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The Liberal Media

 
 
lekvar
22:01 / 30.05.06
This thread seems in danger of permanent derailment due to the specter of The Liberal Media. Not only do I think that the other thread is getting corrupted, I think that the notion merits separate discussion on it's own merits.

So. Here we are.

On the obviously-Conservative side of the Media, we have Fox News and The Washington Times.

In the center (I believe), we have CNN (though there is some debate as to where CNN actually sits on the political spectrum at any given time).

Representing the left, well, I have a huge blind spot here, and feel unqualified to comment. So, I'll use a link provided by another poster:
The San Francisco Chronicle.
Also, Air America.

Now, I'd personally argue that websites and PACs and thinktanks are not part of "The Media" since they are specifically created to push an agenda, and, if they inform at all, they inform within set boundaries.

I acknowledge that this post has strted of U.S.-centric. Please help to round out the list from all perspectives, and provide insight.
 
 
Korso Jerusalem
22:13 / 30.05.06
Well, since news is reported by human beings, bias would seem to be unavoidable. What's most important is to be aware of the existence of bias and to read the news accordingly.
 
 
lekvar
22:21 / 30.05.06
To expand a bit: Yes, the San Francisco Chronicle is a liberal paper. It reflects the overwhelminly liberal demographic it serves.

Air America is also unquestionably liberal, as it was created to counter conservative talkshows like Rush Limbaugh's.

The Washington Times is considered to be a conservative paper, with links to the Unification Church.

I can't be fair or balanced about Fox News. I leave the reader to form their own oppinion.
 
 
Korso Jerusalem
22:24 / 30.05.06
Fox seems to waste no time fawning over the administration, and its line up of pundits is very telling in itself.

What other station would actually take Ann Coulter seriously?
 
 
lekvar
22:32 / 30.05.06
Phallicus, nobody doubts that. What people like me have a hard time swallowing is the notion that there's an organized Liberal Media Conspiracy out to make our national leaders look bad. Yes, there's Z Magazine, Mother Jones, Utne Reader, but there's a corresponding conservative rag for each of those. I feel that people get uncomfortable when a news organization reports the fact that some politician is an idiot and blame bias. Is CNN biased if it reports that Bush won't allow the coffins of dead soliers to be photographed? No. It's a fact. Is it the news media's fault that politicians are stooges and get caught with their hand in the cookie jar? No. I'm not going to say that the New York Times has a bias just because the're reporting about a Democrat getting busted in a corruption sting. But my perception is that this is exactly what conservatives do - yell loud enough until their message becomes "common sense" - the Liberal Media is out to get them.

It rather reminds me of Political Correctness Gone Mad! syndrome.
 
 
Korso Jerusalem
22:40 / 30.05.06
Hah. The "liberal conspiracy" is an excuse that the conservatives use to escape responsible journalism. Only a fool would subscribe to that.
I only mentioned in the other thread that the social bias keeps news organization from reporting on issues such as affirmative action in the workplace.
 
 
lekvar
22:51 / 30.05.06
But that would only apply to the liberal press, wouldn't it? I would imagine that conservative media and centrist media would be more than a little inclined to cover any concrete examples of Affermative Action being detremental, especially any cases where there were concrete fact to back up the assertions. Even NPR had to admit when the Welfare Reform of the late 90's failed to result in genocide.
 
 
Korso Jerusalem
22:53 / 30.05.06
Exactly. Right on.
All media will favor some stories and shun others, and we all need to remember that.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
01:01 / 31.05.06
I only mentioned in the other thread that the social bias keeps news organization from reporting on issues such as affirmative action in the workplace.

Leaving it down to those brave, brave far right pressure groups, which inexplicably can be trusted implicitly as long as they are saying something that one wants to believe. And the dance starts again.

The owner of Fox News, News Corporation, also owns a large number of other news and media outlets - list here - and generally carries the editorial bias of its owner. The problem with the US, of course, is that as has been noted the left-of-centre political positions seem quite right-wing to a European audience - for example, is there a mainstream US media source calling for the impeachment of the president, or keeping track of Iraqi casualties in Iraq?

