BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Twins.

 
 
Princess
15:19 / 16.05.06
I'm trying to find more information about the role of twins, or the twin archetype, and their significance in people's personal practice. At the moment I'm just trying to flesh out my own ideas, give them a depth and understanding they just don't have at the moment, so any random information is useful.
Heres what I have so far:

  • 1+1=3, or the sum is greater than it's parts. I know that sometimes the Marrassa (spelling?) are shown as a trio rather than a pair, so that might be linked.


  • The idea of Self and Other, being twins. Myself is a mirror to the divine unknown, what I am it is, what it is I am. As above so below, microsm as the twin of macrosm.


  • Twins as lovers. (eeeew...also hot, unless its my siblings, or they are ugly twins) The God and Goddess of Wicca, or the Twins of Feri. The idea that every situation is a duality of changing and interacting forces. Yin and Yang might be stuck with this point too


  • Jungian ideas of syzygy (again, I think this is the right spelling, correct me if my stupidity is showing), of union and eventual transcendence of duality. That one becomes two and then becomes one again.


  • This is obviously a pretty scarce description and interpretation, so any twin info or lore would be coolioolio.
     
     
    grant
    03:11 / 17.05.06
    There are two sets of twins among the 12 Apostles, maybe.

    James, who may or may not have been Jesus' actual brother (was referred to as "brother" in the original texts, but the word could have meant "cousin") I've seen referred to as a possible twin of Christ. I think. It gets confusing, see.

    Because there's Thomas Didymus -- the doubter, purported author of the ancient Gospel of Thomas. The Didymus bit of his name wasn't (probably) a surname, but a kenning. The word didymus means "twin" in Greek, as thomas (tau'ma) means "twin" in Aramaic. He might be Tyler Durden to St. Jude, since his full name is Judas Thomas Didymus. Or they might be twins.

    Jude is, as the link explains, brother to James and, thus, Jesus. So Thomas might be the same person as Jude and the twin of Jesus.

    --------

    There's also the divine twins in Santeria/Lucumi, whose shared name I can never remember other than that it begins with an "I". Iye? Iya? Ah, google helps me. Ibeyi or Ibeji.

    --------

    And, more importantly, Elvis (named for the All-Wise) had a stillborn twin, Jesse (named for the sinless father of King David), who may or may not have been a driving force in his psychology (depending on if you want to believe the King's hairdresser).
     
     
    Less searchable M0rd4nt
    09:57 / 17.05.06
    And if you're a big ol' heathen, you have Freyr and Freyja. Like all the Vanir, Freyr and Freyja are strongly associated with fertility, sex and all that fun stuff.

    Freyja in particular is a Goddess associated with love, beauty, and sexuality (as well as magic, battle and death). She seems not to have been petitioned for fruitfulness--good harvests, pregnancy ect--but for beauty and sexual attraction.

    Freyr was one of the best-loved gods of His people back in the day, and certain small elements of His cult have survived even into modern times. He's seen as a bringer of fertility, wealth, peace, pleasure and happiness.

    They are the son and daughter of Njord, god of the sea. Their enigmatic mother is usually called Nerthus (Earth), who may either be Njord's sister or an earlier female form of Njord Himself.

    (I can't help noticing that one form of the Marassa's veve looks a heck of a lot like Ingwaz, Freyr's rune, lying on its side...)
     
     
    Princess
    11:59 / 17.05.06
    Thats all really cool. The Tyler Durden Dynamic is something I hadn't explored, the inner twin is a cool idea. Anyone read "Anansi Boys" by Neil Gaiman? Theres a similar thing there. The idea of a self that is not yourself fits really well with twin image. Maybe other examples of this would include Peter Pan and his Shadow, Jeckyl and Hyde (sp?), or some realisations of the "fetch" spirit that is in some of the older fairy tales?
    Perhaps the idea could even be extended into conceptions of the soul? My self and my soul as seperate but similar?
    As for Frey and Fejya, they are c-c-c-cool. Much love for Frey in particular. Am I right in thinking (and smack-me-down if not) that the names translate as "Lord" and "Lady". I'd heard it before but worried if this was just a heavily Wiccanised interpretation/fabrication. If so it would suggest they where at one time pretty central to someones theology, and that their paired status was an important aspect of their identity. Is their anyone here who works with both deities and has some feeling of their relationship? Does the prescence of a twin prove to be important in any of the known stories?
    This is all good stuff, food for thought/waffle etc.
     
