Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Temple >

Anaesthetics and Teh Art

14:52 / 23.05.06

Basically, I'm going in for a minor op in a month or so. I'm going to be put under general anaesthetic, which is a first for me. I've hear of some people experiencing very vivid dreams and even having out-of-body experiences while under and would like to see if there's a way to explore these.

Has anybody had such experiences, and can anybody give any tips or pointers? Is there any history of using anaesthetics for spiritual practices? Ketamine use springs to mind, but i'm not sure this is really the same barrel of drugs...

I'm aware that it's pretty certain i'll just drop into lovely unconsciousness and wake up an hour or so later having experienced nothing, but I figure it might be worth an attempt to broaden this event. I'm also a tad frightened of the whole thing and feel it would be nice to have something to do in order to focus the mind away from the fear :-)

15:05 / 23.05.06

surgery is always a bit difficult no matter how minor.
Best thing to do is to imagine the entire procedure being concluded successfully with happy results.

As for being knocked out and OBE's, I tend to find that instead it gives me some very interesting dreams. I'd suggest having a notebook to hand in your gear after you come out of recovery so you can write anything down.

If you're really freaked, I'd also suggest asking some benign quality in your cosmology to watch over you. That's what they're for. I'd suggest you work on this as a remedy for your fear and anxiety.

If you want OBE's they are best done when your body is healthy, happy, and can attend to itself while you're 'out'. OBE's can be very stressful on their own.

good luck!

18:19 / 23.05.06

If it's not too personal, what is the operation? That might affect your choices quite a lot.

19:25 / 23.05.06

You can stay lucid while falling asleep by using directed imagination.
While lying quietly, begin to imagine a story. Envision all the aspects of it and keep going. Gradually the story should start running of its own accord like a dream. At that point just stay focused. This can be very hard as dream logic often focuses down on a detail and then tangents off into something random. Takes practices.

Best to try this when you are not exhausted as you'll just plummet into a deep sleep instead.

19:28 / 23.05.06

good luck!

Thanks!

As much maligned as the NHS is, I've received nothing but friendly, professional and supportive care so far, so i'm actually rather full of trust in the whole procedure and those performing it. Trust feels nice.

The trust thing is helping me from being too freaked out as well.

The notebook idea is a good one. I'll try to remember that.

As for help from 'above', I have a loving family and SO, along with a good zen master with l33t r3!ki skillz, so I think that base'll be covered. I imagine few mutterings to the stars will probably happen somewhere along the line tho.

If it's not too personal, what is the operation?

Not too personal at all.

I broke my collarbone about a year ago, but it hasn't healed too well, so they're just gonna cut me open, rebreak it and pin it, with a little extra bone from my hip to encourage regrowth.

Nothing too major, but apparently it'll be the same as having broken it again - lots of discomfort, pain and general inability for a month or two afterwards. It also means I can't roll over on my left when sleeping which is a lot more annoying than you might think :-)

I don't know how long the op will last, but i don't figure that time will affect me too much.
I'm pretty glad it's not major surgery on anything vital or near vital. That would properly freak me out. As is, i'm just a mixture of worried, scared, intrigued and 'eewww! they're gonna cut me up!'.

I'm quite good at being all stoic and distanced from these things, but I'm trying to go the other way for this. I want to be there with my fears and worries rather than deny them their own voice. I feel there's a lot to be learnt from this whole thing and I'd rather try to learn something rather than take the easy way out.

The whole anaesthetic thing intrigues me though. I've often tried to 'catch myself out' while falling asleep and love that conscious trampetunia can't concieve of unconscious trampetunia. I love sleep, but this 'forced' sleep is reading at the moment as more of a death thing than a sleep thing. It's all quite bizarre really, and I'd love to find a way to explore it, unlikely as it seems at the moment.

(how does one stay conscious while falling unconscious?)

19:31 / 23.05.06

Good lucid dreaming advice.
I think i'll try to get some practice in before the 'main event'.
I assume it's one of those 'gets easier with practice things'?

00:32 / 24.05.06

yeah but when you're tired and weary your body will make you just sleep.

Watch out for the hypnogogic states in between waking and sleeping as you're likely to have weirdness.This is the state when your brain chemicals are inhibiting movement but you feel as if you are awake and start *seeing* things. Sometimes people overlap dreaming with open eyed observations of their surroundings when this happens. Night Hag syndrome is very common as well as other Presences being felt.

This is not to say that you aren't being visited, but rather that the human brain does some really weird ass things sometimes.

00:37 / 24.05.06

Is the night hag thing pretty much the same as incubi?
You wake up and can't move so feel trapped, so your mind fills in the blanks and provides a tormentor who has trapped you?

I had a similar experience once, but had been reading up on incubi recently prior to it, so managed to get my head together enough to stop panicking, realise my body was still asleep and decide sleep was probably the best option. It worked a treat!

Weird as hell tho...

19:00 / 25.05.06

yeah that is one version of the Night Hag. Often concentrating on moving one finger works as well to break it.

However there do appear to be some nasties that visit folks that probably are not the body's own sleep paralysis. Becareful of assuming all cats are grey at midnight.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

19:27 / 25.05.06

Kind of agree. Before I have a fit I sometimes smell burning; based on that, does fire not exist?

23:41 / 25.05.06

Oh yeah. Didn't mean it as 'incubi/night hags are the only truth of anything ever'. Was just describing my experience, and that of some other people.

The whole mixing of realms and states that happens in and around sleep is pretty damn interesting though. Such an excellent mix of awarenesses and mental interpretations combining to make a big sleepy ink stew. I likes.

00:46 / 26.05.06

there's a metric shit ton of killer articles on the hypnogogic state and all the high weirdness you can get up to in it.

One of my good friends dreams with his eyes open all the time. Pretty freaky that.

For me and my family the hypnogogic tends to be an aspect of OBE's. Certain conditions push us out. I spent a big chunk of my teenager years dreadfully afraid of not falling asleep *the right* way. Contrary to a lot of folk, I had to learn how not to go out a-wandering.