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Gas Prices and the "Oil Addiction"

 
 
ibis the being
15:34 / 25.04.06
The price of oil is becoming a hot news topic once again as gasoline prices in the US reach near Katrina levels. Today Bush has revealed his devastatingly off base plan of Relaxing Environmental Regulations to help ease the crunch. "Easing the environment rules will allow refiners greater flexibility in providing oil supplies since they will not have to use certain additives such as ethanol to meet clean air standards." How disappointing, to say the least.

Just three months ago, Bush used his SOTU address to talk about America's Addiction to Foreign Oil, and his proposed solutions at that time were rather different. "Tonight, I announce the Advanced Energy Initiative -- a 22 percent increase in clean energy research at the Department of Energy, to push for breakthroughs in two vital areas," Bush said. "To change how we power our homes and offices, we will invest more in zero-emission, coal-fired plants; revolutionary solar and wind technologies; and clean, safe nuclear energy.

"We will increase our research in better batteries for hybrid and electric cars, and in pollution-free cars that run on hydrogen. We will also fund additional research in cutting-edge methods of producing ethanol, not just from corn but from wood chips, stalks,or switch grass."


Here's a helpful Wikipedia entry on Oil price increases in 2004 and 2005. Also worth reading for a basic overview is the article on the Energy Policy Act of 2005.

This thread could go in a number of directions, but I wonder if we can think up ways to act that might have an effect on national policy. Not driving doesn't seem like enough. The problem is so complex, I wonder what (for example) we could suggest to our congressmen, if we were to write, that might be useful or persuasive?

I recently signed a Sierra Club petition asking Ted Kennedy to please support the Cape Wind offshore wind farm project. Wealthy landowners in the Cape & Islands area oppose it basically because it's an eyesore, but it has the potential to provide for 75% of the Cape & Islands electricity. That, of course, is just one small example of a possible real, environmentally sound energy solution.
 
 
sleazenation
17:05 / 25.04.06
Well, this is all part of a wider problem of energy policy - I notice that you didn't include nuclear power in your original abstract and post - while renewable energy sources sound great on paper, they cannot yet meet our current energy needs, let alone increased needs of the future - not that nuclear power can meet those needs alone either. In the UK, the nuclear power industry has been in slow decline for around 20 years, I believe the US is in a similar position... it will take a while to build new nuclear power facilities if we are going to do so at all...
 
 
Tryphena Absent
11:53 / 26.04.06
Oh come on- if we only used energy efficient appliances and bulbs, fitted proper plugs to those appliances, monitored our heating, triple glazed our windows, insulated our homes and every building in the country micro-generated (wind, solar, geothermal) with the ability to put surplus back into the National Grid and this was supplemented by wind farms and hydro-electric power then we could get our energy purely from renewable sources. Every estimate in the UK on renewable energy not supplying enough electricity is based on our current power consumption but jesus(!) we shouldn't even have access to incandescent lightbulbs anymore. That alone would significantly cut the energy consumed and it puts paid to the offices leaving their lights on at night argument because CFL's don't use more energy than normal when turning on.

That's what we should be doing because nuclear power still produces carbon and other forms of waste.

Raaaaarrggggghhhhhhh.
 
 
sleazenation
12:10 / 26.04.06
I agree that the simplist, and most easily achievable solution is to cut our consumption - but I just don't see it happening anytime soon- largely because of consumer resistance. Ironically it might well be that energy supply problems need to get a lot worse before consumers and manufacturers serious reconsider their use of resources...

I've not heard of carbon waste being produced by nuclear power plants outside of that used in its construction - can you provide further details?
 
 
Mistoffelees
14:22 / 26.04.06
Nina´s suggestions are easy and cheap to realise, but I´m pessimistic about the us citizens willingness to do it. I´m afraid, oil has to become more expensive to change the attitudes of many people.

Sweden has a very radical approach towards the crisis: in the next decades they want to decrease their oil use to zero. It sounds unbelievable, but they have already had large success and it looks as if they will achieve their goals. Maybe the rest of the heavily oil dependent nations should check out Sweden´s approach.

Wikipedia:
"After the 1973 oil crisis, the energy politics were determined to become less dependent on the import of petroleum. Since then, energy has been generated mostly from hydropower and nuclear power. Sweden wants to be independent of petroleum use by 2020. (...)