     
    Gypsy Lantern
    12:20 / 17.05.06
    Reading between the lines of Haitian Vodou, the concept of the Marassa seems intertwined to some extent with the idea of the Gros Bon Ange, the BIg Good Angel, a part of the soul that is like the sum total of all our habits, behaviours, knowledge, personality and sense of self. This spirit is considered the magical twin of our physical body, which actually exists in the world of spirits not in the physical word. It is our twin on the other side of the mirror. It floats on the surface of the mirror, given bouyancy by its attachment to our physical form. When the body decays, the Gros Bon Ange loses its capacity to float on the surface of the mirror and sinks down into the waters below to join the ancestors.

    This is only one view of the Marassa though, as there is a complex set of interrelated ideas behind the image. As there is with every aspect of Voodoo. More to come on this later if I get a chance.
     
     
    Less searchable M0rd4nt
    12:38 / 17.05.06
    Yep, their names really did mean Lord and Lady originally--that's not a Wiccanism.

    Sadly we lack many stories with Freyr in a central role--in fact, only one has survived, the Skírnismál, which describes Freyr falling hopelessly in love with a beautiful female Jotun named Gerðr. He sends his servant Skírnir to woo Gerðr with many precious gifts, but Gerðr is unimpressed and refuses to marry Freyr until threatened with all sorts of horrors, most of them relating to cold, darkness and sterility. The symbolism is obvious: Gerðr must accept the wooing of Freyr (the embodiment of fertility) or be inevitably doomed to sterility.

    Personal experience/UPG: Although my main work is with other deities, I do some work with the Vanir. Principally with Freyja (I have a huge and ridiculous schoolboy crush on the Vanadis). She is very demanding, an astoundingly strong female presence. I work with Her mostly in Her aspect as a guardian of the mysteries of witchcraft: the mighty witch who taught Seidhr to Odin Himself, and loans out Her falcon cloak to Loki. She's also a great teacher of the holiness in all things.

    I do also make devotions to Her brother. Freyja tapped me first, and made it very clear that if I wanted to work with Her I should make nice with Freyr too. I believe that this is important: they complement each other, and to work with one to the exclusion of the other seems likely to throw one into a serious imbalance. In my experience, Freyr acts as a grounding force, the fruit of Freyja's promise, the steak to Her sizzle.

    (Please bear in mind that I have only been at this for about a year, BTW.)
     
     
    Princess
    21:25 / 24.05.06
    This is all really cool stuff. Thanks for the info on your practice Mordant, its useful too me.
    Gypsy, could you expand a bit more on the role of the Gros Bon Ange? I know there is also a Petit Bon Ange, could you give a bit of an introduction to Vodoun concepts of the soul for us? I've done a bit of research but haven't found anything that was completely helpful. I've got a lot of of the Mambo Racine website, but I'm aware getting all my info from one source is probably giving me a rather one sided view of what is obviously a complex set of beliefs.
    All help is really apreciated.
     
     
    Gypsy Lantern
    10:07 / 25.05.06
    I forgot all about this thread. Which is probably just as well as it keeps making me think about the Arnold Schwartneggar and Danny Devito grimoire of the same name.

    The concept of the soul in Haitian Vodou, as I understand it: More than a bit in common with the Egyptian idea of the multiple soul, which I find really interesting. The two can't be directly aligned of course, but that's not the point. A lot of the time in comparing traditions, the specifics and detail will be different but the underlying dynamic being described will be broadly similar.

    Principally, you have the Gros Bon Ange and Ti Bon Ange. Literally, the Big Good Angel and Little Good Angel. The Gros Bon Ange is the essence of a human being’s character and personality and the sum total of their wisdom, knowledge, understanding and experience. This exists on the surface of the The Mirror, a being of the world of Spirit but touching the world of matter and given bouyancy by the living flesh. After death, and the decay of the body, it sinks into the waters below to join the ancestors. It must be dislodged from the body by the rite of Dessounin, or degradation, performed by a Houngan. After a year and a day in the waters it can be reclaimed by a Houngan and installed in a Govi jar as an ancestral Spirit by the rite of Retirer D'en bas D'leau.

