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Hacking, Cracking, and Privacy.

 
 
Frances Farmer
20:26 / 17.06.01
I notice 'Hacking and Cracking' under the header of The Labatory, so I figure I'd ask,

I. Is anybody here involved in, what we'll call for the sake of the discussion, 'Network/Host/Internet Security'? This includes Security Analysts, Freelance Security Professionals (Ahem..), and hopefully involves people with at least rudementary coding skills.

This does not include individuals who download tools like nmap and various assorted rootkits to exploit systems that haven't been properly hardened.

II. What about phones? Anybody work as a telecommunications tech or engineer? Is anybody familiar with the ins-and-outs of POTS?

This does include individuals who followed instructions for creating any number of devices dealing with telephones and was successful with their technical endeavour. I don't want to hear about breaking the law, except in abstract and purely non-incriminating terms.

If these apply, what are you proficient with? What are your interests? Have you studied privacy issues? What are your guidelines for retaining a semblance of privacy in a highly 'public' communications atmosphere?
 
 
Tom Coates
13:03 / 28.04.02
I'd be really interested in talking to anyone who is involved in hacking / cracking / security or cryptography, so if there is anyone on here then shout! Otherwise, is anyone interested in us compiling some documentation on privacy issues / cryptography and the like?
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
13:17 / 28.04.02
if you want to learn a few tricks, go to www.try2hack.nl and play through the challenges, some get pretty involved and that was where i learned a lot about packet sniffing, ip spoofing, and PW cracking.

as far as phone stuff goes i have built an assortment of boxes in the past, and also used "administrator" key combinations to use calling card companies at payphones for LD calling
 
 
Rose
14:42 / 28.04.02
"I. Is anybody here involved in, what we'll call for the sake of the discussion, 'Network/Host/Internet Security'? This includes Security Analysts, Freelance Security Professionals (Ahem..), and hopefully involves people with at least rudementary coding skills."

Ooh, oh, I am!

"II. What about phones? Anybody work as a telecommunications tech or engineer? Is anybody familiar with the ins-and-outs of POTS?"

I have worked with phone a little, you know making silly little boxes, back in the day, to figure out how things work. There are also things like finding fun numbers, like the ones that shut off your line so that you can work on it without fearing that pesky little shock.
I think that a lot of the newer implantations on payphone are quit interesting as well. Allow me to explain, Mister Snee (aka Flame0ut), who sometimes posts here, and a friend created what is known as The Flowbox. The gist of it is, Bell Canada now uses what is known as Millennium phone (model M1231). These phones don’t have a 'real' dial tone, as it were; instead they have a pre-recorded 'tone' -- which makes most of the boxes obsolete. However, the toll signaling is still done on the client side, so to speak. When you dial you number it asks for money, you deposit the correct amount and then it is stored in a temporary are, from there the microphone is activated. Once all that is said and done the phone tries to connect your call, at this time the ring is positive and the tip is negative; if your call is connected the Central Office reveres the ring and tips voltage, at this time the phone collects your money. What the Flowbox does it 'rectify' out the reversal of voltages, so the phone never knows to collect the money and when you hang up the change falls out of the temporary area. Of course, this is all theoretical.
Sorry to rant on about it, I just think is was a very clever thing that they discovered. :P

"If these apply, what are you proficient with? What are your interests? Have you studied privacy issues? What are your guidelines for retaining a semblance of privacy in a highly 'public' communications atmosphere?"

Actually I am involved in Network Security; I was recently working on getting my Cisco certifications, until I had a moral dilemma about Cisco. Anyhow, I do have rudimentary coding skills, I mean, I can maintain a Unix box and or a network of 'em (maybe even code something awesome ), but I am no Python or Assembly ninja. I am starting to pick up more coding technique, yo, but for now I remain a Network Monkey with some experience in Perl, BF and some other languages that I can't remember at the moment. So, to summarize interests are in Networking and Digital Logic and a bit of coding.
As for Privacy, I have been watching recent privacy issues et al, and to be frank I am somewhat worried about them. I mean, .NET scares the fuck out of me, but that is why I avoid it. Now, I should mention that I don't have a credit card, nor do I ever buy anything online -- so, I really don't need to be concerned with privacy as much as someone who does one or both of the aforementioned things.
When it comes to keeping your information safe, there is 256 bit encryption out there. I mean really, 256bit!
Well then, if you are interested in more information about your privacy online go to @stake and look for "What is your Identity Worth to You?". I guess that the best way to keep your self safe is to be aware of what people do to find things out about you, I guess that is common sense, but it never hurts to say it. Right? Right??
Right.
Also, if you are interested in cryptography the best book you can get for that is "Applied Cryptography: Second Edition".
Amazing book.
Honest.
 
