Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Oi! Ref!

07:45 / 11.04.06

Barbeloids - some of you are in positions of total power, aren't you? What do you do when someone has listed you as a referee and you believe them to be utterly incapable of doing the job? Not just a bit scatty, but crocodile-in-a-creche awful?
I believe that writing a bad reference is not considered the done thing. So do you decline to provide one at all? Or does that send just as clear a signal as saying the candidate is appalling?

The candidate didn't ask me first (I would have fobbed them off). I suppose I could also go back to them and tell them to find someone else - which is socially awkward, but if I have to I'll try not to use phrases like 'paranoid and belligerent'.

(I wish I could describe how terrible I believe this candidate to be, but I'd fear being tracked down, despite online anonymity, and a new face.)

Bloody mantle of adulthood. Never wanted it anyway. All suggestions welcomed.

Whisky Priestess

08:15 / 11.04.06

Surely any reference you give to their potential future employers is completely confidential? Whenever I've needed (admittedly only academic) references, I've never even been allowed to see them - they go straight from referee to the people in charge.

Just trash them, can't you? Sounds like you'll be doing the world a favour. If this can't be done, I believe the custom is to provide a completely neutral reference stating that yes, indeed, so-and-so did work at the place stated between the dates stated, plus any reason for leaving (e.g. ill health, fired for theft, attempted to kill the tea-lady etc.).

Jub

08:21 / 11.04.06

Firstly, you can excuse yourself if you are not qualified to give a reference. If you are not the person's old boss, you can tell them and the new employers this.

Your want to make sure that you do not write anything defamatory as this can lead to a lawsuit. Just stick to the facts and if you are offering an opinion make it clear it is such.

When this happened to me I ignored it until it went away. Not the most effective of approaches but it worked!

Tabitha Tickletooth

08:24 / 11.04.06

Under no circumstances would I provide a written reference for this person, if I was you. You really don't want a permanent written record of your 'support' for this person. If they are twuntish enough to give you as a referree without asking your permission first, they deserve everything they get. If you are contacted by a prospective employer, I'd be very honest without being dismissive or unkind.

I know people are quite flippant about references sometimes, but I really believe that when I recommend someone it reflects on my judgement. If they turn out to be cretinously incompetent and cock up someone's business I'd feel like that was my fault.

It may be the stuff of urban myth, but in Australia I have heard tales of people facing legal action for giving references which are judged to be false or misleading (ie saying someone is a brilliant accountant when they cannot, in fact, add).

Jub

08:25 / 11.04.06

WP - I think academic references are different from employment ones. I think I read somewhere that the Lords upheld cases in effect saying that authors of references owe a duty of care to the person. Will try and find a source for this.

08:26 / 11.04.06

Your want to make sure that you do not write anything defamatory as this can lead to a lawsuit.

This is what I'd heard, and feared... Thanks for the thoughts - I fear I am (at least a little) qualified to give a reference, which is annoying.

And thanks, Whisky, I'd forgotten the possibility of the Rigorously Neutral reference. I was gearing up for the backhanded understated kind ('Timmy has probably read some things, and certainly knows at least a little stuff') but ruthless facts might serve me better.

08:30 / 11.04.06

Tabitha -

I really believe that when I recommend someone it reflects on my judgement.

You're right - and I don't think it's fair that they might get a job because I'm too polite to tell them to sod off.
And I think I'd probably be doing an injustice to everyone else who's applied if I don't make it clear that I think this person isn't competent.

Jub - this rings ominous bells. I think I'll check with HR at my place of employment and see what they say. They may have a factsheet.

Jub

08:37 / 11.04.06

Here you go!

08:37 / 11.04.06

Ah, yes - some fine advice from my employers. I apparently have 'a duty of care to the subject of the reference and also a duty of care to the recipient of the reference'. Which is fair enough.

And Jub, you're right - 'either the College or the individual writing a reference could be open to legal challenges on grounds of negligence, misrepresentation or defamation'. Which is terrifying. I may never write one of these things again.

My favourite line so far: 'As far as possible, write references which you would be able to show to the subject, and which the subject would be likely to consider fair, even if critical.'
Good to bear in mind, but optimistic about people's responses, I think. Especially as the people getting terrible references often aren't the most level-headed reasonable ones.