Of the major newspapers, the New York Times and the Washington Post claim to be politically neutral, the Wall Street Journal is socially conservative in its editorial pages. The LA Times is still living down the incubator hoax, and is perhaps politically confused more than anything else.

The major TV news networks apart from Fox? CNN, MSNBC? We'd probably view them as small-c conservative, but I haven't seen a lot of them lately. Thoughts?

There's also numbers - more Americans identify Fox News as their trusted news source than any other network, which means that it has a disproportionate effect in any considerations of biased news reaching the American people.
 
 
alas
03:27 / 31.05.06
Here's what I said in the "Seriously, America,...." thread about the overall slant of the media, and i still stand by it:

The media is primarily funded by commercials in the US (along with other factors specific to the US context) that means that truly leftist messages--e.g., messages that propose something other than a consumer-based economic system; that challenge the distribution of wealth; that take on the fact that while profits of the economy have been privatized, costs have been largely socialized, made invisible, and often disproprotionately inflicted on impoverished communities (e.g., locating dumps near slums)--those kinds of messages have almost no chance of being aired, in the first place, and, when they are, they are almost impossible to truly "hear."

I.e., there's a distinctively right-ward slant to the US media that is at least in part due to the way it is entirely funded. That is, when every page of newsprint has to have a dozen ads on it, everyonline page has a corporate banner across the top, every news story is framed by commercial breaks....is it even possible for anything other than a free-market message, individualist message to be conveyed? Frankly, I don't think so.

It's set up to overwhelmingly and repeatedly send the message: "You, dear American consumer, and your needs/fears/dreams are the center of the universe. Buying products and services is the way to fulfill those needs, resolve your fears, and achieve your dreams. It's all about You, personally. Making choices between products IS freedom, power. Freedom is, in fact, nothing more than the ability to make choices between products. Being 'smart' means doing research on the things you're buying so you get the best deal. You are a consumer, first and foremost (not a citizen)."

We are defined, and come to define ourselves as consumers, even by our news sources. Everything else recedes--citizenship and the obligation to care about the political life of the country, collective action becomes a kind of joke. Who has time for politics when there's so much to buy, so many "empowering" decisions to make about which laundry detergent to choose, which Medicaid plan to enroll in? Politics becomes increasingly a spectator sport; choosing a political party akin to being a fan of professional football team. Watching the news is but one of many entertainment options, with no political implications.

And it's pretty hard NOT to wind up kind of thinking: the news of the world must be entertaining, and leave me* feeling good about myself, or I'm going to just watch the O.C. (*& some "me"s are more important than others: i.e., the ones with buying power.)

Even one, major non-commercial news source can make a difference, can create some resistance. We don't really have one in this country--NPR and PBC are increasingly funded by major commercial donors.

Phallicus, in the Duke thread, you said that a liberal bias in US media was indisputable, i.e., You can't deny a liberal bias in the news, though. I think that's because we swim in this capitalistic framework, one with a very very narrow band of what's allowed as a "common sense" political stance.

So, to answer Haus's questions: no, no paper in the US is calling for Bush's impeachment. (The only source I can think of that has is the Nation magazine, and that's just a weekly newsmag with a relatively small circulation but they get some excellent contributors--e.g., Gary Younge's been writing for them recently, Patricia Williams, Katha Pollitt). No major source keeping track of Iraqi casualties. No major newsource regularly presenting any genuine and thoughtful pacifist or anti-capitalism arguments.

Or think about it: every night on the evening news, in every single channel (TV and radio, NPR/PBS included) we are given a summary of the action on Wall Street. What if, instead, every single newsreport ended with a poverty report. How many people died that day in the world of various diseases, where did they occur, how many of those were likely preventable. How many were largely due to starvation, how many due to war... What diference would it make?

