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Bush addresses the immigration issue.

 
 
Korso Jerusalem
14:45 / 16.05.06
Did anyone else catch the speech last night? It was cringe-inspiring. Clearly ol' Georgie is trying to appeal to both the left and right now, but failed on both counts.
To appease the right-wingers, he's promised to tighten border security. How does he propose to do this? By installing a "high tech fence" and some motion sensors, flying drones and the National Guard. The border is massive, but he seems content simply with the prospect of dropping some advanced technology in the desert and calllng in the Guard.

Aside from the vague, sweeping terms used to describe security, my favorite part of the speech was his desperate appeal to the liberals. No, he won't deport all the illegals. Never fear, for Bush is a cruel and just ruler. If you have a family and practice your damn faith (religion invocation #100+ , it seems) , you can stay.
Think about that one. Just for the chance of becoming a legal citizen, an illegal alien father of seven is going to risk deportation by showing up at the immigration offices? Let's be realistic here.
In the end, the whole speech just amounts to a lot of hollow promises and bids for favor from both parties.

Anyone else catch it?
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
16:51 / 16.05.06
I can't watch him live, he's too hideous. I just read the coverage.

Now, having read the coverage, it's all very clear. This is one more bullshit non-issue cooked up by Republicans to whip the less-educated and reactionary into a frenzy in an election year. Like gay marriage, for example. "Look! Gay people are getting married! Icky! What about Jesus, people? What about Jesus!?" Now it's this immigration issue. "Look! Mexicans are living in this great nation illegally! And now they sing the national anthem... in Spanish!!!"

Not to say that illegal immigration isn't an issue, but it's ridiculously far down the list of what people should be thinking about. It's below, say, an illegal war that has created unknown numbers of terrorists in the Middle East and killed thousands and thousands of innocent people. It's below a systematic destruction of civil liberties in the name of "security." It's certainly below the scads of policies aimed at widening the gulf between the very rich and everyone else. I would say it's farther down the list than the "faithification" of the American political landscape. It certainly doesn't hold a candle to what should be the number one issue in America today: Impeaching a President who has stolen elections, imprisoned innocent people without due process, murdered by proxy in starting a needless war, and given the country over to the superrich and the right-wing lunatic fringe.

As for immigration itself, I think anyone who passes a background check should be able to become a citizen. Everyone in this country, except American Indians, comes from immigrant stock. That's the entire point of this country. To the "build a wall" zealots and those Minutemen shitheads: Fuck you. I bet you wouldn't be raising a fuss if the people crossing the border were all straight white Christians. Fucking assholes.
 
 
Korso Jerusalem
17:05 / 16.05.06
A good point. I've been making the mistake of jumping on every presidential statement lately, just for the sake of being current with the issues.

It would indeed seem that the administration is doing its frantic best to draw the national attention to other, less important issues. We have government scandals and dying troops out there, but instead we focus on some immigration issues.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
17:59 / 16.05.06
They're good at it, too. They know exactly what buttons to push. It all boils down to Fear Of The Other, really. Mexican immigrants (And we are talking about Mexicans, here. Let's not kid ourselves about that. The looney tunes on the right might spout some bullshit about the 9/11 hijackers, but this is all about Mexican immigrants) speak a foreign language and aren't white. That means it's easy for brutish conservatives to make them look scary because they are so clearly not the straight white Christian that is the Republican base. It's the same with the scary gays that are destroying the sacred institution of marriage as a union between one man and one woman in Jesus, amen, or the inner-city black welfare queen that is using your hard-earned tax dollars to live a life of luxury. All sensible people see through these ridiculous caricatures, but the Republicans are masters at bringing out the fears of the less sensible and making the current election all about that issue, instead of about the larger, more important issues they want to avoid.

I want to hijack this thread for a minute and vent about a group of fuckers called the Minutemen, who I referenced in the previous post. These dopes are

willing to sacrifice their time, and the comforts of a cozy home, to muster for something much more important than acquiring more "toys" to play with while their nation is devoured and plundered by the menace of tens of millions of invading illegal aliens.

