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Stop the country, I want to get off!

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12:43 / 05.04.06

The UK has, for a while now, been becoming an increasingly unpleasant place to live. It is small, over-populated, mean-spirited and hypocritical. We're crushed by tax, opressed by increasingly draconian legislation, and expected to use services which barely function whilst the PFIs that run them pocket large bonuses and government handouts.

I'm sick of it, so myself and Miss Tez have decided that since we can't beat them and won't join them, we're going to leave them.

Now emigration is something I know absolutely nothing about as of yet, so I'm after any advice other 'lithers who've made similar migrations can give, and any experiences you feel might be of value. Obviously this is a big step, and will not hapen for a few years yet, but I want to start looking into things now, just so I know all I need to know when the time comes.

12:47 / 05.04.06

Get a proper job pronto if you haven't already got one. Engineers, doctors, teachers are top of the tree when it comes to getting in easily. If you work in the service industries it will be a lot more difficult.

12:58 / 05.04.06

Come to Germany!

And better yet to Berlin! Germany is the country with the lowest birthrate on Earth and Berlin is the city with lowest birthrate in Germany. So you won´t have to worry about overpopulation anytime soon around here. And I don´t see much mean-spiritness going on here, either. Although the mood can be sometimes a bit down (20% umemployment in town), almost everyone is pretty relaxed most of the time.

When I visited London in 2004, I was amazed how fast the businesspeople walked int he morning. Hello, I thought, what´s the hurry, you´re going to work, not the pub! We have about 2 pubs at every crossroad, at least 6.000 pubs in total.

The weather is nice, too (I have to confess, we had the coldest march in the last 116 years, though), lots of sun, warm summers, real snow in winter.

We have at least half a dozen real castles in town, I live a ten minute walk away from one, and the main city castle will be rebuilt quite soon.

We have three operas, lots of tasty restaurants, and lots of bautiful nature (lakes, woods, etc.) in and around the city.

You should not come before august, though. The soccer worldchampionship might turn my fellow Germans a bit insane.

13:07 / 05.04.06

The UK has, for a while now, been becoming an increasingly unpleasant place to live. It is small, over-populated, mean-spirited and hypocritical. We're crushed by tax, opressed by increasingly draconian legislation, and expected to use services which barely function whilst the PFIs that run them pocket large bonuses and government handouts.

You should come to the U.S.! It's a large country, sparsely-populated in some areas, friendlier, and has lower taxes. And not only will you not be forced to use public services, you won't even have the option!

Tabitha Tickletooth

13:15 / 05.04.06

Be sure you think there is somewhere better than where you are before you consider moving there. I'm actually not being facetious - I currently live in the UK and have for about ten years (with a couple of breaks in between - I'm from Australia). Despite having its moments, I think it's great, but hopefully, next year, I'll be moving somewhere else for a while.

Point is, I didn't move here because I thought it was *better* than Australia, I moved here because it was *different*. I don't think (and it truly is just my opinion, fwiw) that moving *away* from somewhere is as good a motivation as moving *to* somewhere.

Anyhoo, that's all a bit negative. Agree on the working in a 'desirable' industry suggestion. Would add checking out possible visa/residency/sponsorship schemes where you are thinking of going - with particular reference to any age limits.

Start any language learning required now, if you are anything at all like me and take, shall we say, some time to learn these things. Also, I started a TEFL thread recently in which some very helpful advice was proferred, if you think teaching English might be useful. If so, let me know and I will post a link to the thread.

13:28 / 05.04.06

Go to Scotland. They're crying out for new blood as their birth rate is low. Same language, same money(ish), different politics, different legal system, significantly higher per capita healthcare spend, altogether less stratified and more socialised population. Plus there be Barbeloids there awaitin'.

Go to one of the cultured cosmopolitan cities of the South or one of the quaint little towns straight out of the 1950's and keep chickens. Or go live in the wilderness, half way up a mountain or on a windswept island and drink yourself to death with the rest of the locals. And so much less hassle to organise!