Would that ever happen? I don't think it could ever happen in our current set up--and not just for "reasonable" reasons ("statistics would just reduce those people to numbers" etc.). Flatly: on the whole, we don't value most human lives as much as we value profits, and the daily stock market reports to me speak that pretty clearly, when there's so much that we don't count every day. And that, finally, is the socially conservative, right wing value system that we're swimming in.

On the run-up to the war, I listened to NPR and the BBC virtually every night. In my memory (and this is, I realize, difficult to support at this point), it was astounding how when a protest was covered by NPR--which many conservatives would very quickly lable as having a liberal bias--we would hear people shouting, a reporter would read off what some of the signs said, and then they'd turn to an administration official or supporter who would make the pro-war argument. They might occasionally end back at the protest, might even end on a relatively neutral or even sympathetic note at times, but in virtually NO cases did they actually interview any protestors at anything comparable to the length they were giving the admistration's representatives. When they did interview them, they'd ask more and much more skeptical questions than they were putting to the administration officials. (My spouse noted that it was quite possible that the only way Bush's political representatives would agree to be interviewed was if they could control the number and nature of the questions being asked. But if that was the case, they should have said that, and normally they did not.)

This was in deep contrast to BBC reports which always asked hard questions of both sides, AND let both sides talk at some length. To me, this amounted to a pretty clear conservative bias to the NPR reporting.

In general, the US media is passive and non-confrontational in the face of power. I DO believe they know where their bread is buttered, and they don't bite the dogs that feed them, that wag through them--particularly if the "ratings" of the officeholder are high or if it wouldn't be very "feel good" for the average listener/reader/viewer who might then not show up the next night, because there are so many other "entertainment" options available, against which news already has a hard time competing.

This is driven by a focus on short-term profits, i.e., the logic of the market, and it is having a deadly effect on democracy in the US, and more literally it is costing lives around the world. It is ultimately hegemonic in its effect, conservative of the status quo, and by virtually no reasonable definition "left" in its bias, fraught as such terms are.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
06:41 / 31.05.06
Phallicus Hah. The "liberal conspiracy" is an excuse that the conservatives use to escape responsible journalism. Only a fool would subscribe to that.

Presumably the wise man would refer to it as a liberal bias instead. Aaaaand we're back to the start again.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
06:51 / 31.05.06
I heart alas.

What about talk radio? In the UK it's near impossible to guage the effect of what we can't hear and only hear about when something newsworthy happens (I understand Rush has thrown off the shackles of his painkiller addiction and is now back to attacking people for poor choices and liberalism?).
 
 
■
07:45 / 31.05.06
One of the big problems with alleging a centrist or left-wing bias (which is what I think the liberal in the thread title really means) is that all major news media rely on the capitalist models of distribution and production. To set up a newspaper or TV station requires an enormous injection of funding which only large corporations or wealthy individuals can afford. To continue to function they also need the support of corporations in the form of advertising revenue. So, even if through some miracle you manage to get a benevolent left-wing tycoon (not many of those around), or some other form of capital injection to get the presses rolling, you are still beholden to the whims of advertisers and must tread a very careful path editorially, avoiding criticism of corporations, their owners and shareholders, or public bodies with advertising budgets) or your cashflow will be b0rked. The money you get from the public on the cover price of a newspaper is miniscule compared to advertising revenues.
The only sections of the media which do not have this tendency to supporting the status quo (read conservatism) are those who: like the BBC and PBS, use subscriber models (and they are generally heavily regulated); have another model of ownership (the only one I can think of is The Guardian with its trustees); or partisan publications with a relatively high cover price so that subscribers pay the full costs of production.
While I am loath to throw such terms as hegemony around, the dominant ideology in almost all media is necessarily at least centrist-conservative, but is usually well to the right. In order for a station or paper to display liberal bias would take an enormous and sustained effort from all involved.
What may be confusing you is that within these bastions of conservatism the majority of journalists are liberal or left-wing (yes, even in the Murdoch empire) and usually must work to further an idology they don't really believe in. This is one reason why "liberal" or left-wing stories sometimes get such prominence and the overwhelming mass of conservative ones just trundle on day after day reinforcing the status quo: they care about the "liberal" ones more and so do them better on the rare occasions they get a chance to work on them.
So, there IS a liberal bias in the media but only in the sense that the pople who work in it are intelligent and thoughtful people who aren't in it for the money and aren't working for big business or politicians, and are so more likely to be left-wing or liberal. The transmitted media itself, though - the news that is mediated - is overwhelmingly conservative and will probably always be so.
 
 
illmatic
09:26 / 31.05.06
Can anyone find a quick summary of Chomsky's position on this? I think Phallicus might find it interesting reading.

