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Miami Vice - the movie, the music, the boatshoes

 
  

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The resistable rise of Reidcourchie
07:09 / 13.07.06
There should definitely be about 5 minutes of them just driving around Miami at night listening to music and looking moody. That's important! Triplets good link. If you have a look at the other clips check out This Is What You Want, a pretty silly/dated bit of Miami Vice but a really good PIL song.

"However, I'd like to ask - am I right in thinking that this film will only work to it's best extent if it's played utterly seriously? No real in-jokes, attempts at random humour, that sort of thing? That's how it appears to me, and I'm only intrigued because of the... well... slightly camp nature of more recent remakes, but I could be wrong."

Fever your absolutly right, in effect Mann is trying to take the same concept and make it relevant to now. It's almost a shame that it's a remake because of the almost spoof nature of Charlies Angels, the truly fucking awful Dukes of Hazard (that was a pretty offensive film and hour and a half of my life that I can't get back) has set the standard and set up the prejudices as regards this sort of thing.

The thing about Collatoral and Heat, Collatoral in many ways is the better film, it's slicker, smarter and a lot less ponderous than Heat, a lot easier to watch but I have to agree with you I prefer Heat.

I was watching Last of the Mohicans again last night, I hope Mann has a crack at something historical again in the near future.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
14:30 / 13.07.06
Hella yeah, I can't wait for this movie now. Nothing like an AICN review to pump you up.

Makes me want to watch Collateral again tonight. Only because I've seen Heat too many times already. Or have I......??
 
 
Spaniel
17:58 / 13.07.06
I didn't like Collateral at all, but I love Heat and Manhunter and L.A. Takedown, and I have a real soft spot for The Last "I WILL FIND YOU!" of the Mohicans.

But Miami Vice was my first love - as I child I simply couldn't filter it at all, and it hit me hard, emotionally and aesthetically- and after reading that review I so want this film to be good. What he's describing there is like my fantasy movie: a classy HBO production for the big screen, directed by Michael Mann on his A-game. Sadly, although I think Moriarty's reviews are usually well thought out, we often don't see eye to eye. I hope this isn't one of those times.
 
 
Feverfew
18:50 / 13.07.06
Ok... so, if I thought about it, Foxx's delivery of the line I singled out might be flat because Mann is producing a more serious film. Hopefully.
 
 
Spaniel
19:15 / 13.07.06
Well, I suspect he's playing it very straight. I'm not sure Mann knows how to do anything else - he played Last of the Mohicans straight, fercryeye.

Also, I think Moriarty might've picked up on any knowingness, or tongue-in-cheekery.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
22:51 / 13.07.06
shiznit. I just watched the trailer again. aside from still looking ace, i completely forgot how brilliant this trailer is. when they match the guns cocking to the snares and hihats.... I think I crapped.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
02:29 / 14.07.06
Thinking of music from the original TV series, Fields Of The Nephilim's Vet For The Insane was used in an episode about snuff movies, as far as I remember.
 
 
The resistable rise of Reidcourchie
07:26 / 21.07.06
I remember that episode. The thing is that episode should not have been made at the time it was. In the 80's there was a lot of very serious pressure to cut down on the violence on TV (The bastards made the Fall Guy shit!), to do an episode about snuff films and, if my memory is correct, handle it in quite a responsible manner was quite an impressive feat. Of course it's more than 16 years since I've seen the episode so I could be wrong.

The other thing about Miami Vice which was impressive was bot the guest stars and the bit part players who ended up famous, Bruce Willis, a very young Ving Rhames, an equally young John Leguizamo (sp?) (in fact it sometimes seemed that every hispanic actor of a generation turned up playing a drug dealer in Vice at one time or another).

Not just actors but musos where in there as well Leonard Cohen, bizarrely playing a French drug dealer, Miles Davis, sorry Miles Fucking Davis playing a sex trafficer but by far and away my favorite (the weird alien, prot-X-files episode with James Brown notwithstanding) was Eartha Kitt as a Santera priestess. Brilliant!

I'm not mentioning the episode with Phil.
 