As of 2005, the use of renewables amounted to 26 per cent of the energy supply in Sweden, most important being hydropower and biomass. In 2003, electricity from hydropower accounted for 53 TWh and 40 per cent of the country's production of electricity with nuclear power delivering 65 TWh (49 per cent). At the same time, the use of biofuels, peat etc. produced 13 TWh of electricity."
 
 
ibis the being
19:10 / 26.04.06
Cutting consumption on the personal level seems like an inadequate answer. All the halogen bulbs in the world are not going to change US energy policies. Not driving cars is not a feasible short-term solution for most Americans, when our whole country is still set up to make the use of cars necessary. Most Americans don't live in cities or towns where there is a decent public transportation system. And as long as most Americans have to drive to and from work every single day, it's not going to have much of an impact if we all get energy-efficient washing machines and turn down the thermostat. The government and oil industry, working hand in hand, have vested interests in keeping our "oil addiction" going. Isn't this why Bush is responding to public outcry about the price of gas by making it easier for refineries to crank out more gasoline? Where's the funding for alternative energy (I don't care if it's windmills or nukes, as long as it's a feasible option)? Where's the long-term solution? Honestly I think the reduce/reuse/recycle meme is just another short-sighted pacifier and it's time to think a little bigger.
 
 
enrieb
19:16 / 26.04.06
I've not heard of carbon waste being produced by nuclear power plants outside of that used in its construction - can you provide further details?

They say that at the present rate of use, worldwide supplies of rich uranium ore will soon become exhausted, perhaps within the next decade. Nuclear power stations of the future will have to reply on second-grade ore, which requires huge amounts of conventional energy to refine it. For each tonne of poor-quality uranium, some 5,000 tonnes of granite that contains it will have to be mined, milled and then disposed of. This could rise to 10,000 tonnes if the quality deteriorates further. At some point, and it could happen soon, the nuclear industry will be emitting as much carbon dioxide from mining and treating its ore as it saves from the “clean” power it produces thanks to nuclear fission.

Source: The Times


"nuclear [...] energy sources release almost no carbon at all"

If only this were true... However, reactor fuel doesn't grow on trees - it needs to be dug out of the ground, refined, and transported very long distances. Also, nuclear reactors are extremely energy-intensive both to build and decommission, plus all the waste has to be transported, processed and stored.

The only decent full-lifecycle analysis of nuclear power I have seen indicates that in the best possible case, nuclear power emits (or rather, requires the emission of) roughly one-third as much CO2 as the equivalent gas-fired plant. However, this assumes the use of the very highest ore grades available, and these ores are in relatively short supply. As ore quality falls, CO2 emissions rise rapidly.

Source: www.realclimate.org

 
 
semioticrobotic
12:49 / 27.04.06
Not driving cars is not a feasible short-term solution for most Americans, when our whole country is still set up to make the use of cars necessary. Most Americans don't live in cities or towns where there is a decent public transportation system.

And that's just it. Petroleum is literally built into the very architecture of the American landscape. I think this is why rising gas prices make me nervous and worried: even if I wanted to cut back on my gasoline usage, I can only do so in very limited ways.

A friend of mine builds "greasel" vehicles, which run on vegetable oil. I'm amazed by the technology, but know almost nothing about its long-term feasibility.
 
 
matthew.
13:48 / 27.04.06
I read an interview with Donald Trump, of all people, and he was asked about the rising gas prices. He chortled and said that America is built on supply and demand. "Stop buying gas and the prices will go down." It's funny that Trump is thinking of the little guy for once, but his suggestion seems unrealistic, as Bryan pointed out above.

In my non-American city, public transportation is a nuisance, and yet still a possibility. The city is small enough to handle a city-wide exodus on buses, and those on the bus don't have to travel for two hours. It is possible to stop buying gas in my city.

Unfortunately, in my city, there is a strange car enthusiast population, who show up on our major street every Sunday after ten and simply drive up and down the street. It's called "cruise night," and everybody stares at everybody else's cars and then a small percent of this population does racing, usually ending in a fiery car crash.

It is feasible to have no automobiles other than buses in my city. It is impossible that it will happen. Too many people like their cars.