13:30 / 05.04.06

I don't think you need a visa to enter Leaptopia. They have no taxation, no laws and no public services to complain about. To enter you only need to be known by two parishioners but won't be able to take a job away from a local member of the community for three years. Unfortunately you cannot claim a share in the rotting food allocated to the poor until you have lived in the community for five years.

I believe they have nice weather though.

13:34 / 05.04.06

significantly higher per capita healthcare spend

although, to be fair, that's because we all seem to die of everything more than annyone else.
heart? fucked.
lungs? fucked.
cancer? cancer is doing really well, actually. its juts a shame its not a vital organ and instead kills you dead.

as long as you are healthy you should be fine, but be aware that the lifestyle is not organised around pilates and lattes.

yes, i did just steal madonna's rhymes.
you wanna make somthing of it?
strike a pose, fucknuts; let's get to it.

13:34 / 05.04.06

I emigrated to NZ - got the passport, the whole caboodle. Now I'm back, and very glad to be here. Different is not necessarily better.

Come to Scotland!

13:39 / 05.04.06

Can't EU residents move and work freely within member countries? That should make things much easier...

13:40 / 05.04.06

I emigrated to NZ - got the passport, the whole caboodle

You see, it was actually NZ myself and Mrs Tez have been seriously considering.

Why did you return, Ariadne? Was it not an easy process? Hated the country? More details please!

13:43 / 05.04.06

Hated the country. Before any NZers get upset, it's a lovely place, just not for me. I'll PM you, Tez, rather than cause a war!
I got residency on the basis of a de facto relationship - but the points system seems to be relatively straightforward, so long as you fit within the age/education/experience profile they're after. Having a degree and being under 30, for instance, is a big plus.

13:47 / 05.04.06

It's important to remember that day to day happiness isn't directly related to whether you like the politics of your govt. You have to consider what you like about the city and neighbourhood where you live, your friends, job, commute to work, etc. You may prefer the politics of NZ over the UK but that doesn't mean your day to day life would be more enjoyable in Christchurch than Brighton.

And to echo what everyone is saying, come to Scotland! Or at least consider moving away from the south east of England where all the stress is.

13:57 / 05.04.06

Can't EU residents move and work freely within member countries? That should make things much easier...

No, they can´t. I didn´t find any sources on the net about this, but the new east European members have struck a deal with the EU, that their citizens for the next couple of years cannot get work like other Eu members in the rest of th EU yet. There are lots of loop holes, though.

13:59 / 05.04.06

Scotland’s that good huh?

I'm thinking about moving back to be honest. Comes down to whether I want less cash or less stress but I think less stress will be the winner.

14:02 / 05.04.06

Or at least consider moving away from the south east of England where all the stress is.

yeah.
it aint the same britain down there, like.

14:02 / 05.04.06

I see that the Miss Tez of your 1st post is now Mrs Tez, Tez. May I offer my congratulations. I hope you and your (extremely new) wife find somewhere to lay your hats.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

14:11 / 05.04.06

I still dream of moving to Iceland. Preferably before 2012 (no, not TEH APOCALYPSE!!!1!1!!111, the sodding Olympics), but I'm not sure how to go about doing it.

14:29 / 05.04.06

if only the olympics were in december...

14:32 / 05.04.06

I'm confused. You want the Olympics sooner to get rid of Stoatie?

Tabitha Tickletooth

14:35 / 05.04.06

That did seem a little harsh - I was thinking more along the lines of 'if only the Olympics were in the core of the sun'.

14:52 / 05.04.06

nonono.
december 2012.
when it all goes 'ooooh', innit.
i was thinking if the closing ceremony of the olympics was the jumping off point for consciousness expansio-lution it might be a reason to watch.

seems fitting that the apocalypse would take the form of a big party based in london, especially with all the olympics are supposed to stand for.
human excellence, etc.

elevate me, oh flame of the greeks, for i have endured athletics... for weeks.

