good old 'boundary crossing' funk.

There's also a lot of lovely streams and rivers around the countryside of my hometown which have nice significance to me, but I don't know of any places with 'proper' significance.

Hope that helps...

20:49 / 01.06.06

I just had a bit of a google, and it turns out that Alderley Edge does have a Holy well.

This site has a bit of info on the legend of Alderley Edge and This site has a picture of it, along with other holy wells. There's more info on the Alderley Edge well here.

23:49 / 01.06.06

oooh! Spiffy!
That'll do nicely if it isn't too much of a hassle for ya?
Thank ya kindly!

00:51 / 02.06.06

No worries. It's pretty local and a nice day out at that.
I've PMed you with info.

08:23 / 02.06.06

It sounds like you've already been sorted out, but for what it's worth I live within easy walking distance of the river Severn in central England and I'd be happy to chuck some magical items in there for you.

10:04 / 02.06.06

Would it not be an infinitely stronger act of magic to give these items to a local river that you have spent time developing a deep, meaningful personal connection with - rather than posting them to a total stranger in a different country and getting them to chuck them into a river you do not know, have not even visited and probably never will?

The various magical spots of the British Isles only became magical because of people working at them magically over a period of time and getting to know the local spirits, so I think it's always better to do things at your own local rivers and lakes in the land where you live, rather than buying into a dubious fetishisation of somewhere else. Cos that's what it's all about. Working with the land itself. Where you are right now.

Sure, if you have relationships with deities who originate from the UK: make the pilgrimage, spend a bit of time at a relevant power spot, build a relationship with what you find there, ask permission to leave your items, do the magic that needs to be done. But to just post stuff to be dropped off in some random place in the British Isles is really rubbish cop-out magic in my book and not even worth doing. I'm not being funny, but I just can't see any way in which you would not get far more rewarding results from addressing the Powers you work with at a local body of water that you have a meaningful connection with, rather than doing it this way. It would be like me posting some stuff to be randomly deposited somewhere in Haiti by a stranger, and completely ignoring all of the magic on my doorstep.

13:39 / 05.06.06

I understand your point Gypsy Lantern but I have been working very closely with Deities in the Celtic Countries for sometime. To me They are bound to the land in a way that makes sense to send Them offerings. I am looking to strengthen my ties with them and while I normally do this through pilgrimage, I cannot this year physically travel.

The nature of the Land in any one place tends to be dramatically different. The act of sending gifts, which requires effort, does create a different reaction.

Personally I do not believe it is respectful nor appropriate to re-consecrate a local river/spring as they have Their own associations. I do offer sacrifice to my local river and ocean spirits as they stand. I consider my relationship to my local sites to be on good terms but that does not negate my relationship with my distant connections.

I do believe if you were to send items to Haiti care of a stranger you would garner certain benefits that perhaps would not be obtainable by making the offering locally. In my system, effort extended and the use of imagination in following the ritual item as it is a stand in for you as a Pilgrim by proxy, does improve the communication with the Gods.

13:55 / 05.06.06

Fair enough. If it works for you, then that's your business. I would never contemplate working that way myself personally. My rule is: Either operate at a place that you have a living connection with or don't do it at all. If you can't afford to travel and do your magic personally, then wait until you can. I could understand where you are coming from more if you were asking for something dropped off at a specific location that you have magical ties to - but the non-specific nature of wanting this stuff left anywhere at all in 'ye olde celtic lands' strikes me as a bit problematic. I guess the bit about "Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Cornwall or Britain" set my teeth on edge slightly as well...

15:23 / 05.06.06

The concern over appropriation is understandable. It may seem disrespectful to you that in my cosmology an item which is dropped into a body of water in Scotland has a different magical impact than if it is dropped here in New Hampshire, but still similar to say being dropped into a body of water in Cornwall.

I remember a friend of mine who is native Irish sending me an article about people in Dublin being pissed about Americans and other folks going to Tara for pagan celebrations. The writer called into question the validity of these traditions that selectively held the ancient history of Ireland in such high regard but ignored the modern life of the island including some of the very ugly urban issues.

In my mind what I am doing is this:

1. Asking a stranger on here to receive a proxy item and take it to a nearby or accessible sacred precinct. For me this is an act of good will and trust which increases the potency of the object.

2. Having the proxy travel the liminal line between land/known water/unknown as it is dropped.

3. Having the proxy be received by as an offering by the local Deity. Hopefully They will be able to pass my message bound to the item on. In this sense I'm asking the a similar favor of the local Deity as I am of the human who is receiving the package.

If all goes well, I have used a new ritual to strengthen my sense of connection with the humans living *now* in the sacred area, offered a gift of appreciation to a previously unknown Guardian/God, and hopefully gotten Them to pass a message to one of Their relatives/neighbors.

Now while I can and do make offerings to my Gods here and believe I am heard and communicated with, this is a new approach I'm trying to use. It is my hope that it will affect my perception of temporal distance (by use of the proxy) and increase my connection. I have used similar rituals with making offerings here in the hopes of having the local Deities/spirits speak with my Gods and am trying a variation. Though to be honest the local Folks do not really seem to be in the habit of speaking with other pantheons.

I appreciate your input on this as it is a work in progress.

15:43 / 05.06.06

I have a very intense relationship with Gods connected to a very specific geographical area but belonging to a pantheon that includes a larger area. What I am trying to do is use the regularly accessible postal service and the damionic postal service to transmit a message for me.

I probably should add that while I am asking for aid in transporting a known magical item to a farther magical location, at the same time I am sending a non-magic worker who lives next my sacred site a postcard with the same message.

While I understand that some people would wait until they could make a physical pilgrimage to the location, I am experimenting with proxy work.

Just as my relationships with people here in New Hampshire are not the same as my relationships with people in other parts of the world, so to my religious and magical relationships. Sometimes people, places, and Gods are unique and using the telephone and mailing gifts when you can't travel does make a difference in letting Them know you care.

Kiltartan Cross

09:03 / 15.06.06

I could use an excuse to visit Carterhaugh or the Hermitage again, both of which have strong magical associations (I'm fairly sure the Hermitage well is accessible, and there's one somewhere near Carterhaugh; regardless, there's plenty of water around both). Message me if ya still want stuff dropped.