(Also, I live in the belly of the plains and yet people are driving around SUVs, designed for rugged outdoors and steep climbs and descents.)
 
 
semioticrobotic
11:31 / 01.11.07
So oil will probably reach US$100 per barrel today or tomorrow (given that yesterday the price of a barrel shot up more than $4), and according to this story, prices have reached the inflation-adjusted highs of the 1980s. Interestingly enough, however, both gasoline and heating oil stockpiles rose:

Supplies of gasoline rose last week by 1.3 million barrels. Analysts expected a 400,000-barrel decrease.

And inventories of distillates, which include heating oil and diesel fuel, rose by 800,000 barrels. Analysts had expected a 1 million barrel decrease.


Prices are all over the place, and I watched too much World Without Oil to not be slightly freaked out.
 
 
Fungus of Consciousness
10:16 / 07.02.08
Hi guys,
I hope there is still interest in this old post.

Energy, and it's scarcity, is a problem that really cannot be averted. The problem will continue to get worse and I'm extremely pessimistic about the future. I'm sorry to be so bleak but there are a few issues at work here, some of which I see as being:

The US has about 3% (or there abouts)of the world's population, but consumes around 25% of the world's energy. Clearly the US and it's inhabitants could become more energy efficient! The problem is that even if US consumers and industry did reduce their consumption, lets say by half (and this would be a MASSIVE reduction), this "slack" will be taken up over the coming decades in the emerging economies, particularly India and China. India and China's populations are becoming increasingly affluent, and given that these markets are rapidly growing, given the numbers of people involved, this creates a huge capacity for further growth. Therefore, theoretically, the more affluent they become, the more companies will invest in those countries, the more buying power those countries have. We are seeing the effects of this on the US economy to some extent. US consumers buy cheap goods from China, China grow by supplying the US, and more and more US money goes to China. The point of all this is that generally as people become more affluent, they generally consume more energy as they purchase, a toaster, a fridge, an air conditioner, a car a washing machine, a television etc, etc, etc. So it's hard to see that, even if the US and other high per capita energy users made good reductions in their energy use, we could actually reduce our worldwide energy consumption.

In this post I'll address nuclear power.

Nuclear is a technology I used to be all for, but I'm starting to swing against its use as it creates a number of issues.

1) It is a myth that Nuclear power is carbon free - A lot of energy is used in the extraction of the uranium required to produce power. Furthermore, given that uranium is far less plentiful than coal, and deposits are less widespread, unless you site your power station near a deposit, chances are you will have to transport the uranium a long way to the power station, consuming a lot of energy, and burning a lot of hydrocarbons in the process. Admittedly you will produce less carbon dioxide than you might by burning fossil fuels, but it is most definitely not carbon neutral.

2) It actually isn't very cost effective - Once you factor in building costs, fuel costs, disposal of spent fuel, running costs and safety and security costs the financial advantage over fossil generation is negligible. But the big cost is in shut down. For example Calder Hall in Cumbria, England was opened in 1956, it ran for 50 years. It is estimated that it will take between 100 and 110 years to shut down an remediate the site! Some analysts predict that it will cost more to shut down the site than it ever made in energy sales (although the energy was sold at bargain basement prices). Ouch! You also have to ask why more than a few countries didn't invest in a big way in nuclear in the first place. With a few notable exceptions, the countries that invested in nuclear in the 50's, 60's, and 70's did so to provide fissile material to their nuclear weapons programs. They just happened to be able to offset the costs by selling the resultant energy. Energy production was rarely the motivating factor in building the reactors in the first place. There is evidence that Japan in particular invested in nuclear to become a "proxy" nuclear weapons state. Many analysts believe that Japan could screw together a nuclear device in a matter of months if the need arose. Don't you think that if nuclear power really WAS cheap more countries wouldn't have invested in it as a means of power generaion? The rising cost of fossil fuels will make nuclear power more attractive again but even with oil at or near $100 a barrel, nuclear power is still considered pretty expensive.

3) Proliferation - The more nuclear reactors there are generating power around the world, the more opportunity there is for terrorist, criminal or religious groups, not to mention "rogue states", to get their hands on nuclear material.

4) Storage of spent fuel - Nuclear fuel can remain radioactively dangerous for 100,000 years. A long time! Where do you put it and how do you put there in such a way that you can guarantee that it won't leak into the environment for 100,000 years?

