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Celibacy 101!

  
 
foolish fat finger
22:53 / 08.05.06
no snarks please, we're British...

it seemed appropriate to start a thread for anyone not engaging in the pursuit of sexual partners.

my own reasons for celibacy; I had a few serial relationships, with women I was very keen on. one by one, they broke down. the last woman I was very attached to, and when it didn't work out (18 months ago), I had to rethink my priorities. I started to feel like I was continually getting on and off a merry-go-round, but each time it was getting less and less merry. each time, I could forsee the end already written.

and so, I decided I would try to love women, and indeed men, without getting my cock involved. I find it can complicate matters.

it's a challenge. I am not doing particularly well, but there have been some successes. the hardest thing for me is that just because I have made the decision, it doesn't mean the desire goes away. if anything, for me, it has become stronger...
 
 
SMS
02:09 / 09.05.06
Is celibacy part of a larger ascetical project/ a project of specific non-normative performances designed to inaugurate a new subjectivity? Are there other practices that go along with your celibacy? Is celebacy defined in degrees? For instance, is it more celibate to refrain from sexual behavior AND infatuous thoughts than it is simply to refrain from sexual behavior? Does celibacy have to feel like a sacrifice to be celibate or is it better if it is done with ease?

Does celibacy mean something different depending on sexual orientation?

Do you feel that your intentional practice of celibacy is predicated on a particular vision of the human body's value?

How long do you intend to practice celibacy and how does this tend to compare with those periods of unintentional singleness?

Particularly for Stoatie: What do you mean by "some successes"?
 
 
Isadore
07:48 / 09.05.06
What if someone is just not interested in having sexual relationships? Is that an option? Must celibacy be forced?
 
 
wembley can change in 28 days
09:18 / 09.05.06
Oh good, I'm glad someone started this thread. I'm interested in celibacy not so much because I've been unintentionally celibate for a long time, but because the person I'm in love with (and who I know loves me back) seems to have chosen celibacy for the past five years or so with no signs of reversing this trend.

Weirdly enough, our relationship is very intense, and it doesn't seem to want to get sexual, but we've lately started to get into other behaviours involving trust and give and take of power (something like a light introduction to S&M), and, well. It's interesting. Instead of having sex we're slapping each other and enjoying it. Is it the same? Hell no, but there's some kind of emotional thing that's being taken care of...

Does anyone else in celibate relationships find themselves getting creative in order to reach the level of intimacy/trust/whatever it is that we crave with an other?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:50 / 09.05.06
Particularly for Stoatie: What do you mean by "some successes"?

It's not actually me.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:55 / 09.05.06
Weirdly enough, our relationship is very intense, and it doesn't seem to want to get sexual, but we've lately started to get into other behaviours involving trust and give and take of power (something like a light introduction to S&M), and, well. It's interesting. Instead of having sex we're slapping each other and enjoying it.

Ah, wembley... I think you might be having sex. I mean, you might not, but you might be.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
13:00 / 09.05.06
SMS, I made the same mistake. It's Stoatie's disembodied head. I am concerned that other posters' body parts might now also get their own fictionsuits - maybe Ganesh's trunk or Gumbitch's knees or Triplets' abs.

Bring me the head of E Randy Dupre!
 
 
Mistoffelees
14:03 / 09.05.06
I haven´t had any sex since my girlfriend broke up with me a couple of years ago.

I just don´t care that much about it (or about having a new relationship) to go looking for a new girlfriend and I´m not interested in having sex with someone, I´m not in a relationship with.

After ten years of living alone, I´m so used to it, that I don´t know if a serious relationship would be worth giving up much of the life I know.

So I´m not doing anything to change my "celibate" life, but I probably wouldn´t mind that much if I met somebody new either.
 
 
foolish fat finger
18:19 / 09.05.06
I have apologised to stoatie for having a similar name. I was just messing around- I actually wanted to be called ‘.’ for a bit. But I typed in stoathead as a joke, because I was thinking about stoats, probably from reading one of stoatie’s posts, and then it stuck- I didn’t realise u can only change yr name every 28.

What if someone is just not interested in having sexual relationships? Is that an option?