Hoepfully not veering to far off-topic - feature films still counts as media after all- but I saw Ken Loach's film Hidden Agenda last week - I'm kind of warming up for Palme D'Or winner The Wind That Shakes The Barley. Hidden Agenda is a drama revolving around the assasination of American civil rights campaigner by the British security forces in Northern Ireland. It weaves toghether the stories of Colin Wallace, the Stalker affair and some of the M15-Wilson smear stuff. Material that is customarily is dismissed as "conspiracy theory". The bigget question I was asking myself after watching it was "How on Earth did that film get made"? It has a message that is so alien to what we're used to hearing, so left of centre, so against the standard stories we hear about the activites of power in our society, that it throws the rest of our media into bold relief. There are certain stories that aren't told, or that we just don't hear. Possibly this is changing in an era of internet news, but possibly not.

Interestingly enough, I picked up The Independent yesterday to read about Loach's triumph, and it contained a rather predictable smear piece by Dominic Lawson, making much of Loach's links to the SWP, and his criticisms of the British Empire. It even contained the "how dare he criticise the Empire/we'd all be talking German now!" defense. There are certain bias, certain things one cannot say even in the the "liberal media".

Obviously, I'm not calling for uncritical acceptance of everything Loach says - I find him a bit polemical myself. I just find it fascinating how he exposes the limits of discourse.
 
 
Lurid Archive
11:03 / 31.05.06
Can anyone find a quick summary of Chomsky's position on this? I think Phallicus might find it interesting reading.

I've said it before, but I think Manufacturing Consent by Chomsky and Herman is the best book I've read on this. It says similar things to posters above, in the Propoganda model which is a model with four main filters, the ownership of the media by business, the need for commercial advertising, sourcing and flak. (The final filter of anti-communism is obsolete by now, though has possibly been replaced by pro-market, pro-capitalism rhetoric).

Really, I'm not sure you can get a short answer, since any such answer can be opposed by simple disbelief, which is why the book is worth reading since it does detailed (and really rather boringly detailed, I suppose, but thats sort of the point) case studies and tends to find that the propoganda model works pretty well.

I think, maybe, there is a distinction to be made between social and economic issues, broadly. That is, I think a case can be made that the media is generally against overt racism, sexism and homophobia, for instance. And I suppose that comparison with the religious right in the US might make that seem like a "liberal" stance. I guess one could make a case there....but it is an extremely odd way of looking at things.
 
 
illmatic
11:32 / 31.05.06
Cheers for the extract, Lurid. Useful for me also, as I haven't read that book. IIRC another filter Chomsky talks about is the value systems of journalists and those who have access to sources of news dissemenation. Simply put (hugely dumbed down), these people are a lot more likely to have a vested interest in the values of the staus quo, being highly successful products of our social/educational/economic systems.

I think the Dominic Lawson example above proves this point rather well. He's the son of a former Tory Chancellor of the Exchequer, former editor of both The Spectator and The Telegraph, has alleged MI5 links (which he's denied, I might add) - and yet, it seemed to me very unsuprising, almost "natural" to read his views. ... yet think how strange it would be to read those of a Irish Republican in his place.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
11:48 / 31.05.06
That is, I think a case can be made that the media is generally against overt racism, sexism and homophobia, for instance.