5) Safety & security - Anyone want a repeat of Chernobyl in their neighbourhood? Didn't think so! Safety & security are of concern not only at the generation site, but also along the transportation route and at the storage facilities.

6) Uranium reserves - Given that less than 7% of the world's energy production in 1998 (source: US Geological Survey - http://energy.cr.usgs.gov/energy/stats_ctry/Stat1.html#WProduction) was from nuclear, if we increased this by a large proportion we would soon be facing the problem of "peak uranium". Also, given that these figures are from 1998, and that there hasn't been a great investment in new nuclear power plants, it is safe to say that the proportion of energy produced in 2008 is actually lower than in 1998 given China and India's huge investment in power generation. This investment has almost invariably been in fossil powered stations (coal, gas, oil).

While a huge worldwide investment in nuclear power generation might seem like an answer to our energy woes, at best it will delay the inevitable energy crisis for a few decades. At worse we will have an ecological and security nightmare on our hands. Furthermore, nuclear power assumes that economies ill have the money to maintain and run them in a safe way. If the world economy falters, we may well be sitting on a truck full of ticking time bombs. Not a world I'd lie to live in!
 
 
The Idol Rich
11:06 / 07.02.08
As far as I can see the future looks pretty bleak on this issue. Long term oil prices are only going one way and that is going to cause problems for everybody. Only when these problems get severe enough will the political will materialise to do something about it. The question is how severe things will have to get and whether, when that point is reached, there will still be time to sort things out. I guess it's possible that there will be but I've no more reason to believe that than that there won't be. If you see what I mean.
 
 
Fungus of Consciousness
11:19 / 07.02.08
Those are my fears entirely! I couldn't have summed it up better.
 
 
Fungus of Consciousness
12:36 / 09.02.08
I think a large part of the issue is money (surprise, surprise). It is still extremely cost effective to burn hydrocarbons in their various forms. Don't believe this rubbish about carbon sequestration which is all very good until the next geological event. The carbon sequestration lobby is closely linked to the coal lobby and the oil lobby - big coal can get rid of its carbon and big oil has a space to sell. At the end of the day energy is energy and power generation is all about the release of stored energy. If we remember this, even if we discovered a completely clean "fusion" power, energy would still be released into the environment.

A large problem is that, on a worldwide basis, and certainly in the "west", we actually receive less energy from our food than was expended in it's production. This is suicide! Imagine any animal that expended more energy hunting down it's food than the food yielded. It would slowly (or quickly) starve. Oil has provided a means for us to expend a lot of energy cheaply in producing food. In other words, at the moment, the sell price of food is worth more to the producer than the energy he or she invested in its production. Think of the benefits hydrocarbons confer to the farmer. The farmer gets up in the morning and starts their tractor. They take the tractor out and spray hydrocarbon based pesticides onto their crop. In the afternoon the farmer then ploughs nitrates based fertilizers derived from hydrocarbons into the soil. After the crop has grown the farmer then has to harvest their crop. In all likelihood their crop is harvested using a diesel or other hydrocarbon powered harvesting tool or device. The crop is then threshed, processed or otherwise sorted, again using some sort of hydrocarbon either directly or from the local power plant. The produce is then sent to a distribution point, either by road or rail. The food is then either processed or packaged and sent off via road or rail to be either sold or processed again. Eventually the product gets to the shop! Chances are YOU got to the shop via a method other than that provided by the carriage of your two feet. Oh and did I mention that the product had to be packaged, have a label printed and have some dude on a low wage haul it from the loading dock and onto the shelf?

Jared Diamond in his book Collapse estimates that the average American dinner travels over 1000 miles before you eat it. Think of the energy! Most of the world uses these techniques to produce food. So therefore we are running on an energy deficit. The only way we've been able to sustain this deficit is via the release of massive amounts of energy available in hydrocarbons. Furthermore, alternative energies can't really fill this breach on a practical level. Ever tried to create plastics out of wind? Ever tried to sail a truck full of spuds to market?

Richard Heinberg in his book "the Party's Over" puts forward a well reasoned argument even if we devoted all of the available arable land to food production we still wouldn't have enough to to feed more than 1 billion people without the use of hydrocarbons. You may ask, what about the oceans? Worldwide total yield in terms of food fro the ocean has dropped off since the late 80's. Clearly the oceans are not inexhaustible.

