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Coping with casual racism from a family member

 
 
Mirror
17:34 / 23.04.06
Hi, folks,

I need some ideas of how to cope with a situation, because I'm fresh out.

My in-laws are currently in town, and I'm finding myself completely unable to respond coherently to the homophobia and racism that they express in casual conversation. At this point I think I've tried everything, from subtle hints that I don't think such ideas have any rational foundation to direct confrontation (although I've shied clear of calling my mother-in-law a racist to her face) and none of it seems to make a bit of difference. I've tried explaining how uncomfortable I feel with them making the kind of generalizations that they're prone to - this gets me written off as being thin-skinned. I've tried arguing with their premises, and even when I "win" their ultimate response is that while I may be right in principle, their perspective is correct in practice.

It's to the point where I find it almost impossible to have a conversation with them. I fully recognize that it's beyond my or anyone else's ability to change their minds... so how do I keep from going out of mine? For the sake of my wife, I'd like to be able to spend a day with them without conversation devolving into an argument, but I find it really hard to just let such things pass.

Today, my solution is that I'm hiding in my office working on homework. This keeps me out of direct confrontation, but the fact that I have to do so to keep from causing a scene is really hard.
 
 
diz
18:09 / 23.04.06
I usually try to drown my discomfort with alcohol in these sorts of situations.
 
 
Jack Fear
18:10 / 23.04.06
For the makings of a peaceful day, you do not need to change anybody's mind. You just need for the conversation to Not Go There.

You're not going to win this war. You're going to have to be a conscientious objector.

So simply refuse to engage. Don't make a big show of it: Don't say, "You know, I'm not going to talk to you about this with you." Just change the subject. Pointedly.

Cultivate a deep and abiding interest in professional sports, and whenever dad-in-law starts grumbling about those fuckin Mexicans come over here don't even learn the language, break in with a loud, cheerful, non-sequitur HOW 'BOUT THOSE RED SOX, HUH? Man, did you see that diving catch that Stern made in the second game against Tampa Bay? What the heck is Theo thinking sending him back to Pawtucket? Sure, Coco's gonna be off the DL soon, but Stern's got the makings of a Gold Glove winner—he just needs the playing time. If he can just bring his average up...

Repeat as necessary. It sends a message.

Failing that, whenever the hot-button topics come up, just grab a newspaper or a magazine and remove yourself from the conversation, refusing to be drawn in. Again, sending a message without overtly registering disapproval.

And ask yourself why the conversation keeps turning to race and sexuality in the first place. If these folks know they can get a rise out of you by broaching the subject, then that may be reward enough in itself. Your very discomfort is a positive reinforcement to them.
 
 
Seth
18:12 / 23.04.06
Difficult situation, and I know what it’s like from personal experience.

Have you tried expressing concern for the possible situations they might find themselves in through expressing those thoughts in public? For example, casually expressed homophobic or racist language in a pub or restaurant, or even in a less obviously social situation, could see them on the receiving end from a police visit stemming from their being reported for hate crime (easy to imagine: someone overhears and reacts, or they make an assumption about a friend or associate’s sexual preference or ethnicity). If that were well handled it could lead into a discussion of the potential legal consequences of such expressed opinions and the justification behind such police action. That’s the way I often handle it, but then I have more opportunity to handle it in that manner than most.

If that fails use sigils. Or a servitor.
 
 
Seth
18:17 / 23.04.06
Although I notice you are USA based. Don't know how your cops would handle such a matter, and ours don't always have a stellar track record. But I know how these things should be handled and I try to reinforce it when I'm dealing with incidents.
 
 
Spaniel
18:20 / 23.04.06
I think Jack's pretty much on the money both in terms of the tactics you should employ and in his assessment of the situation, but, just wondering, do they disapprove of your relationship with their daughter? Could they be expressing their abhorrent views in order to wind you up?

Also, have you tried getting your partner on board - showing a united front, so to speak. If my parents went on like that I know I'd bloody well say something.
 
 
Mirror
20:08 / 23.04.06
Oh, my wife's certainly on board, and she gets as frustrated as I do at the situation. In a lot of ways, she has it worse because she not only has to deal with the racism and homophobia, but also has to cope with them constantly badgering her about religion (they're conservative Christians with a bit of an attitude - and she's a Buddhist.)

Even as I'm sitting here, I'm catching snippets of a political discussion with her folks talking about "hispanics and poor people." I don't even want to hear what the rest of the conversation is about.

It's not that they simply disapprove of me or my politics; they disapprove of her religion and politics as well. I do like the idea of pointedly changing the subject, although it seems a bit passive-aggressive. Seeing that the direct approach hasn't really succeeded, though, maybe passive-aggressive is worth a shot. I'm just afraid I'm not very good at it - it runs counter to my character.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
20:11 / 23.04.06
I'm just afraid I'm not very good at it

Practice makes perfect, Mirror.

