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Campari "The Secret" ad

 
  

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Ganesh
17:41 / 24.04.06
Given the big 'double reveal' (both characters reveal their chests - one a male torso, one bound breasts - and either remove make-up or unfasten long hair), I'd say it's unlikely that the ad's intended to have further layers of meaning beyond the perceived 'realness' of bare skin. That doesn't, of course, preclude us from perceiving extra layers and enjoying a mildly diverting genderfuck.

I do think it differs from the Gaultier Le Male campaign (which I remember from magazines but which may not have included a screen ad) in that it's based around the big reveal rather than simply leaving things ambiguous. I think this does introduce the idea of 'realness' but, as I say, there's also sufficient speculative space for one not to view it as essentialist. One can, if one wishes, simply be fascinated by the two attractive, sexy, aspirational characters - which is, I think, similar to the point Mister Disco's making.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
17:42 / 24.04.06


Of course I can't ask the characters in the ad what pronouns they prefer. But I can find them both fabulously sexy, without needing to know exactly what their 'real' genders are meant to be. Just like in real life.


I agree, about the character in the gown (as we are calling hir). I tried to say that much above, here:

I suppose in that respect my sexual response to the character is that I'm happy to be fooled by such a creature.

You may dislike the word "fooled", but I meant something similar to what you're saying, I think.

Tell you what, miss wonderstarr, why is it important to know the proper gender of the characters, or the person at the bus-stop? I'm not saying you can't make any judgments about gender, I just wonder why it's so important right here.

I think in this case it was... not important, but worth thinking about whether the double-reveal was intended to, and was likely to be read as, returning the situation to a "safe" straight sexuality, stripping the transgressive disguises away in a scenario of "hey it's OK, we're a straight guy and girl anyway so let's hook up". I don't know if that was the intention but it was one of the readings that occured to me:

actually of course the double-reveal presents a solution to the "problem" that the first one poses. We thought it was a man pursuing a beautiful woman: the romance/lust narrative dead-ends when both are shown to be men. But the possibilities open up again when the first man becomes a woman. The actors play this very well I think, and the unveiling of the woman seems to be met with suggestive smiles on both their parts, as if to say "OK... well, maybe we can get it on after all"... However, I'm just taking my own reading from this and perhaps there are other, more interesting interpretations of the story

I'm A Lady also suggested, I think, that the intended meaning of the ad's conclusion was normative heterosexuality.

I'd dump it in the reactionary camp, not only because commercials aren't revolutionary as a rule but also because the subtext I read is:

She: I'm afraid we won't be shagging, because you see, I am a bloke, and two blokes shagging is icky, bad and makes God cross.
He: Aah, but you see, I am actually a bird, so let us away and have good clean heterosexual sex.


You opened up that conclusion in what to me was an interesting way. I think you raised a good point.

why is it important to know the proper gender of the person at the bus-stop?

Well... for convenience and shorthand? So you can say "that man was in the queue before you?" or "that's the woman who works in the laundrette?" You could say "the person with the yellow coat" or "the individual who's coughing now", but just as I might sometimes say "that Asian guy" or "the white guy" about someone in the street without checking how they self-identify in terms of ethnicity, I do use gendered pronouns to try to make it clear quickly who I'm talking about.

I really don't want to sound baffled here (and it might sound like I'm questioning your approach, which I don't intend) but I'm afraid that kind of use of "him" or "her" for quick reference is quite usual for me and I'd thought that it was quite usual for most people.
 
 
■
21:44 / 24.04.06
To be charitable, I think the starting point for the ad is the idea that Campari tastes nothing like you'd expect it to (it's the favoured drink of certain London gang murderers, apparently), so I'd expect the people who made it really didn't have the gender issues uppermost in their minds when they made it and cared more about the "reveal".
The tit-splashing is also a rather painfully forced nod to Leonard Rossiter/Joan Collins, isn't it?

Anyway, we ought to have someone from Saatchi on here by now who might have some useful feedback. Where is he?
 
 
Ganesh
21:47 / 24.04.06
The tit-splashing is also a rather painfully forced nod to Leonard Rossiter/Joan Collins, isn't it?