What? You're kidding, surely? How can you talk about 'the media' -- indeed, how can anyone in this thread -- talk about 'the media' as if it's a monolithic entity (no offence, ie) that can be said to occupy any generalised political position? To back up that statement, Lurid, you'd only need to supply some moments where, say, the Graudian was being implicitly racist/homophobic but not overtly, and then I'd trump you with Fox News, and you'd give me back some BBC, and so on and so on.

The problem with Chomsky is that he doesn't really engage with how ideology works. Which is to say, pretty much everyone knows a folk theory of Chomsky. Everyone knows the 'media' lies. Everyone knows the big TV stations are giant corporations supported by other corporations that just want to multiply their profits, just as everyone knows that politicians don't tell the truth either. But why does everyone keep watching it, and why do people still make judgments on the basis of what they read/view, when we know that what gets reported is probably only a tenth of the information we'd need to make solid judgments about any event?

Which leads me to my next point -- separating economic and social issues is exactly what shouldn't happen in media analysis. If you're going to look at economics, you should be looking at how it relates to the affective dimensions of 'news': how it makes people feel, what emotional responses it 'calls' for and how it supplements and helps people identify, feel good about themselves, how it makes people want or need to know about things in a particular way etc. That process is always both 'cultural' and 'economic', at the same time. It also works in a way that oversteps the boundaries designated by 'left/right'. Socially progressive media such as the Guardian are still selling a type of social capital, based on what they think their readers want, and what they desire. It's just branded differently to CNN or FoxNews, is all.
 
 
Lurid Archive
11:48 / 31.05.06
Have a couple more links then, Wikipedia and Herman's reflections in 2003. As I recall, the value systems of individuals is implicit, rather than explicit in the model. The analogy usually used is a multinational like GM - the propoganda model asserts something analogous to the claim that successful people in GM value and pursue profit...which is totally obvious, of course, and easily allows the possibility that individials act freely, in ways they think is right without any conspiracy, yet still ideologically narrow.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
12:02 / 31.05.06
value systems of journalists and those who have access to sources of news dissemenation.

Yeah, but how does that explain the fact that most journalists in supposedly 'centrist' publications and broadcasters probably disapprove of what they end up publishing/broadcasting because it's way too simplistic, but don't change jobs, leave or start their own publications? Journalism is a cynical industry: part of the cynicism is that the people voicing the stories don't necessarily believe themselves. So why do they keep doing it?

(I can never resist an opportunity to tear Chomsky to shreds. He's the worst excuse for an anarchist pin-up in the history of anarchist pin-ups. Partially because he's such a structuralist. Everything is systems theory with Chomsky: people don't work as systems, they're chaotic and contradictory. But this is threadrotting, and I shall desist if people would prefer it.)
 
 
Lurid Archive
12:14 / 31.05.06
What? You're kidding, surely? How can you talk about 'the media' -- indeed, how can anyone in this thread -- talk about 'the media' as if it's a monolithic entity (no offence, ie) that can be said to occupy any generalised political position?

Yeah, you are right to pick me up on that and I knew I'd have to justify it a little more...here goes. I'm making a really rather weak claim here, in that I'm trying to refer to a particularly crude and explicit kind of prejudice that isn't really acceptable anymore and which, I think, media outlets generally reject. (If you really want to object to any generalisation of the media, then I'm not sure that you can coherently talk about ideology with respect to the media either. If you can't talk about tendencies in the media, then you can't talk about what people watch/read either...this resistance to generalisation has to be even handed, or it becomes silly.)

Anyway, back to it, I'd say that most media would be fairly hostile to holocaust deniers and white supremacists, say. Now, while I might agree that this is a base line of decency, I think it also constitutes a political stance. One can trace a broad political advancement in terms of issues of race, say, from 50 years ago which includes the media, but which I don't think the media have generally mounted great resistance to. Of course, I'm not saying very much, but like I said above you really have to compare to the religious right or some movement like that to get a good sense of liberal media values.

The problem with Chomsky is that he doesn't really engage with how ideology works.

I think this is true in Manufacturing Consent - but thats not the point of the book which is, as you say, actually a rather lengthy statement of the obvious but which nonetheless gets dismissed as conspiracy theory. More broadly, I disagree with you, but we probably have different ideas of what constitutes engagement.