So what does the future hold? If we don't discover some sort if alternative energy source then the future holds an "overshoot" of our environment.

"Overshoot" is a fairly simple concept. It holds that any species will continue to grow in numbers until it's environment cannot sustain more of its numbers at which point it has overshot it's environment's ability to sustain it. At the point of overshoot a species total number will contract. As it stands, for humans, our environment is our entire planet. We are currently consuming more energy than is fed into the earth via sunlight or, more correctly, our ability to capture sunlight. As soon as our hydrocarbon energy sources run out, or start to diminish so that the cost of energy outweighs the cost price of the resultant product, we will see energy wars. Are we seeing them already? It's a simple investment on return calculation. To give an idea on how much energy is in hydrocarbons consider this:

Imagine a 1500kg car travelling at 110km/h. Imagine you put a wall up in front of this car. The car does not slow, it hits the wall which does not yield, buckle, flex or break in anyway. Imagine the energy released in in the collision! Pretty huge! Now take one hand and cup it. Fill it with water. What you can hold in your cupped hand in petroleum, or gasoline is the approximate equivalent energy of a 1500kg car hitting an immovable wall at 110km/h. There is a LOT of energy stored up in hydrocarbons.

There is no way to sustain 6 billion people on earth without hydrocarbons..... or some other unknown energy source. Including nuclear.

Grim as it is, that's the way it is!
 
 
elene
17:14 / 09.02.08
even if we discovered a completely clean "fusion" power, energy would still be released into the environment. I don’t understand, why do you think that’s a problem, Fungus?

we actually receive less energy from our food than was expended in it's production. This is suicide! No, it’s not. Imagine we possessed that hypothetical, completely clean source of limitless energy. We would still need to eat, wouldn’t we?

There is no way to sustain 6 billion people on earth without hydrocarbons..... or some other unknown energy source. There are a great many known alternative sources of energy. Certainly, all are less convenient than oil, but that does not mean they are necessarily inadequate to support a population of 6 billion people. You have not proved that. Even if you could prove it, it’s clear that there is some finite population limit. So, whenever we exceed that limit the surplus population will die. Yes, I suppose that is grim, but, so what? It’s inevitable.

Am I missing something?
 
 
Fungus of Consciousness
06:08 / 10.02.08
You're probably not missing anything but you are relying on an as yet undiscovered source of energy to keep us all alive. I'm not stating that this cannot be discovered, but as we aren't in possession of that knowledge yet the thesis stands. It is like saying that it is impossible to travel to Alpha Centauri. At the moment it is impossible. That's not to say it will never be done. You can't grow hypothetical food. Even if you did, it wouldn't be very satisfying!

As for "so what? It’s inevitable." I'm not sure you really grasp the gravity of the situation! If you did you wouldn't be so trite!

As for analysis of population sustainability see:

"The Party's over" Richard Heinlein
"Collapse" Jared Diamond
"Resources and Man" M. King Hubbert
"Environment, development and sustainability" Hopfenburg, Russell & Pimentel.

To be honest I could provide a list as long a your arm. The facts aren't really in dispute. If you would like further references (and there are PLENTY) please let me know.
 
 
Saturn's nod
07:56 / 10.02.08
Sorry this is a little hasty, but thought it better to contribute than not at all!

From the permaculture perspective - "Harvest only sunlight" is the mnemonic that's relevant, for those of you who haven't studied it. This planet has a profitable surplus of sunlight, and it also produces geothermal energy. The planet is able to radiate heat, although the atmosphere has recently been altered to make that more difficult. If we made planetary management our priority, I believe it could be made to work.

I don't see a point in despair - as I see it, as long as there is ingenuity there is hope. I prefer to live as an activist heading for a brighter more secure future for everyone. So my attitude to this stuff is orientated towards seeing what can be done now, what can be done soon, and knowing that it will look a little different when that's been done.

There are always positive steps. Joanna Macy's 'Work that reconnects' is good psychological tech for converting emotions of despair and fear into activism - it's great stuff and I highly recommend it. I draw a lot on my spiritual practice in order to keep myself orientated towards facing the truth and to stay active and functional.