 
PatrickMM
15:44 / 30.07.06
I saw it yesterday and loved it. This is one of the most stylish, atmospheric films I've seen in a long time. There are some ridiculous action sequences, and the gun shot sound effects are the best I've ever heard, but what it's really about is getting lost in a mood. The characters aren't developed in a traditional way, rather you go into their world and feel what they feel, so you're inherently sympathetic to them.

I think most critics are completely missing the point on this one by poking out holes in the plot or character development. This is a film about a feeling, the world weariness of our heroes seeking out love even though they know it's impossible to have a personal life and keep their jobs. It's a lot like Heat in that respect, only this film pushes those themes in a more abstract direction. From a narrative point of view, this is Mann's sloppiest film, but if you look it as a film, a singularly constructed visual experience, it's a masterpiece. It's easily the best film I've seen this year.
 
 
The Falcon
16:00 / 30.07.06
I sincerely hope the Tiga remix of 'Crockett's Theme' is in it.
 
 
matthew.
16:09 / 30.07.06
I'm going to see it tomorrow! I'm so fucking jazzed.
 
 
The resistable rise of Reidcourchie
10:11 / 31.07.06
Cheers Patrick:

"and the gun shot sound effects are the best I've ever heard"

I recently got hold of the special edition of Heat. In the gun battle outside the bank all the gunshots are recorded live, the sound editor tried to add effect gunshots in post but Mann didn't like them and had them removed.

Do people think it's worth setting up a spoilers/post vieweing thread or are we happy to carry on with this one?
 
 
The Falcon
10:53 / 31.07.06
tbh, I think it's only really superhero-type films, which acquire at least 8 pages of speculation beforehand that are a problem here. Transformers'll prolly need a new one, too. Comicbook films, whatever.

This is pretty moderate.
 
 
The resistable rise of Reidcourchie
12:04 / 31.07.06
It's bloody criminal how undersubscibed this Thread is!
 
 
Henningjohnathan
15:34 / 31.07.06
I wouldn't recommend this to people looking for the next LETHAL WEAPON, for sure. I thought it was a great piece of ambiguous filmmaking. I definitely saw a lot more of the Jean-Pierre Melville influence in this than even in other Mann films and that's unexpected for what's billed as a big mainstream movie.

At the core of the movie is the style established in the television show, but with much more dedication. The plot is complex but understandable, yet the actors add absolutely no emotion to whatever they say. You can read a lot into their expressions, but there is nothing there that you can hold onto. The dialogue is very cyclic with the same words and phrases repeated from scene to scene for contrapunctal effect and shaded with slight changes based on context rather than content. This is NOT Mamet dialogue but it follows one of his guidelines: "People rarely say what they mean, but they mean what they mean."

What most people won't like about the movie is that there is very little humor and action. For me, the dedication to the style of the movie is also reflective of Mann's dedication to the seriousness of an occupation that requires unflinching betrayel and occasionally shooting and killing people. If Mann, as a writer and director, takes this movie seriously, then he's not going to give undercover cops a lot of wisecracks. Leave that to Tarantino.

Farrell's performance will likely turn off many people but I really thought he was doing some of his best work. This is very similar to his performance as John Smith in THE NEW WORLD. Rather than doing the mugging that made him famous in roles like Bullseye or the Man in the Phone Booth in PHONE BOOTH, he seems much more human and flawed as Sonny Crocket/Barnett. There is a scene where he mixes business with pleasure in Havana that requires operation on at least four levels. He has to make a deal with Isabelle, his lover, contract employer and target so that he and Ricardo Tubbs/Cooper can continue doing business with her to get to her employer, Montoya. He has to balance the fact that he's a cop who needs to look like a criminal smuggler with the fact that he is also falling in love with her AND he also has to balance the fact that she's falling in love with him as the criminal, and he has to factor in that that will influence the way he bargains. It's not a scene thatyou usually see in these sorts of crime dramas - the uncertainty on the part of the undercover cop as he does his business betraying people who are becoming important parts of his life.

