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Power to the Sheeple!

17:45 / 19.05.06

We have not once sought to be one in a family, to be a friend among friends, to be a worker among workers, to be a useful member of society.

I don't know why I decided to post this. Something about how people are terrified of there being High-Value posters over in the policy threads, I think. And I thought about the possibility that maybe there are certain posters who express views very close to the barbelith group conscience.

But barbelith, and a lot of the culture I surround myself with, places a very high value on non-conformity, on individualism, and at times approaches knee-jerk rejection of, well... sheeple.

With reference to the above quote, I'd like to maybe get a bit of a discussion going on the spiritual side to this, or what effect your stance on the issue of how you fit in to your neighborhood, community, or planet has on your spiritual beliefs and practises. Actually, I think it probably works the other way - that beliefs and practises probably affect the way we fit in.

22:39 / 19.05.06

You know, I think this might apply beyond how we practice magic, and perceive the non-practicers around us. It might apply with how we treat each other, as well. I'm not thin-skinned, but I've seen, and received, harsh criticisms on these boards. Levels of vitriol that the situation didn't always seem to warrant.

I wonder if that necessary harshness comes from 'staking your territory.' It's hard to be an outsider if you don't establish your borders, that you're outside. And I've seen that in some people's faces, that they are proud of their association to a writer/artist/band mostly because of it's iconoclasm, a sort of pride that confused me.

If 'every man and woman is Star,' or whatever cosmic equality you care to subscribe to, shouldn't we care about everybody from the construction worker to the techno-mage?

Either way, this question forces constructive thought upon your own processes, which seems beneficial.

08:29 / 23.05.06

What's so great about being weird?

Personally, I feel as if I've never had a choice in that matter!!

But seriously, I think that "ordinary" people are incredibly important, and anyone involved in magic who doesn't realise this is in serious danger of disappearing up their arse for ever and having their keys to the kingdom confiscated.

Carlos Casteneda warns that the man of knowledge must endeavour to avoid pride - however "enlightened" or "adept" you are, you don't have any right to think you're better than anyone else, ever. It's an easy trap to fall in to once you gain a bit of profiecency in magic.

17:01 / 23.05.06

But seriously, I think that "ordinary" people are incredibly important... however "enlightened" or "adept" you are, you don't have any right to think you're better than anyone else, ever. It's an easy trap to fall in to once you gain a bit of profiecency in magic.

Are you sure you want to draw the distinction 'I practise magic'='I am special' // 'They do not practise magic' = 'They are ordinary'?

In just an etymological sense, religion stems from 'to bind together', and sociologically it seems to function as a community activity. Something to do with your neighbors, a shared experience of the mysterious.

The vibe I get from this forum (which, I'll admit, is pretty much all the exposure I have to magical practise) is one of isolation - people practise alone, then talk about their practises here. (Or, more commonly, people think about practising, then talk about it here).

And I wanted to kind of hear if anyone has any insight into how this phenomenon - solitary practise (That's one of the first books that was reccomended to me ages ago. Wicca for the solitary practitioner), how it affects your beliefs.

The attitude of me vs. everyone else, with the line between drawn by my beliefs, seems prevalent.* I find the experience of 'fitting in' to be a deeply spiritual one, and wonder if anyone else has encountered this sense of shared humanity, and what effect it's had on their worldview.

* - I feel like I'm making sort of a straw man argument here. But I don't really know how to talk about the precise belief I'm getting at, so it all feels a big vague.

09:10 / 25.05.06

To me, one of the issues of this discussion is identity. The idea that one who practices certain techniques is a certain "thing".There's a serious problem with viewing ourselves as members of an elite group. Doing so ghettoizes our techniques, techniques that human kind needs to learn in order to survive.

In his book, "The End of Faith", Sam Harris correctly points out that it would be impossible for a member of the Jain faith to be a suicide bomber. Sure, there is the question as to whether such a philosophy would produce a group of helpless victims, but even asking those questions is the point. Too many people pay no attention to those questions. They hate who they've been taught to hate. They do not question their assumptions. They fail to examine life. That's a problem no matter what group you belong to.

In a previous post, the statement was made that a technomage and a contruction worker are of the same worth. If a construction worker practices magick and it's techniques, does s/he cease to be a construction worker? No. What s/he does become, if ze's sincere in hir practice, is a construction worker that has called into question their assumptions about reality. We need to stop our steadfast belief that what we are taught by our society and families is certainly and absolutely REAL.