No, I don’t think that’s an option. I think celibacy is only worthwhile if it involves the maximum of suffering- self-flagellation, freezing showers and rolling in broken glass all help this end I find… I am joking of course.

Myself, I am not forcing myself to be celibate, but I am struggling with sex desire still being in me.

By ‘some successes’, I mean there have been a couple of times, one in particular, where I managed to derail my usual sexual train of thought, and turn it into a thought pattern of loving-kindness. It was tough, but I was pleased to have been able to control my desires.

Wembley and mistoffelees, I found yr posts very interesting.

I don’t know if celibacy necessarily goes along with ascetism, but for me, I do tend towards that side of things quite naturally.

The other thing I found is that when you remove sex as a goal, u lose a big motivational force. I was surprised by how much of my behaviour was directly or indirectly motivated by sex desire.
 
 
*
18:32 / 09.05.06
The In-Depth FAQ at the Asexual Education and Visibility Network (AVEN) may be a good thing for me to link to at this point.

While most sexual people are shown a multitude of ways to live a life which involves sex, most asexual people find very little information on how to live life without it. The Asexual Visibility and Education Network (AVEN), was created to address this discrepancy by encouraging dialogue among about about asexual people. We provide a safe space for asexual people to discuss our experiences in our online forum, and actively organize for the recognition and acceptance of asexuality.
...

"Am I Asexual" is one of the most common questions asked here on AVEN, and it is not one that any of us can answer. Like all identities, asexuality is self-proclaimed; someone is asexual if they say that they are. There are no set critertia that make someone asexual or not, no test to see if someone "qualifies" as asexual. Like all sexual orientations, asexuality is a concept that individuals are free to use and modify as they see fit. Anyone who thinks that the term "asexual" might be useful in thinking about themselves and explaining themselves to others is welcome to use it. Some people experience asexuality differently than others. Though there is no way to describe the full diversity of asexual experience, much of it can be thought of in terms of three factors:

* Attraction- Asexual people differ in how strongly they experience attraction. Some asexual people find themselves strongly attracted to others. They will experience a desire to become intimate with the people that they are attracted to, but no desire to express that intimacy sexually. Asexual people who experience attraction will often identify themselves as gay, bi, or straight as well as asexual. Other asexual people will experience attraction weakly or not at all. These individuals often do not identify with an orientation. Though they are less likely to “fall in love,” many still desire, pursue and achieve close intimate relationships.
* Arousal- Asexual people also experience differing levels of sexual arousal. For some sexual arousal is a fairly regular occurrence, though it is not associated with a desire to find a sexual partner or partners. For some arousal is merely an annoyance. Others will occasionally masturbate, but feel no desire for partnered sexuality. Other asexual people experience little or no arousal. These individuals generally do not see their lack of arousal as a medical or psychological problem, and do not seek treatment to alter it.
* Relationships- There is considerable diversity in how asexual people desire and seek intimate relationships with others. Some feel little need for relationships and prefer their own company. Most are socially active, maintaining networks of friends who can provide intimacy and support. Some asexual people form romantic relationships, some choose to marry. Others simply seek close friendship, or to form relationships which “blur the line” between friendship and dating.
 
 
Hydra vs Leviathan
19:25 / 09.05.06
What if someone is just not interested in having sexual relationships? Is that an option? Must celibacy be forced?

well, having just looked on Wikipedia, under the heading "Reasons for celibacy" in their definition it does in fact say (albeit last on the list) "It could even be a case of no interest in sex".

However, i'd argue that, at least from the Christian (and also Hindu/Buddhist?) conception of spiritual celibacy (which or not-explicitly-religious analogues of which are my primary associations with the word), to deserve the term as a (pedantically) "correct" usage celibacy properly involves some sort of deliberate self-denial - not necessarily in a negative/self-hating way, but in the sense of a deliberate choice to go counter to, or not "obey" one's own desires/instincts - this, imo, would be its distinction from both asexuality/disinterest in sex and 'involuntary celibacy'...

i personally am (coming to terms with being) involuntarily celibate, but at previous times in my life have been both asexual and voluntarily celibate (although, tbh, the latter is debatable, as then i was also involuntarily celibate... but let's just say that, as a Christian at the time, i believed that i had a celibate vocation)...

i'm not sure what would be a good term for those who, while not actually asexual, are happy not to have sex/interested enough in other priorities to not actively seek and not mind not having sex (i do know a few people who that category would apply to), but i think there is a significant distinction between actively choosing not to do something, while on some clearly identifiable level wanting to do it, and merely not prioritising it...
 