Peter, you're linking to the kinds of books and sources I was weaned and learned to read from, when I was being brought up by my self-sufficiency-aiming parents on their smallholding. I remember people talking about peak oil and energy sources before I could walk. So, I know I can't wean all of us off oil right away, but I can reduce my dependence on fossil fuels and start living in ways that are closer to sunlight.

You wrote:
There is no way to sustain 6 billion people on earth without hydrocarbons..... or some other unknown energy source.

That's your opinion, and you have not show the calculations to demonstrate it's the case. From my own studies in ecology as a undergraduate and since I've concluded differently. Those people are at present being fed through a fossil-oil-fueled large scale intensive agriculture, but sustainable management practices with energy accounting attempts are not yet fully implemented, and could certainly feed more of us than they are doing at the moment. It's a challenge, it's a call to adventure - how can we manage this planet we're all on a little better than we are doing at present?
 
 
Fungus of Consciousness
09:01 / 10.02.08
AFJ - Agree 100% that activism and personal change is the key if we are to survive. Thanks for your post, it is a very valid point. Why, for example, are incandescent light bulbs still legal for example, and what are we all doing to change that? Good stuff and thanks again!

With regards to an actual formula about sustainable populations on Earth, well obviously I don't have that formula stored in my head! Furthermore I'm not sure a definitive formula actually exists. But I will hunt for such a thing as I know that there have been a lot of books written, if not on the subject itself, then certainly as part of a wider argument that address the issue. A good starting point might be "Who will feed China?" by Lester Brown. I guess we have to also look at, the admittedly anecdotal, evidence of how many people were sustained on Earth before the widespead utilization of oil as an energy source. In the 10,000 or so years up until industrialisation world population STEADILY rose to about 1.6 billion people. Since the late 1800's the population of Earth has risen to well over 6 billion. Is this a coincidence? And if we remove oil from the equation is it sustainable. Please also bare in mind that peak oil is happening NOW. So we have a VERY narrow window of time to address this issue - no more than 20 years at best.

A funny story about self sufficiency. I am an Australian who has married a Canadian. I went to visit the in laws for the first time on the outskirts of Vancouver. My mother in law is a very devoted and observant Catholic. My father in law is a recently retired career parole officer. Anyway I toured their property which is geared toward sustainability and self sufficiency. It is quite impressive what can be done with little pain. Anyway I was talking to my father in law who said "you know, there are some things you need to buy, such as energy, but you can reduce your reliance upon it. Then there are things you can grow. Food, clothing and analgesia." Analgesia? "How do you mean" He then pointed me toward a large stand of opium poppies! I was absolutely dumbfounded! These are deadset the biggest, healthiest poppies, and hadn't even seen them in amongst the rest of the many plants that are growing.

"Hey" said my father in law "You never can be to sure!"
 
 
Fungus of Consciousness
09:13 / 10.02.08
Also AFJ - You are obviously more quite qualified to comment on this issue than me. Could you put forward your case for it being sustainable to feed 6 billion people without the benefit of oil? Like I said, I'm not a qualified ecologist so I'd be interested on your views on this. Is there something fundamental we're not looking at? Is my understanding of the issue faulty? I've read a lot of books on the issue but I also accept that often a lot of books are written on one faulty concept that is perpetuated, and once this concept is debunked the whole "movement" falls down.

Thanks!
 
 
elene
11:12 / 10.02.08
you are relying on an as yet undiscovered source of energy to keep us all alive.

No, I'm not. Please read my previous post again, completely. It's not very long.

I've read three of your references, and am quite sure I can remember that arguments of two of them, Diamond and Heinlein. Neither prove, or try to prove, that as oil production declines, population will too. Heinlein states the obvious, that if we do nothing as oil production declines, then population must. But we obviously won't do nothing. You say, in a later post,

With regards to an actual formula about sustainable populations on Earth, well obviously I don't have that formula stored in my head! Furthermore I'm not sure a definitive formula actually exists.

Certainly, no such formula exists. There are far too many unknowns.
 
 
Saturn's nod
14:08 / 10.02.08
Could you put forward your case for it being sustainable to feed 6 billion people without the benefit of oil?

I did a lot of reading about agricultural practices and yield comparisons from different cultivation systems; I remember a couple of papers for example showing that the yield of some intensive pesticide/herbicide treated crops only exceeded traditional/organic methods in a less than 5 year window and had been recorded as declining subsequently.