Which leads me to my next point -- separating economic and social issues is exactly what shouldn't happen in media analysis. .....

That process is always both 'cultural' and 'economic', at the same time. It also works in a way that oversteps the boundaries designated by 'left/right'. Socially progressive media such as the Guardian are still selling a type of social capital, based on what they think their readers want, and what they desire. It's just branded differently to CNN or FoxNews, is all.


You see I think that your second point here is rather dependent on an acceptance of your first point. If you are ready to separate economic and social issues, the fact that the Guardian is actually part of the establishment becomes rather obvious, and there isn't any surprise in seeing it as part of the same world as FoxNews. The advertising filter, for instance, encodes this pretty explicitly.
 
 
illmatic
12:26 / 31.05.06
Well, I would defintely find your criticisms of Chomsky interesting - but perhaps another thread? Pretty much all the critques I've read of him have seemed more like smears, than considered critques.

how does that explain the fact that most journalists in supposedly 'centrist' publications and broadcasters probably disapprove of what they end up publishing/broadcasting

Wouldn't a simple answer be "the paycheque"? But that's a bit crap really so for starters, what/why makes you sure they disapprove? In the example I give above, I'm pretty sure Dominic Lawson's opinions were an honest statement of his views. Most "opinion piece" journalism seems to me to be fairly representative of it's authors views to me, though I'm not as sure about the average news story. The way I'm reading Chomsky to support me here in saying that are certain arguments/points of view that, though valid/of interest, never get an airing - strongly pro-IRA views in the mainsteam British media, for instance.

I acknowedge that I haven't read Manufacturing Consent so I probably have a dumbed down grasp of his views though.
 
 
grant
15:53 / 31.05.06
Haus: There's also numbers - more Americans identify Fox News as their trusted news source than any other network,

...and...

Mister Disco: How can you talk about 'the media' -- indeed, how can anyone in this thread -- talk about 'the media' as if it's a monolithic entity (no offence, ie) that can be said to occupy any generalised political position?

I'm not sure, but I was under the impression that the most-trusted news source wasn't Fox -- it was actually Comedy Central. Lemme see...

Hmm. There's this: Carnegie Reporter determines traditional news media becoming irrelevant, actually. Ah, but that's all 18-to-34-year-olds. It's all internet portals and local TV stations with the kids. Does mention an earlier, election-year survey about Jon Stewart, though: In that same study, Jon Stewart, host of The Daily Show on the Comedy Central network was identified as the most trusted of the TV anchors among the group that chose the Internet as their top news source, while among the entire group, Stewart tied with then-NBC anchor Tom Brokaw and came in ahead of ABC's Peter Jennings and former CBS anchor Dan Rather when asked about who they “trust the most” to provide “information about politics and politicians.”

So, not the network, but the face.

I did find this more-current Reuters report on a Reuters/BBC survey that found Fox was the most-trusted news source in America, with 11 percent (!!!) of Americans going for it, but also said CNN was the most-trusted internationally, along with the BBC. I don't know what this says about their methodology (did they even ask about Comedy Central?).

The lead to that story, incidentally, was: One-quarter of consumers abandoned a news source over the past year because they lost trust in its reporting, according to a new survey that also found the BBC, Fox News and Al Jazeera the most trusted brands in their respective home regions.

This 2004 Rolling Stone article on Jon Stewart mentions this thing, which I suppose is more about branding & personality:
Indeed, Bill O'Reilly recently invited Stewart onto The O'Reilly Factor and ripped Stewart's "dopey show" for the power it confers on "stoned slackers" to swing the election to Kerry. But a new Annenberg Center study might startle O'Reilly. "Viewers of late-night comedy programs, especially The Daily Show with Jon Stewart on Comedy Central, are more likely to know the issue positions and backgrounds of presidential candidates than people who do not watch late-night comedy," the survey of more than 19,000 adults concluded. Thus can Stewart now cite objective data to prove that he, like Walter Cronkite before him, deserves to be known as the most trusted name in TV news.