 
Isadore
22:27 / 09.05.06
The reason I asked the question I did is because I am voluntarily celibate -- a member of a romantic relationship for four and a half years without sex involved -- and often that is not considered as even an option in discussions like this. So I am not really celibate if I don't feel like I'm giving something up? Strange.

That's a really great link, id. Answers quite a few of my long-standing questions on whether there is a place for love without sex, and the first sentence you quoted there really does jive with my experience.
 
 
foolish fat finger
23:20 / 09.05.06
I think that is cool, celane. my feeling is, I guess it doesn't matter- if you want to label yourself as celibate, that is fine, if you feel it is not an issue, that is fine too. something makes me think of anarchists- if you call yourself an anarchist, you are ipso facto not one, as you are identifying with some perceived criteria of anarchy. so I guess, if it's not an issue for you, there is no need to proclaim yourself as celibate.

I am finding people's opinions and descriptions of their lifestyle choices in this thread really interesting.

myself, I guess I would identify with the 'spiritual celibacy' tag, but also my initial motivation was just a feeling of fed-upness with the constant beginnings and endings of new sexual relationships in my own life...
 
 
*
03:23 / 10.05.06
(ARRGH. ANARCHY... DOES—NOT—MEAN—NO—LABELS... IT—MEANS—NO—RULERSokaysorryfinished.)
 
 
wembley can change in 28 days
04:41 / 10.05.06
Ah, wembley... I think you might be having sex. I mean, you might not, but you might be.

Haus, for some reason that made me feel... fulfilled.

If I actually do have sex sex, you'll be the first to know. This, of course, is me assuming that non-celibate behaviour involves intercourse. If you make out (which I don't, except on stage these days), is that a lapse in celibacy?
 
 
All Acting Regiment
06:17 / 10.05.06
I wonder if people would allay some of the worries I have for self-proclaimed celibates.

Allow me to explain, first, with a (to a degree) comparable example based on observations of behaviour in the real world. Suppose I have a friend, X. When asked if they're coming out for a few drinks, X might say, perfectly confidently, "Oh, I prefer not to visit bars at night", or "Oh, I prefer not to drink alchohol". In this case, I might worry that what they really mean is "Though I feel as though I'm missing out, I am afraid of visiting bars (because of social phobia or inexperience or other)".

Faced with an unreasonable phobia that is controlling them, they pretend that it is actually what they want- when it isn't. It's a bad coping mechanism, a way of pretending they've conquered their phobia when actually they haven't.

Now, certain celibate people I know appear to me (I know this is subjective) to be running this same mechanism. Faced with years of getting crap for having glasses or being "too fat", they've taken on some form of asexuality as an identity- and built it up and strengthened it until there's this horribly unhealthy wall up around them. Now, obviously, I don't know for sure that "they really want a boyfriend/girlfriend", but they really don't seem happy with this celibacy at all- something that they refuse to admit.

(Caveat- This might be the same thing as Stockholm Syndrome- I'm not sure. Also, I might be being asexual-phobic in assuming what these people want to be- however, in my above example, I am not talking about all asexual-identifying/celibate people, I'm talking about certain individuals. This still might not get my fat out of the fire, however, so do tell me if I'm being a nobber.)

What I want to know is, as a celibate, how does one prevent this situation from occurring? How does one make sure that you aren't just letting yourself be controlled by fears or uncertainties or residual negativity about sex (things which, it goes without saying, even the most "sexual" people have in spades)?
 
 
grant
18:13 / 10.05.06
Potential role models: Rivers Cuomo of Weezer, who became celibate to deepen his practice of Vipassana meditation.
 