They're willing to make this tremendous sacrifice (which involves sitting in a lawn chair in the desert with a cell phone and binoculars) because

Future generations will inherit a tangle of rancorous, unassimilated, squabbling cultures with no common bond to hold them together, and a certain guarantee of the death of this nation as a harmonious "melting pot."

If these brave men and women aren't successful,

Historians will write about how a lax America let its unique and coveted form of government and society sink into a quagmire of mutual acrimony among the various sub-nations that will comprise the new self-destructing America. (all bold from their lovely website)

I don't know who the fuck these people think they are. First of all, they're "sacrificing" their time and comfort to deny other people the opportunity to have the very same time and comfort in their lives. How fucked up is that?

Secondly, the "harmonious 'melting pot'" whose death is forecast is the same "harmonious 'melting pot'" where everyone is free to melt their way into straight white Christian values. God forbid if those values weren't held to be supreme anymore.

Third, this is the first thing I see on their website:


I just really fucking hate these people, and I wanted to share that with everyone. I feel a bit better, having gotten that off my chest.

P.S. The car is called "The Spirit of Allegiance." Sleep tight.
 
 
matthew.
18:44 / 16.05.06
Helping spread the fear of the Other is the term "illegal aliens" being applied to these people. I was watching Glenn Beck, last night and he had a professor on from UCLA, Armondo Navarro, to debate the issue.

Unfortunately, both Beck and this prof were very combatative and nothing of note was said other than a fight over the terms. The professor, who argued that they form the basis of the American economy, called them "undocumented workers" while Beck preferred the term "illegal alien."

They couldn't agree on terms, and Beck told him UCLA teaches "nonsense," and Beck had to start yelling at the prof. Anyway, Beck said something rather interesting for a unofficial Republican. He said that the only reason why the "illegal aliens" form the backbone of the economy is because the large companies exploit them. I'm not sure if he was being sarcastic, as he has a history of being so, but even still, it's an interesting comment from somebody who "describes himself as pro-business, and against raising the minimum wage since he feels it is a political tool that appeals to uneducated and is economically unwise" (from Wikipedia).

I don't pretend to be an expert on immigration in the US (considering I'm a Canadian), but I can't understand why they are so vehemently opposed to it. These undocumented workers often do the jobs that American don't want to do, and they get a shitty pay for it. Is it just me, or is that completely unethical? America, you need workers, you need people to pay taxes, then why don't you allow more immigration, a living wage (higher than minimum) and then tax the immigrants? That way everybody wins; the immigrants have some place to live and work and the government gets to make money off of them!

[Also, from the Minutemen site: "Historians will write about how a lax America let its unique and coveted form of government and society sink into a quagmire of mutual acrimony among the various sub-nations that will comprise the new self-destructing America." Is it just me, or does that come from the Post-Modern Generator?]
 
 
ibis the being
18:48 / 16.05.06
I have to disagree with you guys that immigration is not an important issue. Recent nationwide protests have shown us that even we want to continue to ignore the immigrant population, they aren't going to let us. We had a pretty good, though somewhat brief thread on this issue in Switchboard recently. I understand your point that the big scary immigrants aren't coming to get us, and I agree, but I'm not sure that's what Bush is trying to tell us (though some conservative pundits are). The fact is immigrants (legal & illegal) are already a huge part of our economy and our community/ies, and we have to start adjusting to that fact. I heard today on NPR, and I'm sorry I can't seem to find a link to back this up right now, that immigrant labor makes up about 5% of the GDP. They're here, and they're not going away.

Probably for the first time in my life I had a mixed reaction to the President's speech last night. I have to admit that the guest worker program has potential... potential to be a great thing for immigrants and potential to be disastrous.

I agree with the President that we should offer illegal immigrants who are already here a path to citizenship. That sounds a bit "yeah, duh," since the alternative seems to be that we round them up and ship them out... but many conservatives balked at the former suggestion and seem to prefer the latter. Aside from the practicality and feasibility of doing that, it's not the right thing to do. Most of those people are contributing members of society or at the very least the workforce, and many have children who are citizens of the US.