Stewart's wikipedia entry does mention that he got two Peabodys (the high-profile journalism award Bill O'Reilly lied about receiving).

------

Unrelated to that, I always find it humorous when NPR is held up as an example of liberal media, since most of its funding (still) comes from the government. And, like, Archer Daniels Midland -- "ADM -- Unlocking the Potential of Nature with Copyrighted Genetically Modified Corn Pollen Drifting Onto Other People's Crops and Lots of Other Pollution, Too." (tm)
 
 
unheimlich manoeuvre
14:25 / 02.06.06
Bit of a half-formed rambling post but...

This thread makes me think of www.medialens.org and their book Guardians of Power. (Being particularly helpful I can be relied upon to have NOT read the book.)

How do I engage with the media? Is it to be informed or to reinforce my beliefs? Can I happily sit and mock Sky (Fox) News or do I run the danger of regurgitating received opinion?

Is there an US equivalent of Britain's Private Eye were reporters leak stories they can't print?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:52 / 07.06.06
That is, I think a case can be made that the media is generally against overt racism, sexism and homophobia, for instance.

I know Lurid has admitted this was something of a nonsense claim, but I think it bears pointing out for anyone who might still be labouring under this illusion that the BBC is perfectly happy to allow racism, sexism and homophobia on its flagship breakfast radio show, and will defend its perpetrator from criticism.
 
 
Lurid Archive
11:39 / 07.06.06
I don't think it was a *completely* nonsense claim. OK, I agree that using "gay" as a synonym for "rubbish" is actually homophobic, even overtly so. But I was trying to distinguish between different levels of homophobia, and there is a risk in not differentiating between different levels, that you can't recognise progress. Part of what I intended was that the BBC does not take the line that homosexuality is wrong and that it is therefore ok to throw abuse at gay people. In fact, if you look at the complaints report here, there is a clear indication that the BBC complaints commission does not think that homophobia is acceptable, just that using "gay" in this way does not constitute homophobia. (There is, I think, a somewhat non-trival discussion about how to respond to certain contemporary usage of the word "gay".) Of course, one might argue that the same is true for any apologist for bigotry - "I'm not homophobic, but..." - but given statements like,

[The complaints committee] did, however, feel that it would be advisable to think more carefully about using the word "gay" in its deregatory sense in the future, given the multiple meanings of the word in modern usage and the potential to cause unintended offence.

don't come across as uncomplicated homophobia, especially when one also compares the ruling on The Game's comments, given in the same section. I get the sense - feel free to tell me I'm mistaken - that the argument that homophobia is wrong has actually been won in the BBC at least, and what we are seeing is an argument over what constitutes homophobia. Now, while I agree that this means there is still much left to do (and that separating the issues of homophobia and recognising homophobia isn't really that simple), I think it does contribute to what some might call liberal media bias.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:57 / 07.06.06
Brilliant. Any rationalisations to offer for the sexism and racism Moyles employs and which the BBC tolerates, defends, and through continuing to employ him, promotes? Are they part of the liberal media bias too?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:01 / 07.06.06
Also - come on, Lurid - yes, "some might call" it liberal bias, but are you in agreement with them, or do you think they are wrong? Or are we back to the hypothetical "reasonable right-winger" so often invoked?
 
 
Lurid Archive
12:36 / 07.06.06
I think the BBC decision was wrong, and accusations of liberal bias are also wrong...but I think that with liberal media bias, it is worthwhile understanding what is being said. Again, I may be mistaken, but what I think is being said is that we have moved, or at least are moving, toward a model where homophobia is seen as unacceptable. It is this - what we might call a bare level of decency - that causes the fuss.

I think the BBCs attitude in this case is to be criticised strongly, without doubt, but in the broader debate about the trend I think that viewing the BBC as homophobic today as it was 50 years ago, say, is just too crude a way of looking at things. I *agree* that they are being homophobic, but I'm also saying that there are different levels at which homophobia operates. And it is precisely this sort of trend which I think that the concept of "liberal bias" refers to. The BBCs effort to distance themselves from homophobia has content, is what I'm saying.