Seriously, it sounds like the best option. And the best of luck with it- I fucking hate situations like you're describing.
 
 
julius has no imagination
20:18 / 23.04.06
I've got to agree with what Jack and others say - try to ignore it and swallow your objections.

Of course, if it's your in-laws that's a bit different and possibly more difficult. But my experience is of my grandmother doing it. My parents are quite good at ignoring it; my sister and I sometimes have trouble. My nan's main form of hate is antisemitism (occasionally straying into anti-Russian and/or homophobic statements), which is not even surprising for someone born in Germany in the early 1930s. You can't win the argument. At least in my experience, when you point out people's prejudices it'll always go something like "no, of course I shouldn't generalise... but honestly, those damn Jews, they're all the same!" (possibly augmented with "I've seen so much in my life, and they're all the same!").

Heh... I'm almost doing the same thing here, overgeneralising ("those damn racists, they're all the same!" or something). So yeah, don't just give up immediately, but try to recognise when you're up against an impossible task, and then remove yourself from the conversation or change the subject (though personally, I'd rather listen to neofascists spouting homophobic, antisemitic propaganda than discuss, say, premier league football. But maybe that's just me).
 
 
Mirror
21:30 / 23.04.06
I think the hardest thing about this whole situation for me is that my in-laws are otherwise nice people. They're genuinely caring, and my father-in-law in particular is one of the most ethical people I know. It's extremely difficult to reconcile their otherwise exemplary behavior with some of the stuff that comes out of their mouths.

And really, they must feel the same way about me - they know that I'm a responsible, intelligent individual, but think that my politics are deeply misguided and some of my views downright immoral. So, I can't just write them off, as would be easiest course of action. It's not even that they're aggressively racist and homophobic - they're thoughtlessly so, as if it were the natural default position.
 
 
Grey Cell
22:00 / 23.04.06
(...) It's not even that they're aggressively racist and homophobic - they're thoughtlessly so, as if it were the natural default position.

You posted this just after I'd finished writing my reply, but it pretty much underlines what I was going to say.

I often encounter similar attitudes in many people of roughly the same age and social position as my parents. Even more so than in younger people, among whom racism also seems to be getting more prevalent again these days, it seems to boil down to a strong distrust of anything new and strange that may threaten their comfortable status quo, constantly whipped up by the more sensationalist news sources and populist politicians.
Reasonable arguments are pretty much useless against that, especially since they will/can often no longer make the effort go out there and see for themselves how things are. There Be Dragons!

Just wondering - how many homosexuals and foreigners do your parents actually know? My own family has no problem with its homosexual members, but the older generation's typical attitude toward immigrants is that they should all be sent back right away and without exception. Except for the few they know personally, because those are decent people... Pointing out the fallacy in that usually cuts off the stream of racist bile, at least until the next occasion.

Having lived in one of the most unpleasant parts of the capital for four years, I have some personal experience I can fall back on. So I can get through to them on occasion — I'm living proof that the streets there still aren't the war zone the media portray them as (though all in all I don't regret that I'm out of there.)

But mostly I agree with the previous posters. The best thing you can do in this situation is simply tune it out, and try to distract them with something else. Make it very clear that you're actively refusing to engage in futile discussions.
When they don't get the hint, some mild and very subtle sarcasm may also help, depending on how well your in-laws would handle that — you'll know them better than us 'lithers.

though personally, I'd rather listen to neofascists spouting homophobic, antisemitic propaganda than discuss, say, premier league football. But maybe that's just me.

Well, there's some of fun to be had with them, if you have the time and nerve to spare and don't mind playing dirty. So far I still haven't met a fascist or a Jehovah's Witness I couldn't whip into a frenzy. It's like trolling web boards, but for a good cause
 
 
redtara
01:06 / 24.04.06
Lovely kind people can be bigots and fools.

You will not open thier minds, it is not your job to educate them. Neither is it apropriate in these circumstances to engage in tense political debate.

However, you owe it to yourself and your convicions to stand up and be counted. Challenge what is said on face value. The assumptions of snobs and racists are generally indefensible so get them to defend the statments rather than the general possition. You don't have to take offense, t.v.-defense-attorney-style. Plainly and calmly stating 'that's not true' or 'how do you know that?' or 'Have you met many people like this, I know I havn't'.You will never open thier minds one night over dinner, but maybe in a decade after they have had this off thier kids and grandkids and the woman at the bus stop and that guy in the queue...who knows...