I had a friend who's father was a former ATF undercover cop. He became an alcoholic from the work and, now recovered, counsels other agents. He said that his job consisted of making the closest friends in the world, committing crimes with them and then turning them in. Often the people he arrested would insist that he handle their interrogations since "they could trust me."

In the end, Michael Mann may have perfected his vision of the television show MIAMI VICE from the 80's where style is the substance. I think that a theme running through all his films is that the activity of acting in movies is not that much different from simply living your life. In almost every situation, our personality is a role we play and our interaction with others is some sort of performance. I think that Mann is obsessed with police and criminals for the reason that they are probably the best actors alive and they will never step in front of a camera or win an Oscar. The entire point of the movie is to use music and image to build a series of contexts, true and false, until, in the climax, the facades are stripped away leaving only the struggle for life and death: the violence.

It's not for everyone, but like LADY IN THE WATER, another recent film that discarded conventional appeal for personal vision, I read into the movie a much deeper and affective experience than I've seen in a long time.
 
 
matthew.
12:38 / 01.08.06
"There's undercover and then there's which way is up."

The people I saw this movie with last night hated it with a vengeance. Their words? "Dreadful" "Boring" "Confusing".

Me, on the other hand, I loved it. Well, sort of. There is humour in the film; a lot of critics' main problem was how serious this film took itself. I'm not sure why that was a problem. It's not like Mann's films have ever been lighthearted.

There was some dialogue that smacked me in the face, especially the talk about Sonny's boat. "How fast does it go?" "Really fast" "Show me." Blech!

But then, Tubbs says that line that I have at the top. Mmmm. That's good.

Did anybody else notice that whenever an advertisement/billboard was shown, it featured eyes? In that city on the tri-borders, the billboard is of a gigantic eye. I wonder....
 
 
PatrickMM
21:18 / 06.08.06
Here's a great article on the film, which covers a lot of why it's a great, very unique film. I think the comparison to The New World is totally appropriate, this is definitely in that moody, Wong Kar-Wai style world that many great films belong to. I've heard a lot of people saying that the movie was confusing or didn't have enough action, but they seemed to miss the appeal of it, which was in the mood, the feeling you find in the film.

It's odd to me that a pretty mainstream comedy like Little Miss Sunshine gets shown at arthouse theaters while this, a movie that has much more in common with traditional art cinema gets a mainstream release. I'm glad it did, but this is a real art film, and it's understandable why mainstream audiences didn't embrace it.
 
 
PatrickMM
21:22 / 06.08.06
Ah, copy and paste difficulty. This is the proper link.
 
 
MJ-12
01:40 / 07.08.06
Possibly the most unintentionally funny film I've seen in a very long time.
 
 
Ethan Hawke
12:28 / 07.08.06
Can you patch me through to your SAC, MJ?
 
 
MJ-12
15:10 / 07.08.06
Maybe later, I've got to deliver this load.
 
 
Janean Patience
20:53 / 07.08.06
I'm with the mainstream on this being a disappointment. The best thing about the movie was its look; digital camera giving the visuals a slick sheen, haze always in the air, rain on the horizon. That I liked.

Otherwise, it was a peculiarly directionless piece of cinema. "That was a lot of film for one shootout," the friend I saw it with said, and he had a point. Action films don't have to be all about shootouts, and this didn't have to be an action film. If Michael Mann had wanted to make a subtle, character-driven piece about power and corruption, I would have been there. Instead this had the tropes of action - two incorruptible heroes going undercover to kill bad guys - without any decent action and without any depth. Why did our guys fit in so perfectly as drug transporters? How did they pick up their awesome skills? Did all that wealth turn their heads? Questions unanswered and unasked.

SPOILERS, I guess

The final shootout was a disappointment, compared to the one in Heat. It was a disappointment compared to the average firefight in Halo 2. Two groups of guys, mainly in fixed positions, shooting at each other with neither guile nor style. One good guy got wounded. All the bad guys, who'd decided to abandon clever technology and tricks when the movie didn't have long to go, got dead. All moral ambivalence had been abandoned the moment the crime bosses' henchman turned on Tubbs and Crockett, and just to make sure he was given a gang of white supremacists to fight with. (Though after Alan Moore's problems with Hollywood, it was nice to see him in a small neo-Nazi role here.)