Comparison of yields from hand-cultivated garden-scale efforts often exceeds that of field-scale crops if I remember correctly. Human effort can make great use of complex spaces and companion planting, layers of plants at different heights e.g. on trellises, forest gardening and so on, where machinery couldn't access.

Efficient transport and information systems can maintain genetic variation and keep that genetic variety moving to places where it can generate novel hybrids; seeds, cuttings and knowledge can move using less oil rather than heavy bulk substances?

A lot of the most oil-energy intensive inputs are counterproductive to longer term ecological health e.g. destroying beneficical fungal mycelia; heavy pest or disease control instead of genetic variation in the crop (e.g., see rice blast fungus trials with trad planting methods); soil compression and soil structure disturbance from heavy machinery.

Hedges need to be removed for large scale agriculture but can themselves be sources of food and other important stuff for humans, as well as playing a role in stabilising beneficial fungal mycelia that traffic nutrients such as phosphorus over wide growing areas.

Fresh water is a huge world energy issue and a lot of things could be done about that problem, without using fossil fuel to maintain the water supply.

David Holmgren recommends we aim for using fossil energy only to set up future sustainable systems - good idea - how would that change the way we are using it at the moment?

I'm in the UK and although it's ecologically nutrient rich and stable/predictable climate, it's also one of the most densely populated parts of the world. There's a lot of land unused, and a lot of useful crops can grow on that marginal and waste ground; also animals can be raised for human use on marginal, seasonally flooded, forests, and waste ground, instead of on potentially prime food-crop land as happens some of the time at present.

It's not so much that I can demonstrate we can definitely feed so many people, as that I know the country I am most familiar with could get a lot closer to the goal. I'm not massively bothered about individualistic solutions where I could plan to be okay because I have food if I would then have to fight off beggars and raiders. I want stable and prosperous societies where everyone has food - it's less hassle for me, and I'm lazy enough to want world peace.
 
 
Fungus of Consciousness
23:22 / 10.02.08
AFJ - Thanks for your response, great post!

Can I ask why these techniques aren't in widespread utility? Generally there will be a reason why things aren't being done a certain way (usually cost). Is it more expensive to farm in this way. Is it more labour intensive thereby while being high yieled on a per acre basis, it is low yield on a labour or cost basis? Are there reliability issues? There has to be a reason why these techniques aren't being used on an "industrial" level. I can would think that big "agribusinesses", that have all but taken over the farming sector from small freehold farmers in Australia, would be very keen to exploit any productive advantages available that made good business sense.

Thanks again.

Cheers
 
 
Saturn's nod
05:50 / 11.02.08
Btw re: filament bulbs: they are still necessary at present for a minority of applications. E.g., I'm not sure that anyone has yet made compact fluorescent sewing machine bulbs, or similar integral lamps for other machinery. Also, people with certain kinds of disabilities are unable to tolerate the light from fluorescent bulbs at all. I'd rather architects and interior designers started using natural light, and more people helped each other to make dependence on natural light a routine priority! This from someone whose house lightbulbs are all compact fluorescent.

I think slow adoption of ecologically sound and future-secure food supply mechanisms can be accounted for in a number of ways: all the factors you name come into it. 'Good business sense' looks different in the light of a secure future!

The 'green revolution' - plantsci term for the invention of NPK fertilisers and the advent of agribusiness as we know it today - was hailed as 'the' great scientific breakthrough necessary to feed the planet. But, the agribusiness machine and the marketing investments keeping it ticking over are pointing in one direction: artificial additions to land, increasing the scale of machinery, decreasing staff.

A lot of the strategies and innovations I'm in favour of point in the opposite direction. They take more human input, they demand more design effort, they are more local and particular. They're not as convenient or as easy to find, they don't seem as reliable from the outset as e.g., the (heavily promoted) Roundup package, even though they might be cheaper and more beneficial in the long term.

Changing the way things are done has a finanacial and emotional investment cost. If you have a huge loan for large farm machinery, it's harder to consider ways of working that are going that make that machinery irrelevant. It's harder to recognize research that indicates the counterproductive effects of doing things the way you are at the moment. When profit margins are thin and growers are under pressure, it's harder for people to take the necessary cognitive steps away to reconsider their whole approach.

