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Sympathy For The Devil

 
 
Anthony
19:27 / 13.05.06
who would like to begin noting the good things about the Bush administration? i think it's time that i made peace with my arch-enemy
 
 
Anthony
19:34 / 13.05.06
i will start in my double-posting style by saying that the world is free of the threat posed by Saddam Hussein, an evil megalomaniacal genocidal dictator. And that's a very good thing indeed.
 
 
Dead Megatron
20:02 / 13.05.06
Getting the Taliban out of power in Afghanistan was a good consequence of BuschCo plans for world domination too
 
 
Feverfew
20:18 / 13.05.06
This is potentially a very interesting topic, especially for a non-US citizen like myself, because the view we get where I am does tend to be a little jaundiced.

Could some more detail be included, please? I understand that the removal of Tyrants and Oppressive regimes are the most notable, and arguable, worldwide actions of the Second Bush years, but what's happening inside the country that non-US readers might not know about that could be used in praise of the current administration?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
22:16 / 13.05.06
Yeah, as Feverfew says, some more detail? We'll be more likely to give our opinions if you seem willing to share yours, or at least ask what it is you want from this thread.

And Anth? Your "double posting style" can easily be misread as spamming. I know this is just two posts, but when you fill the Temple with your back-to-back posts, I get a bit nervous.

Fill out your initial post, dude. It IS a very good question, and one I'd be happy to discuss. Just please, please put in the effort you'd wish others to. Please.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
22:29 / 13.05.06
And, back on topic, was the world ever actually under threat from Saddam Hussein? I mean, the guy was fairly fucking nasty, (although everything he did to the Kurds had been suggested several decades before by Winston Churchill, but us Brits aren't allowed to actually call HIM a cunt) but exactly who, outside of Iraq's borders, was he a threat to? What with not actually having any WMDs and all?

And the Taliban. Yeah. It IS great that they're not in charge in Afghanistan (though it looks like something similar may be riding the tide in Iraq now...) but Afghans are still fucked. As they have been for ages. Afghanistan seems to be the country that the west plays its games on (the Great Game, so they say)- the 80s saw Russia bogged down there- after a brief hiatus, the early 2000s sees both the US and the US totally fucked there.

So I'm still actually a bit stuck on finding something good abouth the Bush administration.

Have they done anything about China's human rights abuses? Or Israel's? Or the UK's? Or fucking America's? Basing a presidency on morality and righteousness would only work if you, y'know, actually did something either moral or right.
 
 
sleazenation
22:50 / 13.05.06
Yeah, there are significant problems in trumpeting the Bush administration's interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Your average middle-class Iraqi in Saddam's Iraq was lacking in several key freedoms, but he did have a better transport and electricity infrastructure, and there wasn't the omnipresent threat of kidnappings and bombings from various different flavours of insurgency, let alone arbitary imprisonment and/or persecution from a foreign army...

This is not to say that Saddam's era was particularly good, just to point out that what is currently in position is not necessarily better. Or to put it another way, the vaguely positive acheivements of the Bush administration in Iraq and Afghanistan are eclipsed and overpowered by the negative destabilizing effects...
 
 
diz
23:50 / 13.05.06
As much as I think the members of the Bush administration should all be in prison, I was on their side on the Dubai ports deal and I think their immigration policy is the least horrible of all the ones on the table currently.
 
 
ibis the being
23:51 / 13.05.06
I wouldn't say "getting the Taliban out of power" like it's a done deal. In some areas their power is rising. There is still plenty of war going on in Afghanistan to this day.

The situation is Iraq is in some ways better than when Saddam was in power, but in other ways it's worse. A report was released last year about the living conditions in Iraq. Its findings include the facts that... Even though most Iraqis are now connected to water, electricity or sewage networks, supplies remain unstable and unreliable. Almost a quarter of children between the ages of six months and five years suffer from malnutrition. More young people today are illiterate than in previous generations. Just 83 percent of boys and 79 percent of girls of school age are enrolled in primary school.

Oh, wait, I'm not following the rules of the Devil's Advocate game, am I? I think pointing out the plus sides of the Bush Administration is a highly dubious venture, since the media at large and the administration itself has been working hard to put a positive spin on its path of destruction for the past six years without needing any help from us. But okay, I'll play along.

*The American economy is doing amazingly well right now. I say "amazingly" because for everyday Americans - saving is the lowest it's been since the Great Depression, spending and consumer debt are high just to afford the basics in life, home foreclosures are on the rise, and consumer confidence is low and sinking.

*And yet the economy is robust and corporations are making record profits. This is because The Bush Admin (hereafter TBA) has done plenty for big business. Their tax cuts have greatly benefitted the rich and tossed a token to the middle classes. They have refused to tell the automobile industry to improve fuel economy standards within a decade which helps the car companies and oil industry moguls get richer. Bush also declared that Carbon Dioxide is not a pollutant and therefore can't be regulated by the Clean Air Act, which really helps out those struggling auto makers and power plants. And it works! The oil companies have been having record profits.

Let's see, what else.

*Well, if you believe that marriage is a sacred institution you might appreciate the fact that TBA established Marriage Protection Week, with the President declaring I call upon the people of the United States to observe this week with appropriate programs, activities, and ceremonies.

Bush has also pushed hard to get more federal funding poured into religious organizations. That's great news if you feel that churches can use more federal funding for their social programs. On the other hand, not so good news if you think separation of church and state is important.

Most of all, TBA has done so much to keep us safe from terrorism....

*The Patriot Act. This greatly increased the government's ability to run surveillance, obtain secret warrants, get simple search warrants where more difficult wiretap warrants were once needed, etc.

*The NSA warrantless wiretap program began after 911. This is when the President issued a secret executive order that authorized the NSA to conduct warrantless electronic surveillance of international communication on anyone who was suspected of having links to a terrorist organization such as al-Qaeda or its affiliates.

*The NSA database of domestic calls also started up after 911. The NSA started keeping call logs for every single phone call in the US that was carried by 3 out of 4 major providers. Unfortunately they couldn't get the last one to cooperate with the program.

*And TBA is securing the borders. They're going to send national guard troops to the Mexican border to control that a little more tightly. And they'll be cracking down on that loosey-goosey Canadian border too, requiring passports or border crossing IDs by 2007.

My web-fu and my stomach are beginning to give out. Feel free to chime in, anyone.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
00:24 / 14.05.06
The good that's come out of the Bush administration is largely that future administrations, whether they're Democrat or Republican, will avoid his mistakes. The Bush years will hopefully be remembered as a time when America learnt hard lessons about about itself: regime change is more difficult than it looks, Intelligence agencies have to work harder and smarter while remaining inside the law, alternative fuels must become more widespread (and, despite what many on the Left and Right think, invading oil-rich countries does not equal a infinite supply of cheap oil).
The next White House will undoubtedly be Democrat, unless something major happens in the next three years, but hopefully when it turns out they're a bunch of fuck-ups and crooks who're almost as bad as the Republicans, the Republican administration that follows them won't be as bad as the one we've got now.
 
 
Anthony
06:18 / 14.05.06
thanks for the replies - i would second all of the above.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
12:17 / 15.05.06
The good that's come out of the Bush administration is largely that future administrations, whether they're Democrat or Republican, will avoid his mistakes

Ah yes, in the very same way that Reagan, Bush and GW all avoided the mistakes of, say, Nixon...

Or didn't.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
18:55 / 17.05.06
Nixon looks downright appealing compared to Reagan and the Bushes, doesn't he? His "dirty tricks" seem so... quaint, now. And some of his social policies were to the left of today's Democratic party.
 
  
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