"shop (n.) 1297, perhaps from O.E. scoppa "booth or shed for trade or work""
I really like the name 'Head shop' (even tho it seems to have certain stoner imagery associated with it in my mind...)
I think that a large part of the argument about whether or not the names of the fora are "male centric" seems to rely on certain traditional judgements ingrained in our society.
Thought experiment (call it a 'feeling experiment' if you prefer..): If for some reason barbelith were to have a forum named 'The Doctor's surgery' that dealt with, say, issues of health and wellbeing, would it be "male centric"?
Would the "Nurse's ward" be female-centric?
If yes, why?
Don't matters like this boil down to the fact that there are certain roles in society which are traditionaly perceived to be played by men or women? Doctors are all men, nurses are women, right?
So we can say (somewhat uneasily) that the Laboratory and the Head shop are somewhat "male centric" - The roles of scientist and philosopher/theorist have, in the past, been played by men.
But to say that these fora are "male centric" is to fall for a trap. Just because there are some social stigma remaining about certain roles and who should play them, does this mean that we should perpetuate these stigma? Of course not.
This site (as far as i can tell) is devoted to progress and revolution. In this community, we seek to change restrictive elements of society; to subvert certain prejudices and to give example to progressive thought and action.
There are some words that we would not wish to perpetuate, and so we choose not to use them.
However, there are words that are not, in their base nature, offensive or derogatory. There is nothing in the nature of the word Laboratory that suggests it is in any way gender-affective - it describes a room in which one performs experiments and tests. The fact that (until about 50 years ago) these tests were performed by men does not mean that it needs to be considered a male realm.
Yes, a shop in the sense of 'workshop' seems somewhat more connected to roles more often performed by men, but so fucking what! Why can't non-male gender-id'd posters reclaim this term? Why cant a woman work in a workshop?!
This all seems to apply to the whole argument of rational thought as male-specific. Why is it that people still seek to perpetuate this oppressive myth of women as 'irrational, emotional creatures'? Why is it so frequently women that do so?
Is there some sort of comfort to be found in claiming that one is genetically predisposed to emotive claims rather than rational argument? Is it valid to claim that "this debate is so male-oriented and rational that i, as a woman am forced to the sidelines due to my emotive disposition", or is this simply a cop-out - a coded way of saying "I'm special and different so don't need to discuss in a rational manner. Please don't offend me with dissagreement."
Yes, there are many different ways to argue/discuss a matter, and emotional involvement is just as essential to a debate as a 'rational' approach, but to make claims that one can't be expected to take part because 'everybody else is playing mean' seems pretty weak and a disservice to yourself.
I agree that some areas of barbelith demand a high level of thought and rational interaction, and i have felt this to be somewhat intimidating at times. I personally think this is a good thing - it means there is room for me to grow and change, but i can see how it might put other people off somewhat. However, i think it'd be better to admit that one feels out of their depth instead of claiming that intellectual rigour is somehow 'male'.
So in summary....
Um...
I feel that the claim that the names for the fora are somehow "male centric" is somewhat misguided, and that even if they are male centric, it is because of our preconcepions of certain roles, rather than any probalem with the words themselves. It's us that need to change, not the words.
I think that there is some argument to be made for a certain lack of emotional input on some of the threads and fora and that this can be intimidating for those who communicate in more emotive patterns. I also think there is some argument to be made for the 'boys club' nature of some parts of the 'lith. However, we should be careful not to confuse these two elements.
I'd suggest that instead of seeing a problem with one forum/thread and acting in a reactionary manner (creation of different fora/threads, renaming of fora/threads etc.), one should make the changes from within. If you think a converstation needs more emotion, then add some emotion!
Sibyline - I realise that some of this will read as if it is directed at you, and you have definitely spurred some of the thoughts here, but the most of what i have said is aimed at barbelith at large, and certain trends i notice within it. I don't want you to feel like i've been ranting at you.
However, i do want to ask you about:
"i might suggest that considering barbelith has been characterized to me as being full of smart, interesting people who welcome new members with interesting things to say, i don't feel particularly welcomed."
I've only been on the board for a matter of weeks; we were probably accepted in the same 'wave' of admissions.
I have felt no hostility or animosity towards my posts at all. From what i have read of your posts and their responses, i'm not sure i can see what you are getting at.
Your "Things that confuse me about barbelith" thread illicited many warm welcomes and replies to your questions, and has over 100 posts in it. People have responded to your questions and posts with interest and involvement.
I may be wrong - a cannot say i have read all of your threads and i may have missed something, but you seem to be getting on just fine. It seems you may be rather unhappy with the critisism some of your ideas have received, but i don't think you can really expect to avoid any disagreement in a community of over 5000.
I think the point Haus makes is pretty valid - from what i have read of your posts, a lot of them have been devoted to the idea of getting an S&R forum going, along with the problems you see with various fora.
I can understand your drive to integrate yourself fully within barbelith and get involved with some of the 'bigger' stuff that goes on - I have also put various ideas together for group work and many of my posts are large "this is what i think - HEAR ME!!!" pieces.
I suspect it's a way for us n00bs to get over the fear of the oldies (or worse: the fear of being ignored!) by jumping in at the deep end - the new kid at school who tries extra hard to make the in-jokes and suggest the best games to play.
But you've just got to realise (as i am starting to) that you can't really expect to just turn round and change everything in a few weeks. Barbelith is a community, and every community has certain norms and values. Barbelith is open for change and progress (a lot more so than other communities) but it's always going to take some time to enact these changes.
While i can understand your frustration, it's somewhat counter-productive to characterise people's disagreement with what you say as 'unwelcoming'. It's more likely to provoke negative feelings than sympathy. |