There are structural factors in wider society. It has been known for a long time in ecology circles that one action - removing subsidies with detrimental environmental effects (subsidies to businesses who pollute, and to road and car manufacture and so on) - would do a lot to improve the situation we're in for the long term. But as I understand it such moves are politically difficult because they can be seen as undermining industry and its capitalists.

Finance affects the way everything gets done, particularly when the profit margins are small. As an example, I know it would be feasible to have onsite rainwater catchment and possibly even greywater treatment in lots of places that don't have it at present, but the payoff is too far in the future for a lot of people to be able to consider it. It is only in the last two years that I have come across any discourse about large scale changes in financial investment strategies to aim for a secure future. Most people in business are at the mercy of their financial suppliers.

Other factors have to do with social politics: in the UK for example the planning permission for housing in the rural areas can make it really hard for farms to buck the trend of the last century and increase staff density, e.g. in order to change strategies or to do more garden-scale cultivation. If your staff have to live in a town and drive halfway across the county to work, they're less likely to want to, but rural accomodation can be difficult to find. At present, even at $100 a barrel, oil is still cheaper than human labour, especially in countries where national insurance/social security/workers rights are the responsibility of the employer.

These are all problems of oil addiction, and solving them I think requires interventions at every level. Because oil has been so cheap and plentiful for the last century, the ways in which societies do things assume its continued supply and all of those need to be changed.

In spite of the difficulties there are lots of people who are making the necessary changes. One example: community supported agriculture gives farmers and growers secure markets to change strategy. It helps get more people involved in food production: every person who is buying food straight from the grower has made a massive contribution to the turnaround by getting used to unprocessed food.

I think the primary challenge is consciousness-raising. When there are enough humans who know about the problems and who are capable of informing themselves and others about possible about ways forward, we can create the changes we need. But it is a massive change that is required. As I see it, that change is political and social as much as anything, because so many technical fixes already exist. I think we need an increasing proportion of people engaged in social and political discourse and aimed at the kind of revolution that will build a secure society for the future.

Further reading? H. and E. Odum's 'A prosperous way down' has some ideas - they are keen on population control and I'm not totally down with their fondness for large scale hydro, but at least they are thinking about collective strategies(Co-author's summary). Also, have you come across David Holmgren's 'Permaculture: principles and pathways beyond sustainability'? (Holmgren's Australian so a lot of his more location-specific thinking has to do with Australian ecology).
 
 
Saturn's nod
06:34 / 11.02.08
(Did you see Alex Steffen's Worldchanging post yesterday about the sustainability implications of global peak population? I think it has some good points about the design specs for our green future. The attention conservation version: assuming demographers are right, we want a planetary management system for 9B people by mid next century and between 8 and 6 B after that.)
 
 
The Idol Rich
07:42 / 13.02.08
George Monbiot mentioned peak oil in this article yesterday. He describes the IEA as “backtracking” from their previously optimistic predictions and I get the feeling that there is a gathering consensus (maybe consensus is too strong but at least the idea is gaining some currency) in the mainstream that oil production cannot simply be increased at will.
 
 
Fungus of Consciousness
21:08 / 13.02.08
During the 80's OPEC put in place a system that pegged a member county's production to their stated reserves. I'll hunt down an interesting set of figures I've seen, but basically all of the OPEC member nation's stated reserves jumped pretty much overnight! These (presumably inflated) reserves are what have become the standard numbers when speaking about world reserves. As I heard it quoted "There isn't an oil policeman going around with a dipstick checking reserves".

I believe that we have either peaked or are due to do so in no more than a decade.
 
 
The Idol Rich
08:10 / 14.02.08
These (presumably inflated) reserves are what have become the standard numbers when speaking about world reserves.

Yeah, this is true. Of course it's difficult for anyone to go and get a more realistic measurement but it seems foolish on such an important issue to rely on figures compiled by someone who has a clear incentive to inflate them. That leaves us in the situation where it is not unreasonable to assume that OPEC countries do not have the reserves that they claim and the non-OPEC countries appear to be unable to increase their production in line with predictions made by analysts. Like I said, it's looks bleak. Or to put it another way, matters will surely come to a head sooner rather than later.
 
  
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