 
Dead Megatron
18:41 / 10.05.06
I'm currently in last year of journalism school, doing internship with the Public Security Secretariat -which runs the Police* - and doing the eventual transaltion on the side, so the absolute lack of energy fo sex-chasing has put in a situation of, let's say, semi-involuntary celibacy. The very few hours I have for myself, I have been using to sleep, and sleeping this days have been so satisfying, it's almost sexual (this was a tongue-in-cheek comment, btw). But, what I really want to ask is - and I realise this may be a very 101 question - is it really celibacy if you still masturbate from time to time?

*a job, I might add, that can be a real turn-off, considering the kind of story one is required to cover. I won't annoy you with the gory details.
 
 
Mistoffelees
19:13 / 10.05.06
But, what I really want to ask is - and I realise this may be a very 101 question - is it really celibacy if you still masturbate from time to time?

Celibacy refers either to being unmarried or to sexual abstinence (wikipedia). Maybe there could have been a better word for this thread (if there is, I don´t know it).
Apart from catholics, you can still masturbate and be celibate, I believe.
 
 
Dead Megatron
19:20 / 10.05.06
Apart from catholics, you can still masturbate and be celibate, I believe.

I am a catholic, but a very loose kind of catholic (God save ecumenism), but that comment gave me a total flashback to that old Monty Pithon music: "Every sperm is sacred"
 
 
foolish fat finger
21:14 / 10.05.06
(id)entity- I take anarchy to mean 'absence of any cohesive principle', well that is one definition in my dictionary. so I still believe the self-proclamation of adherence to anarchist principles to be a paradox. I seem to have ruffled yr feathers a bit tho, you've written all in capitals. that means you feel quite strongly about it, doesn't it?

I believe the Dalai Lama masturbates ocasionally. I couldn't name a source, but my friend, who is a big fan, told me that he said as much during an interview...
 
 
Mistoffelees
21:22 / 10.05.06
There´s an interesting article on wankipedia about it.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
16:40 / 11.05.06
Legba - And if that is the case, as it may well be for me, so what? The definition for celibate is 'not having sex', not 'not having sex but could go out and have sex with anyone they wanted to at any minute if they chose to'. Just as gay doesn't clue you in to whether he's a big old lunk in a monogamous relationship or a hellraiser that goes out every night and never sleeps in the same bed twice.
 
 
*
17:22 / 11.05.06
(aside to stoatie's disembodied head— it means I'm trying to be amusing about what I am fully aware is an irrational little pet peeve.)
 
 
foolish fat finger
11:26 / 12.05.06
why are some anarchist's so touchy about that? the Taoist's don't seem to be bothered by it...

(the Tao that can be shown is not the Tao- therefore the taoist who claims to be a Taoist is not a true Taoist... oh I'm gonna stop. I haven't a clue what I am talking about)

it's pronounced sto-theed by the way...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:40 / 12.05.06
Well, because an anarchist is not somebody who is fighting for the absence of any coherent principle, are they? That's a different meaning of anarchy from the political meaning, and people who describe themselves as anarchists are referring to the political principles of anarchy. Therefore, it is perfectly reasonable for somebody to self-describe as an anarchist. How's that?
 
 
Spaniel
12:03 / 12.05.06
Just to chime in here.

I don't know too much about Anarchist politics, but from what I've been told - by those that do - your analysis is pretty far off base, Stoathead.

Perhaps you could get a Googling.
 
 
Spaniel
12:14 / 12.05.06
I know where you're coming from, Legba. I know a couple of people who have declared themselves celibate, and both of them could well have done so in order to insulate themselves from pain.

I also know people who have declared themselves celibate/asexual for what seemed to be good, healthy reasons.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
13:13 / 12.05.06
I agree with Haus and Boboss- personally I don't see why I shouldn't be able to describe myself as someone who is opposed to having leaders.

Perhaps an Anarchism 101 thread?
 
 
SMS
00:00 / 16.05.06
On the varieties of anarchy
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
00:27 / 16.05.06
Ah, wembley... I think you might be having sex. I mean, you might not, but you might be.

Small point: I'm glad, Haus, that you leave the potentials here open. (Was there an edit, as I did mean to come back to this earlier?) as it's important to remember that SM/Power Exchange practices may not neccessarily be (simply or at all) sexual. (of course this raises the whole thing of what 'sexual' is, who it's defined by etc..)
 
  
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