    The Ti Bon Ange is thought of as the transcendent, spiritual aspect of our being. It’s like a guardian that watches over us and is synonymous with the conscience. Perhaps analogous with the Holy Guardian Angel in Western magic. The Ti Bon Ange is all that is good within mankind, and is that part of us that sees truth as a desirable quality. Yet its spiritually rarefied nature makes it a rather abstract and impersonal force, perhaps a step removed from the daily struggles of life. Upon death, the Ti Bon Ange liberates itself from the body automatically without the need for rites or ceremonies, and is thought to hover over the corpse for nine days and then either ascend to Heaven or merge with the universe.

    On top of this you have other concepts like the Mete Tet, or Master of the Head, who is the principal Lwa that is your patron and protector. The are the Master of your Head in the sense that your nature is most like them and you reflect their Divine qualities. A lot of the surnames of the Lwa, such as Ogun Badagris and Ogun Feraille were actually real people, Priests of Ogun, who so expressed a particular aspect of Ogun's Mysteries that upon death they became an aspect of the Ogun family of Lwa themselves.

    Then you have the notion of Z'etoile, which is weirdly almost identical to the Thelemic concept of "Every Man and Woman is a Star". In Haiti, as I understand it, every one is literally supposed to have a star in the sky that represents their destiny in the sense of One Star in Sight. I think this concept might be related to the Ti Bon Ange in some way.

    Then you have the Corps Cadaver, literally the physical body that is the material twin of the Gros Bon Ange.

    I think that's all of them.
     
     
    Princess
    11:30 / 25.05.06
    I can't believe I forgot the DeVito Grimoire!
    *smacks head*

    Thanks for all this, is tres helpful.
     
     
    grant
    17:48 / 25.05.06
    Gros: Schwarzenegger, who in the sequel becomes pregnant and gives birth.

    Ti: DeVito, the worldly, cautious character who acts as father to his twin's mystic child.

    Oh, heck.
     
     
    Haloquin
    13:35 / 29.05.06
    I've been thinking on how to express how the Divine Twins in Feri come across... but am having trouble with this as I tend to experience them in their combined form as Peacock God. There are a helluva lot of paradoxes to work through within Feri, the twins are one of them.

    First described to me as serpent and bird, earth and air respectively, that contain all opposite forces of the universe in themselves, sometimes brothers, sometimes sisters, sometimes a brother and sister.
    Normally lovers, and often considered the counterpoint/lover of the Star Goddess/God Herself... getting mythological, the Star Goddess is said to have walked in the outer darkness, the edge of space, She saw a reflection in the curved black mirror of space (First twins? light+dark=reflection?) and brought her reflection to life, known as Miria, before making love to it which caused creation (second twins? Star Goddess+Miria=Love/creation) A version of the creation myth is in the Spiral Dance.
    Here Miria tends to merge into the Peacock God, the Divine Twins as one. Depending on who you talk to and which version you read you'll get different interpretations of how exactly they are related, or not.

    When I feel them combined they have a strong sense of beauty and pride, and seperate its like a dance, like they play off each other and the tension between them is the music they dance to. I've never experienced one without their partner, and I tend to experience them as primal and genderless forces more than beings when seperate, and as a pure, sexual, primal being when they are combined as the Peacock God.
    Each twin is like opposing forces that make up the structure of the world, like yin-yang, and when pulls one way, the other pulls the other.

    Its difficult to express how I experience them without falling back on repeating words I was given for them, the words fit but don't convey how they feel very well.
     
     
    Scrambled Password Bogus Email
    15:31 / 01.06.06
    Depending on how far you want to steetch the notion of twins, you could also consider the many, many (many) twin serpent, two headed serpent, serpent which is also not a serpent (hence dual) and similar instances of serpents x 2 that appear in the cosmic creation myths of shamanic cultures the world over, from aborigines, to amzonians to siberians to innuits. Creators, always. Also, Kundalini.

    DNA, double helices, seprents coiled round each other...twins...Creator Gods...Might want to check out Jeremy Narby's book 'The Cosmic Serpent' if this sounds relevant to you.
     
     
    Unconditional Love
    08:41 / 02.06.06
    Divine twins and the sacred bond its over on the pdf book thread thingy, but in case you missed it.
     
      
    Add Your Reply