ONLY NICE THINGS

08:38 / 11.04.06

This page on the legalities of giving a reference here may be useful. Note in particular that your refrence may be accessible under the Data Protection Act, and also that it may form the basis for litigation.

Personally, I would consult the HR department. In fact, if you can pass this on to the academic administrator, who will have a more complete picture of the person and the statistics of their time at the institution, that might be ideal.

08:39 / 11.04.06

Thanks, Jub - saw that after I'd posted. Much to consider.

Maybe if I write a really good reference, but I write it in pigeon's blood.

Smoothly

08:41 / 11.04.06

If you can’t shirk it, I think damning with faint praise is the standard approach in your position. You could probably have some fun with that. This candidate must have some qualities. Would it be fair to call hir a ‘strong and confident tea maker’? Does ze enjoy ‘a mastery of pencils and associated applications’? ‘Good teeth’?

08:46 / 11.04.06

'Nice notepad, some good jumpers.'

(I wouldn't, I'm good, I swear...)

ONLY NICE THINGS

08:47 / 11.04.06

Yes, if your workplace is one of the two taxi firms in Carry on Cabbie.

Loomis

08:48 / 11.04.06

Although even a neutral reference seems unfairly positive in this case, keep in mind that most references are glowing so it will really stand out if yours isn't and it will ring alarm bells for the potential employers.

Ariadne

09:07 / 11.04.06

Well, I've heard that something like 70% of companies only give the most basic facts as references now, because of fear of being sued!

doozy floop

09:23 / 11.04.06

I can vouch for that - last place I worked, the only person permitted to give a reference was the HR manager, and all he was allowed to give was: date you started and finished there, number of sick days, and job title / nature of duties.

Now that must make gripping reading.

Jub

09:41 / 11.04.06

fucks me off about sick days. In places I've worked (not here) people were lauded for not taking time off when they were ill - or for not being ill. WTF?

"I have a really healthy immune system!" Yay me!

"I don't have a really healthy immune system and am sick, but to keep my perfect attendence record I'm going to come in to spread germs and not do any work".

Grr. Those adverts contribute I'm sure. "Feeling ill? Take some pills and get back to work you shyster".

/threadrot

Mistoffelees

13:34 / 11.04.06

In Germany you have to insist on reading what they write about you. And you need the skills to decipher what they wrote.

Examples:
"Always tried his best to accomplish his duties and responsibilities."
= is a zero, failure, loser, etc.

"Always accomplished his duties to his and the corporation´s satifaction."
= thief

"her sociable ways helped improving the work climate"
= alcoholic

"had the opportunity to to acquire the necessary skills"
= but did not use it

"always very capable and voiced her opinion."
= barrater, bellyacher, grouser, grumbler

"impeccable behaviour" = behaviour was not commendable

"always accomplished the duties, that were given to him to our satifaction."
= had no initiative, only did what he was told

There are other tricks too.
1) always write about the person in a passive voice
2) mention things that are circumstantial [debasement]
3) keep it short (=raises suspicions, that shortcoming are omitted)

Less searchable M0rd4nt

13:54 / 11.04.06

Sit within earshot and mutter, through gritted teeth, "Reference? Oh, I'll give you a reference all right..."

"Prison style" optional.

Whisky Priestess

14:43 / 11.04.06

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your request for an employment reference for X. In hir time in my employ, I found X to be both ornamental and a huge asset; providing you remove the "orna" and "et" parts.

Yours etc.

Ex

Daemon est Deus Inversus

15:46 / 11.04.06

I like:

"Generally, X. can be relied upon to meet expectations while under supervision. Moreover, in certain matters, X. meets, and sometimes exceeds, expectations while under limited supervision."

haus of fraser

16:07 / 11.04.06

I say go with the super neutral reference- pepper it with some of Mistoffelees phrases and meaningless management speak. Then post it here with names removed for our approval and help.

Shrug

16:23 / 11.04.06

There is the option of creating a form with _________ name fields, that, as W.P. suggested, is of a neutral variety.
An insert name here reference can't but stand out negatively.

Add Your Reply