Should we uphold the training of the mind as a positive value? Yes. If we don't, then we may be in for a hell of a ride.

Damn that was preachy.......oh well........

Unconditional Love

12:36 / 25.05.06

AS alluded too above, we are all more than one thing one catagory, so while being a magician we are also employed or unemployed, labelled with the various other intrests we have, which connect us to other people who have those intrests, so while being a part of a magical community we may also be a part of the musical community or the literature community.

To take one point of identity and hold that aloft as the sole burning lamp of self is to create conflict not only within ourselves but with the community around us, as if proclaiming only one view, my view is correct, a need to be accepted by others through the image we project rather than the totality of what we are and the relationships with others that this identity is founded upon.

To relate to art is to relate to the artist and all those living and dead that have allowed for the creation of that art.

it is possible to weirdly fit in or fit in weirdly the two ideas need not be at odds with each other and synthesize quite nicely together.

To extend the notion further one, all the ones that we are, may seek to understand the relationship of the conditions surrounding one, by examining the interactions in everyday life and seeing just how dependent we are on the whole of us sharing our time energy and presence with each other to formulate action.

For example focus on an exchange in a shop and look at every component involved, every catagory, how many humans have gone into creating you and those that surround you, the tools, the machines, the synthetic fibres upon the floor, say a book shop, how much humanity surrounds you in the books?

A library in this sense can be a community of souls remembered and still striving for wisdom or recognition. To relate to another human.

13:18 / 25.05.06

I tend to practice and meditate and devote on my own because I find it to be very personal. I can see the benefits of group events (and have experienced them at times), but I feel it is easy to get caught in the group 'flow' of events. This can be a great experience and has just as much worth as individual practice if done right, but I feel there is the danger (for me at least) of doing what other people want to do; going where others want to go.

I'm a pretty introverted person and often find it difficult to put my desires forward in a group. I find it a lot easier to go along with what other people are doing (with limits of course!) when in a group situation, so solitary practice is a time for me to actually get in touch with my desires and my will and express them as I feel i need.

As a lot of my 'work' at the moment is in the more cathartic realm of things (excersises to rid myself of all those clumps of mind that act as dead weight), I'm pretty self conscious about what I'm doing/what I look like. This self consciousness would be magnified intensely if I were to do it with other people, and I would end up focussing on what I looked like and what other people were thinking instead of focussing on the work.

So as far as individual practice goes, I just find it works a lot better for me. I can connect with myself, my surroundings and my work a lot more effectively if these are the only things I have to concern myself with. I also quite like my own company. It's nice to say 'hi' to the um.. deeper/quieter parts of me that I often fail to chat to when getting on with the hustle and grind.

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:33 / 25.05.06

I'm not thin-skinned, but I've seen, and received, harsh criticisms on these boards. Levels of vitriol that the situation didn't always seem to warrant.

Out of interest, have you ever doled out levels of vitriol that the situation didn't seem to warrant?

14:05 / 25.05.06

I've always been a bit paranoid about shared ritual with unknown people but highly invested in my tribe.

As a teenager my father explained Enlightened Self Interest to me as follows:

"By investing emotionally and actively in a group and extending it to the larger society, you are safe guarding your standing and future resources for yourself."

By being generous when you can and building relationships with others you are fostering a good regard for yourself. This good will is essential when your life falls apart or hits the rocks. Sure not everyone you have helped will be able to help you in turn, but chances are someone will. Extend the benefit of doubt to others because communication is often flawed.

I tend my sheeple by being a good friend to those that wish to engage with me. I also have a few folks with whom I can share sacred dialogue with. I do not value those groups more or less as friends I simply have different kinds of relationships with them.

Problem is that in a lot of communities egos are out of control and drama ensues. This has been my experience during many forays into various communities including the magical ones. Luckily, this is changing and I'm finding more collectives whose views maybe different than mine, but who I respect for being sincerely motivated.

You have to at least trust people's intent when you do a collective working.
You have to be able to identify your baggage/energy/weirdness when sorting out ritual effects. Being able to source solo work for meaningful group dialogue is essential. Mistakes happen, misunderstandings happen, the trick is to have an established productive dialogue.

Even the most non magical of my community would (hopefully) speak up in my defense when the black baggers kick in my door.

That said, this is a particularly funny quote from a friend of a friend:

''You think I'm weird, but I think you're a dullard. Go figure."