Something about the pacing bothered me, and it wasn't until later I worked it out: this was a TV pilot. Exciting opening 20 minutes to get the viewers hooked, padded middle and a perfunctory action bit at the end. It'd go to a series, but it wasn't a film.
 
 
Totem Polish
21:58 / 07.08.06
(Though after Alan Moore's problems with Hollywood, it was nice to see him in a small neo-Nazi role here.)

Alan Moore? Are you serious? I've been kind of ambivalent about seeing this film after the guys at pajiba gave it an ambivalent review, made me think it was another Collateral, meaning Mann making a poor choice somewhere along his meticulous production process. In that case it was Tom Cruise...this little novelty might just sway me, combined with the trailer it's worth it on curiosity alone.
 
 
Janean Patience
08:16 / 08.08.06
Alan Moore? Are you serious?

I wasn't serious, sorry. Alan Moore is not repeat not in the film. It's just that one of the white supremacists looks like him: major hair, beard, intense eyes. Don't allow this to sway you to see this.

Though keen tonsure-watchers will get a lot from this movie. Farrell can carry his moustache, but the streaked-slicked do overwhelms his natural charm. Foxx seems to expect his two-inch beard, kind of a chin wedge, to act for him in emotional moments and just slackens his face into an empty trapezoid around the mouth.

I expect to see one day stills of this movie in them books posh hairdressers have for you to choose your style. It will be influential nowhere else.
 
 
nedrichards is confused
12:47 / 08.08.06
Surely the drug lords Blessed and bald patch would be in the book too?
 
 
miss wonderstarr
14:44 / 09.08.06
Man, that was a disappointment. Ten minutes after seeing it, I forgot I'd even been to the cinema, let alone that I'd seen Miami Vice. The guy two rows ahead of me just laughed when the title finally came up... like, "what the fuck? Did I pay for that?" I know how he felt.

There were a few things I liked.

1. After listening to Numb/Encore for the last two weeks, going straight into "who you know fresher than Hov? riddle me that?" gave me a kick-ass audio doubletake, as if the film had jacked straight into my ipod. The next ten minutes were a ride ~ the kind of confusion you don't mind letting go to and just trusting. A nice feeling of being straight in, and a confidence that things will get explained later. The eyes-across-a-club sightlines reminiscent of a middle scene in "Collateral".

2. The reliance on digital images throughout ~ videocams, laptops, mobile phones ~ layered within the digital image of the film itself. As though the movie was saying, look, we all see this kind of grainy handheld all the time, this is what our lives are made of. This is how we understand the world. This is why digital is the only way to shoot.

3. The hit on the trailer park. Here at last there were three things that surprised me and made me feel I was in the good center of a Jack Reacher novel ~ the optic drilling thru the floor, the bullshit (or was it) about the bullet stopping the brain before the body could know about it, and the explosion when it was all meant to be done and dusted.

Otherwise ~ put it this way, I was thinking about work in the middle of this movie, and my work is not undercover cop. My work should be more boring than watching undercover cops.

I rap this flick for its self-indulgent scenes that did nothing at all to advance the narrative ~ ok, I've seen a "go-fast" boat, I don't have to see it go fast for ten minutes. I've seen two toned bodies have sex, I don't have to watch it in pore-focus close-up for ten minutes. I don't have to watch two more toned bodies having sex in close-up for another ten minutes, a half hour later. I don't have to watch both couples in identical shower scenes. I definitely don't have to watch all those scenes with some "2005's smoothest R'n'B love grooves" soundtrack.

And for so much that seemed to have been done before. The maverick cop testing his boss's patience. The undercover agent losing track of his own loyalties. All the bad-ass bluff and threat to front out a drug dealer. This stuff might have been new in "Lethal Weapon". All it needed was Sonny angrily throwing down his badge on a desk, and his chief later handing it back with an exhange of understanding looks, to complete the compendium of 80s cop cliche. I mean the idea of bringing out a grenade in a gangster's den was STOLEN FROM RETURN OF THE JEDI!