My fear about the guest worker program is that it's just an excuse to create a new lower class. Every time I hear someone say - and liberals seem to say this as much or more than conservatives - that "there are some jobs Americans won't do." It's not true at all - as Ted Rall wrote in a recent cartoon, "There are no jobs that we American citizens won't do. Americans will take any job - if it pays a decent wage." No, Americans won't pick strawberries for $8,000 a year with no health insurance, job security, or workers rights. No one should! There is no problem of lazy or snooty Americans who refuse to do manual labor, there is a problem of horrible working conditions and sub-poverty level wages for unskilled (and some skilled) labor. The worst thing that could happen for immigrants and for everyone else in the country other than the super-rich would be the creation of a new legal immigrant working class who pay taxes and have citizenship but live way, way below the poverty line.
 
 
matthew.
18:55 / 16.05.06
new legal immigrant working class who pay taxes

Exactly what I was saying, but more fleshed out. Thanks ibis.
 
 
Korso Jerusalem
23:11 / 16.05.06
Yes, good point Ibis.
Don't get me wrong, I think immigration is most certainly an important issue, but it does seem to be a convenient diversion for Bush.

Keep in mind that while Bush said that rounding them all up was not feasible, he most certainly alluded to doing so. He's in full favor of permitting yet more migrant workers in, sure, but he is also hell bent on deporting those who have already settled here. Unless they practice their faith, of course.
This is the American dream gone terribly wrong. The land of opportunity seems to have become the land of limited human rights.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
04:53 / 17.05.06
We should probably lay off the christian thing in regards to Mexican immigrants, the majority are christians anyways so it's really not much of a point in this case.

I'm with Jake. You pass a background check and welcome to the USA in my opinion. (there are so many canadian poker players with work visas to just play cards here, and we're giving a hard time to people doing essential jobs?)

Bush has to be sensitive with this issue, if only for selfish reasons. Latino voter blocks are key in states like Florida and Arkansas and other places, and in recent years many latino voters identified as republicans.

I do think something has to be done about immigration, you can't just ignore it forever, try something, change if it doesn't work. If for no other reason then illegal immigrants are often working hard jobs and long hours without benefits, like healthcare for their families.

These are our neighbors man, we (the USA) haven't had any major beef with Mexico for quite some time, I don't understand what the fear mongering thing is all about.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
15:20 / 17.05.06
If you have a family and practice your damn faith (religion invocation #100+ , it seems) , you can stay.

Phallicus, could you offer some more factual info about this? What did Bush say about religion, exactly, and its relation to visa conditions?

We should probably lay off the christian thing in regards to Mexican immigrants, the majority are christians anyways so it's really not much of a point in this case.

Hello, what about those undocumented migrants who aren't Christian? The majority of US citizens are Christian, I hear. That doesn't seem like a great reason to stop critiquing the disappeaing distinction between church and state.
 
 
Korso Jerusalem
21:07 / 17.05.06
MD-

Bush didn't outwardly put religion into the deal, but the overtones were there. He said that immigrant families who have steady jobs, no criminal records and practice their faith can stay.

In closing he put special emphasis on the "under god" in "one nation under god". It's nothing too blatant, but I find it ominous as a firm believer in a secular country.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
22:27 / 17.05.06
Hello, what about those undocumented migrants who aren't Christian?
He's talking about Mexicans, the majority who are christians, and I imagine the whole "practice their faith, one nation under God" is just his way to get more of his right wingers, his biggest opponets to any kind of worker program or amnesty, to sympathise more with the Mexicans crossing the border.
 
 
grant
16:24 / 18.05.06
For some Protestants (including the flavor of fundamentalist Bush appears to be), Catholics don't really count. All those idolatrous saints and all.
 
 
matthew.
21:15 / 18.05.06
I'm sure the same goes vice versa.
 
  
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