Yeah, bit hammy, that.
 
 
penitentvandal
06:35 / 25.04.06
Dammit, I was just about to bring up Leonard Rossiter...
 
 
Mourne Kransky
09:00 / 25.04.06
He didn't agree with you? Unpalatable chap.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
03:19 / 26.04.06
mw -- it is quite usual for most people to assume their reading of someone's gndered cues are reliable and therefore to make the gender judgment almost unconsciously. For 'convenience and shorthand'. Most people in Euro-American, Anglophone places, or places in which gender is the most important marker of identity. That doesn't make it right, and it doesn't make it universal.

Perhaps this is going off thread a litle, and bit headshoppy as well, but the need to know a person's 'real' gender is one of those things that we assume is universal. It's really not.

I keep asking why this is so important because on a daily basis, people cannot really tell what my gender is. This forces them to make a guess and the guess changes depending on a whole host of different factors, including who I'm with and how I've done my hair that morning, and their own preconceptions even more. Often I wish they could just not make the guess, or ask me. Equally often, the guess people make over-rides what they know intellectually to be so. Therefore, I get people signing forms for me that say 'Mr' etc etc etc very happily, 'we are all trans friendly here', and then they'll enter a room where I'm sitting with a woman and say, "Oh, hi girls..."

It's quite frustrating. Hence, why the need for shorthand and convenience? Why is it so important?
 
 
miss wonderstarr
06:22 / 26.04.06
Yes, I understand that Mister Disco, and I can entirely see why you're saying it. (Sounds like there's a 'but' ~ there is no 'but'.)

Except to add that if this discussion develops I don't think it should move to Headshop, as I am a believer in Conversation as a forum for at least semi-serious discussion, and also it's interesting to see whether this would be a thread that could work on (could in part justify?) a "Bodyshop" or Sex & Relationships forum.
 
 
Ganesh
23:31 / 05.05.06
Thinking about this ad further, and discussing it with Xoc, I've been meaning to contribute further to this thread.

Both Xoc and myself felt strongly attracted, sexually, to the individual who starts the advert as female-identified, in a black halter-neck dress - both at the beginning and after the 'reveal'. Neither one of us felt any particular tug-on-the-loins for the other character, the breast-binding one who starts off in a male role.

This interests me because it runs counter to pretty much all my experience of trans people to date. I've come in contact with male-to-female and female-to-male trans folk, and any erotic attraction has been focussed on the latter group. This suggests to me that what I find attractive as a gay man - my x-factor - is located not in the penis but in a more diffuse essence of masculinity. Generally speaking, I experience little or no erotic attraction to people transitioning from male-to-female, whether pre- or post-op.

This advert, then, runs against the grain for me. The elusive 'essence of masculinity' to which I'm attracted is located not in the individual ostensibly 'doing' masculinity but in the individual ostensibly 'doing' femininity. This suggests to me that, at least on a Ganesh-erotic level, the advert doesn't ring true. The female-identifying protagonist emits a masculine vibe which attracts me, whereas the male-identifying protagonist gives off a feminine vibe which doesn't. This makes me suspicious that, judging purely on the basis of What Turns Ganesh On, the individuals in the advert aren't 'real' transsexuals.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
09:52 / 06.05.06
Did you real the male-identified person at the bar as a female transvestite straight off?

But on a similar tip to this thread, there's this advert.
 
 
Ganesh
09:53 / 06.05.06
Did you real the male-identified person at the bar as a female transvestite straight off?

Yes - but even if I hadn't, I don't think I'd have been attracted to that physical 'type' of man.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
09:59 / 06.05.06
Oh, FFS Vauxhall you stupid stupid bastards.
 
 
Ganesh
10:37 / 09.05.06
Yeah, the Vauxhall one's much more rooted in conventional (harmful) stereotypes and cliches around the subject of 'sex change'.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
13:23 / 09.05.06
What happens in the Vauxhall one? I don't watch much telly.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
13:27 / 09.05.06
A hilaaaarious skit in which an MTF transsexual asks for her surgery to be reversed, and is surprised when this is not possible.

Must... not... kill...
 
 
Ganesh
13:37 / 09.05.06
And appears to have had absolutely no prior period of transition (children have had no time to adjust) before apparently jumping out of a cake, fully phenotypically female.
 
  

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