But, yeah, I believe in the reasonable right winger - they can be wrong without being evil - and I believe that well intentioned people can be homophobic. Don't you?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:41 / 07.06.06
As an empiricist, Lurid, I'm surprised you believe in the reasonable right-winger: not a single shred of evidence exists to substantiate his or her existence, yet you still cling to the idea that he's out there.

I'm not sure the term "well-intentioned" is useful here without further definition.
 
 
Lurid Archive
12:59 / 07.06.06
But as a left winger, how do you explain popular right wing movements? Surely not everyone who voted for Thatcher (or Bush) was a raving lunatic? And it is surely to make people vote against their interests, and for obviously morally correct positions, that so much energy is devoted to propoganda. "Right winger" here can't *only* mean a journalist or other elite.

Seriously, Flyboy, you must meet people every day who are well to the right of you. Do you not engage them as equals, misguided though they may be? They don't *all* turn out to be monsters, do they?

To bring this back on topic, I think that one interesting question is how the idea of liberal bias gains such popular currency, and is found to be induspitable by so many (in the US, mostly, I think).
 
 
Quantum
08:36 / 08.06.06
I'm amazed every day by this. Liberal bias? Where? I especially can't believe anybody in the US believes it, every thread I've looked at or source I've read indicates there's a massive absence of liberal views in the States, never mind media.
I'm sure I'm flogging a dead donkey but when rendition, electoral fraud and unprovoked war don't stimulate criticism of an administration that definitely indicates a bias in the media. But not a liberal bias.

How is it a plausible position?
 
 
Professor Silly
20:30 / 08.06.06
Others have already mentioned above that every media source has some bias, and I wholeheartedly agree. For every "National Review" there's a "Nation." Even here in the Denver area we have two papers: Rocky Mountain News and the Denver Post. These local papers aren't as right and left wing respectively as the two sources above, but it's all relative, no?

Very interesting that we seem to be coming to the conclusion that Capitalism necessitates conservative media when compared with Socialist countries. Even when the reporters have a liberal bias (which I'd rather call "balanced education") the editors do not and instead tend toward conservatism (which I prefer to call capital selfishness).

But here's something I find more interesting: how is the internet changing the face of reporting news and the way the public responds to that news? Because it's so cheap (relatively speaking) to communicate information electronically over the web, we now have access to all the various points-of-view and obsessions for every conceivable stance. Bringing us to real-world examples, it was mentioned above that the print media has a bias against white supremicy...none-the-less I'm sure we can find all sorts of websites advocating such hatred. Then there's Wikipedia, which recent studies suggest has as much accuracy as the Encyclopedia Britannica; here information is altered by everyone, which (in theory) should erase any political bias. It seems to me the whole structure has started to shift, which allows for this discussion to not only take place but to become objective and useful for the first time in recorded history. Obviously anyone here at Barbelith is already at the forefront of this revolution...and I'd guess our demographics do not represent the world at large. Still, we are more informed about the world than those without internet access, and better able to come to these interesting conclusions...in much larger numbers than was possible at any time in history.
 
 
spectre
13:10 / 26.09.06
this may/may not actually add anything to the thread, but I couldn't help but chuckle when I saw these this morning. Two articles on the same subject, one from the AP via CNN, the other from Fox. I know, I know, Fox being biased isn't exactly news, but the awkward insertion of conservative buzzwords, replacing "al Qaeda" with "bin Laden," etc, while still basically plagarizing is hilarious.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/09/26/rice.clinton.ap/index.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,215779,00.html
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
16:10 / 29.09.06
It's not a new study, but this does a great job in drilling into the "studies that prove a liberal bias" from an "academic non-biased point of view" and exposing at least one as, well, total crap.

It's longish, but well worth reading. I wish the scrutiny these studies get were covered as well as the studies themselves.
 
  
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