After years of engaging my ex-inlaws they are now careful about what words they choose in front of me. I have at least got them to find nonoffensive terms for people from cultures other than thier own (Welsh). I now have younger children with a mixed race man. I have no doubt that ten years ago this would have freaked them out. Today I know that if this is still the case they know better than to show any of that to me or any of my kids. Thier oppinions probably haven't changed much, but I feel like I've at least challenged thier right to spout lazy racial drivel just to have something to say. It's a start.
 
 
Spaniel
09:20 / 24.04.06
The problem is some of their views are almost certainly predicated on religious conviction - their homophobia, for example - and there's almost no way you can argue with someone who thinks homosexuality is a sin as their position is beyond rational interrogation.
 
 
Jub
10:09 / 24.04.06
it's still fun though.
 
 
Spaniel
11:22 / 24.04.06
If you're into banging your head against a brick wall then, yes, I suppose it is.
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
15:12 / 24.04.06
For the makings of a peaceful day, you do not need to change anybody's mind. You just need for the conversation to Not Go There

I concur. I have a similar problem with my grandparents. They’re too stubborn to ever even consider changing their mind, and getting into a debate that will never help in any way is futile. I do my best to simply ignore anything ugly they say in private, and to quickly force a change in subject in public. But I know it isn’t easy. My sister apparently had a rather uncomfortable incident involving a restaurant and my grandfather talking about how he found interracial relationships “wrong”. She managed to steer him off-topic some how, but I know personally I probably wouldn’t have been able to keep my cool, and either a heated argument would have commenced or I simply would have stormed off. That would have been bad.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
16:06 / 24.04.06
Here's a little trick Mirror. Place your in-laws in some kind of danger. Killer pigs attacking them in an enclosed place or a bomb in their home that will go off in 2 minutes. Then have gay people and whichever race they keep picking on come in and defeat the pigs or disarm the bombs. A similar plan helped to cure Homer Simpson of his homophobia in the Simpsons episode with John Waters.
 
 
ibis the being
16:39 / 24.04.06
I think the hardest thing about this whole situation for me is that my in-laws are otherwise nice people. They're genuinely caring, and my father-in-law in particular is one of the most ethical people I know. It's extremely difficult to reconcile their otherwise exemplary behavior with some of the stuff that comes out of their mouths.

This is exactly how I feel about my dad and stepmom. They have so many wonderful qualities. They're loving, generous, scrupulously honest, friendly, funloving... oh, and I find their religious and political views repellent. And I think that they would say virtually the same thing about my SO and I.

My SO and I (extremely like-minded on religious & political topics) lived with them for a summer. At first the four of us would argue about Christianity, Bush, Iraq, etc. etc. and it never went anywhere. Not a one of us was going to change our minds. SO & I found it upsetting, Dad & Stepmom just found it entertaining... but because they acknowledged we were getting upset, we just put a halt to the arguments. Now we generally don't talk about any of the topics that we'd argue over, though we do sometimes josh each other a bit over some tidbit of news. I think once you realize your opposing points of view are never going to sway each other, it's time to just call a ceasefire.

You may want to explicitly tell your in-laws, I love you guys and I find it too upsetting to talk about _____ subject(s) because I don't enjoy arguing with you... I'd like us just to talk about other things. After making that statement you don't have to revisit the issue.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
16:42 / 24.04.06
You may want to explicitly tell your in-laws, I love you guys and I find it too upsetting to talk about _____ subject(s) because I don't enjoy arguing with you... I'd like us just to talk about other things.
Well, yeah maybe. If the killer pigs and bomb plan don't work out anyway.
 
 
sibyline, beating Qalyn to a Q
16:50 / 24.04.06
i've encountered this situation on both sides, especially when i had a jewish boyfriend. my filipino father has a tendency to make crass remarks about jews and his mother wasn't terribly into me not being not just non-jewish but also half-asian.

i only heard about her comments second-hand until she said over dinner once, "you know the thing about you is that no one would know that you're asian. you just look like a regular white person," clearly implying that she thinks this is a good thing.

my ex and i talked about it and decided that we either needed to accept the situation or do something about it that would actually have an effect. we knew that both our families loved us dearly, and that they really cared about having us in their lives.

so i talked to my dad and he talked to his mom. i told my dad that he can't talk about jewish people as a group, even if it's to say, "oh, those jews, they're so good at money." and he spoke to his mom. we both said that we expected the racist comments to stop, and that we wouldn't be able to see them unless they did, and if they apologize if they inadvertently say the wrong thing.

this was a really hard tough love measure for both of us but it worked, maybe a little bit too well. his mom made a big effort to be nice to me, and my dad even had dinner with my ex, unbeknownst to me, and tried to convince him to revive our relationship when we broke up (crazy dad!).