15:02 / 05.04.06

Hmmm...Scotland, eh? I'd not really considered it, being a creature of the warmer climes myself.

Our decision to move isn't really based on our day to day lives per se, which are comparatively happy, but more on our dissatisfaction with the increasingly sorry state of this miserable little country.
To put it plainly, we don't really like England any more. And much as you can say that a government's politics don't impact on the day to day lives of its citizens, that's simply not true. They do. And in the UK that impact is rarely for the better.

15:08 / 05.04.06

Well, I'd have to disagree that it is a miserable little country - I think the UK is one of the best places to live in the world.

If that's really your reason for going then you need to be sure that where you're going will be better.

15:09 / 05.04.06

If it's low taxation you're after check out this list.

Bear in mind that unless you're rather wealthy, or expect to be rather wealthy, you might want to go somewhere with well funded public services.

15:12 / 05.04.06

I'd like to echo Ariadne's sentiment.

15:51 / 05.04.06

Well, I'd have to disagree that it is a miserable little country - I think the UK is one of the best places to live in the world.

To each their own. Obviously it's just a personal opinion, and it's more than possible that my outlook on the UK, and on humanity in general for that matter, is a touch more bleak.

It's all still very nebulous at the moment. We're half-considering selling up everything in the UK, which will net us quite a tidy sum, and setting up a business somewhere.

I like the idea of NZ, but am also leaning towards some of the smaller islands throughout the globe. I have a lot of family on the island of Bermuda, and my parents hold dual nationality for there and the UK, so that's also a consideration. What I'm really after is the general impressions of those who have emigrated, why they did it, and, just as importantly, whether they consider themselves happier for doing it.

16:09 / 05.04.06

Or go live in the wilderness, half way up a mountain or on a windswept island and drink yourself to death with the rest of the locals.

You know, that doesn't seem like a bad idea...

unheimlich manoeuvre

16:13 / 05.04.06

If that's really your reason for going then you need to be sure that where you're going will be better.

How about a nice long holiday?

16:35 / 05.04.06

My advice would be apply to a university in the Virgin Islands (or Bermuda or elsewhere in the Caribbean) and see where that takes you. Or the Seychelles. I hear that's nice.

My parents emigrated (my mother did twice), and it seemed to work out for them.

Tryphena Absent

18:06 / 05.04.06

I think you should emigrate to that little village in Somerset where they recycle everything.

18:37 / 05.04.06

I frequently toy with the idea of moving back to Scotland. It isn't some amazingly, beautiful paradise though.

I like living in the UK. I think tax is low compared to Europe...and wages are higher.

18:43 / 05.04.06

I get the impression from Tez's first post that he wouldn't so much mind the tax if he thought he was going to get something out of it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Tez.

19:27 / 05.04.06

Come to Scotland!

I'm actually from New Zealand (well, born in London but 20 years of my life spent in NZ) and I live in Scotland! I came back to the UK to find out what I was missing and er, I haven't gone back...

Anyway, pros for NZ: good wine, cheaper to eat out, nice varied countryside such as high mountains/rain forest/good beaches, a lot less people, (sometimes) better weather, nuclear free, friendly people, weird parrots and other birds, er, lots of sheep...

Cons for NZ: rugby (sport in general) is the main religion, far far away from the rest of the world, very petty provincial politics, bad beer (generally), you will be teased for being a "Whingeing Pom" (even if you don't), a "NZ is best country in world" belief, little in the way of visible heritage (though Maori culture pretty healthy), sprawling American style suburbs (Auckland), crap public transport (very car orientated), rudimentary social security/pension/investment options (unless rich), absolutely crap television (radio ok), massive cockroaches...

Okay so the cons list is longer than the pros...but it wouldn't put me off returning there to live. But my partner doesn't want to go and I could have employment problems. I'm in no hurry yet...

ONLY NICE THINGS

19:46 / 05.04.06

Come. To. Ponty.

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