Maybe Mann should actually have played this up as a Very Eighties pastiche and got some more explicit comedy out of it. I felt like I was watching a really extended music video. I know that's what people said about the original too, but... maybe the original doesn't really bear watching now, either.

The best bit of the 80s series was the title credits. The best bit of this version is the trailer.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
15:36 / 09.08.06
Having now read a dozen reviews of the movie online, I see that the formula is this:

1. "Forget about the... [pet aligator / shoes without socks / linen suits]"

2. "Whatever the... [name some flaws] the film [inevitably] looks gorgeous..."

3. "The real star is not Farrell or Foxx but [Mann / Miami / crime]."
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
17:20 / 09.08.06
I mean the idea of bringing out a grenade in a gangster's den was STOLEN FROM RETURN OF THE JEDI!

Don't you think that was a very knowing homage?
 
 
miss wonderstarr
22:11 / 09.08.06
Do you, Keith? If it was, then that puts it in a different light I suppose ~ but doesn't "knowing" mean that the viewer should be in on the director's gag, rather than only the director knowing (for sure) what he's trying to do?
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
03:26 / 10.08.06
well, i dunno, maybe i'm just too much of a SW nerd, but that's what I thought right away. Regardless, though, it's unlikely that Mann is stealing direction from Return of the Jedi, right? He either just did it cause he thought of it, or did it knowing what he was emulating.

as for the movie in general, I liked it quite a bit, especially how atmospheric it was. However, it was about 30 minutes too short on character, too much jumping from one scene to the other quickly, and without much motivation. I read that early cuts were more like 3 hours, and that seems more "right" to me somehow. Mann's style is so...luxurious... it needs room to breathe and grow. It still astounds me that he compacted Collateral into a normal size movie.
 
 
matthew.
04:34 / 10.08.06
wonderstarr's post on the Vice reviews is fucking perfect.

I find that I gravitate closer to hir thoughts on the flick with every day. What I need is a director's cut. Let's see what he can do with more time to develop the character. With Mann pictures, the actors need time to slip into the skin and get comfortable until they can do something new with the character.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
06:38 / 10.08.06
well, i dunno, maybe i'm just too much of a SW nerd, but that's what I thought right away. Regardless, though, it's unlikely that Mann is stealing direction from Return of the Jedi, right? He

Sure, I agree ~ what I meant was that this seemed an extreme case of this gritty 2006 movie taking its main tropes from comparatively-tame and certainly-pretty-old early-80s movies.

I also thought of the echo right away, but if Sonny had said to Rico beforehand "last resort? We use the Boussh gambit" I would have enjoyed that moment much much more.
 
 
Janean Patience
07:05 / 10.08.06
Surprised nobody's mentioned Mann's knowing homage to Loesser's Guys & Dolls, based on the Damon Runyon short stories, where white-suited Sky Masterson whisks a girl off for an impromptu date in Cuba. Though it would have worked better for me if Gong Li had burst into a chorus of If I Was A Bell I'd Be Ringing.

Can you spot a homage/lazy steal in Miami Vice? Fun for all the family!
 
 
miss wonderstarr
09:33 / 10.08.06
That's a good point, Wolf... I think it occurred to me on some semi-conscious level! (Am I cheating?) I'm sure I read, in one of those dozen reviews yesterday, a reference to another intentional cinema homage, but I can't recall it now.
 
 
PatrickMM
02:47 / 21.11.06
News on the Director's Cut...which apparently features some major alterations. I'm really annoyed to hear that the first sequence is being messed with because I fell in love with the movie right on that opening cut to the club. This sounds like the same kind of thing that happened with The New World, where a filmmaker tries to soften a film and make it a bit more broadly acceptable. However, I'm hoping he doesn't wind up messing with the atmosphere of the film, I think the theatrical cut was the best film of the year so far, because of its refusal to conform to traditional narrative style.
 
  

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