dunno if that would work in your situation, but i've found that the only thing that works with my parents is if i tell them clearly what the effect is if they do something i really don't like. it often means not being able to talk to them for a little while as they're swallowing their pride, which is tough, but it's worked so far. but my parents are pretty flexible as far as parents go, so i'm not sure if this approach would work with your wife's parents.
 
 
alas
19:25 / 24.04.06
If your gf is willing to go sybiline's route, her idea sounds like it might be the only way this stuff will actually have a chance of stopping. I have relatives who occasionally let something like this slip, but nothing as continuous as what you're experiencing. However, my sis is a fundamentalist Christian who does occasionally send me anti-gay marriage leaflets, and at one point a really horrible book about why Christianity is right and everything else is wrong (and written in a really yucky style that I found just insulting). Additionally, my parents were deeply hurt, angry, and said some very hurtful things around the time of my wedding due to my refusal to have Christian ceremony, and my not making that clear to them ahead of time.

And I so I did something similar with both of them, but I did it in the form of a very long, carefully written letter in each case. Partly I had to do it this way because we live far apart and family gatherings were never conducive to these kinds of talks.

The way I see it, you don't have to change their MINDS but you have the right to ask them to change their behavior when they are with you. And, inside, I suspect, they know that you have a right to have your beliefs--e.g., in the dignity of all persons (say)--to be treated as respectfully as they would want you to treat their beliefs.

Cause, if you're like me, the annoying thing is that I suspect (correct me if I'm wrong) you wouldn't say "Oh, everyone knows all christians lack real intelligence and the ability to think rationally." "Anyone who believes in God is stupid," or "Christans are all bigots." If you have enough respect for their emotional well being not to make blanket statements about their beliefs--at the very least not to their faces--it really is quite simply rude, at any age, not to be able to refrain from "doing unto others..." in kind.

And at some level--if it's presented carefully to them as an issue of treating each other lovingly and with dignity--they also believe that. They know that. They're just not framing it that way right now.

It actually does treat them more respectfully to carefully confront their behavior than to hide from it because it's inevitable. Their beliefs may be unchangeable, but their behavior is not.

So: What if your gf sat her parents down or wrote them a carefully worded letter about how much pain their visits are causing, and how sad you both are about it, because you really want to be close to them? I'd suggest that she take quite a bit of time writing it--do it over the course of a few weeks or even months. For one thing, it will crystallize her own thoughts--she may write some parts that she decides she needs to say for herself, but which they don't need to hear right now, and she'll figure out a good path to what works for them, personally.

Then, and this is key, she should print it off and mail it to them--not email. Give them some time to respond. (OR She might decide that writing the letter has helped her frame what she needs to say in person, and sending the letter is not the best idea.)

Final advice: I'd suggest she/you begin this conversation by finding some common ground with them--the belief, for instance, in loving your neighbor as yourself. Talk about the painfulness of this experience for herself and for you, and that, although they are not doing it deliberately, it is painful for both of you.

So far, they may see you as only angry, or in intellectual disagreement, and not in pain: anger is often the strong face we put on pain: it makes us feel stronger, but it can kind of shuts off the empathy response in the other. So although it's counter intuitive to be vulnerable to people in situations like this, it's often exactly what is needed. Since you say they are good people, I suspect they will respond to your vulnerability very differently than to your rational arguments and frustration.

And, note, you don't have to slobber or grovel. Vulnerability can be expressed with dignity; if it is done carefully, if it's grounded in love for them, it actually connotes a different kind of strength that I think everyone recognizes when they confront the real thing. Because all of us know that is hard to open up to a relative and say "you may not realize it, but you're hurting me, and I love you and want to spend time with you, so I need you to stop doing this."

You may eventually need a kind of "threat" of "We cannot let you into our house if you continue to express those beliefs." But, seriously, I'd save it back for if the letter/conversation fails to make it plain just how serious this is to you both. I think it's quite possible you won't need to go to that next step.
 
 
Spaniel
19:56 / 24.04.06
Look. LOOK! Did you see that? She did it AGAIN!
 
 
Sekhmet
20:38 / 24.04.06
I cherish the hope that someday alas will agree to be my mom.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
20:59 / 24.04.06
My "in laws" are evangelical Christians and I follow the Jack Fear school of coping. I find myself walking down the road and admiring buildings or leaving the room to get a nice cup of tea. My partner argues with them anyway and they're his parents so I let him get on with it. Luckily they don't say too many dodgy things around me anyway, possibly because of a few arguments we've had where I may have behaved like a dog with a locked jaw (like the one that almost killed White Fang) and the danger look that glinted in my eyes. I suspect god may have warned them never to broach the subject of abortion in my presence. If a volcano explodes in the UK you will know that someone finally brought it up.
 
  
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