 
Rose
15:19 / 28.04.02
Ack, I forgot, Frances Farmer, you said "This does not include individuals who download tools like nmap...," I assume that you said this because of the script kiddy stigma, which is understandable. However, nmap isn't a vulnerability scaner, it is simply a port scanner -- that's all. It is useful to system admins who are auditing their network security. You know, to see what is running and to ensure that there are no unexpected ports are open. The output from nmap of little use to a script kiddie who usually needs to be explicitly told a system is vulnerable to a certain exploit, they are more likely to use vulnerability scanners or scanners that come with specific exploits that are tried over and over on differnt systems until an insecure one is found.


Also, where I said, "When it comes to keeping your information safe, there is 256 bit encryption out there. I mean really, 256bit!" I meant 2048bit. Heh. Woops.
 
 
Mister Snee
16:00 / 28.04.02
There's a common misconception that "hacking and cracking" is in some way sexy, radical, anarchistic or some other such thing. But the sad fact remains that the people who most folk would call "hackers" are generally divided into two extremes: teenagers with no real technical skill who deface web pages using exploits-inna-can, and "real" hackers, who could talk your ear off all night about embedded microprocessor assembly but frankly are not the most glamorous people you could hope to meet.

Now, I'd personally classify Asher (Abydoss) and myself in the latter camp: I'm a code monkey and I get a kick out of messing around with The System, as it were, but I'm hardly a particularly exciting guy. Get me going about the logic needed to implement conditionals in the 8-instruction language BrainFuck and I'll go until I notice you're no longer within earshot. Buy me a coffee and I'll take eight hours to explain every single in and out of Intel Assembly to you. But ask me my opinion on some issue of music or style and I'm out in the cold. Cars, too. I don't know much about cars. o_O

Just my 2 cents. "Hacking" tends to be fascinating only to the people who do it, you know? There's such a prodigious amount of dry, practical, utterly boring knowledge that has to be sucked up in order to do anything with a programming language that could be called "hacking" that it tends to surprise the average guy who thinks hackers are like those kids he saw on TV with their cyber-gizmoes and wossnames. The reality is that it's pretty boring stuff as far as normal people are concerned, which is why you never really see me discuss it here. ^-^
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
14:46 / 01.05.02
yeah, try to start up a discussion on Perl coding at the local starbucks and see how fast it empties out
 
 
Lurid Archive
15:43 / 01.05.02
I don't know about everyone else, but I wouldn't mind having to soak up some of the dry stuff to learn a little about hacking. I'm not sure I'd want to expend serious amounts of energy into it, but surely its possible to gloss over some technicalities and give us a flavour?
 
 
Rose
04:30 / 02.05.02
"So. I don't know about everyone else, but I wouldn't mind having to soak up some of the dry stuff to learn a little about hacking. I'm not sure I'd want to expend serious amounts of energy into it, but surely its possible to gloss over some technicalities and give us a flavour?"

Erm, hacking is the idea of learning everything about the system and knowing how to work with it. By glossing over parts of it you lose the picture as a whole. It's like seeing parts of a painting, you can guess what it looks like, but you can't be sure. Does that make sense?
I am not in a hackerish mood and as such am having trouble wording this post -- typing up genealogy documents I am.
Sorry.
 
 
tom-karika nukes it from orbit
08:17 / 02.05.02
nmap? i have nmap packaged with my operating system. i've used it (and other toys) to scan ports, poke around in servers and the like. Just looking. I like to find out what OS the big (very big) net machines run, look at the architecture and the size. Sometime just the size of something like Google's servers, or the huge, hulks of machines which run corporations, is enough in itself. Looking is the best fun.

Script kiddy? i am proud to say i have used no piece of software (or hardware) with the word (is it a word?) 'ph34R' anywhere near it. I prefer to make my own 'machines' out of normal network tools that I can get the source code for. I like making servers do what I ask them, making MSN accpet my grey-legal messenger client, getting Monsanto to send me their internal e-mail newsletter (which I am still getting. It's a fortnightly dose of corporate dribble, quite a reward).
 
 
Rose
09:09 / 02.05.02
"Script kiddy? i am proud to say i have used no piece of software (or hardware) with the word (is it a word?) 'ph34R' anywhere near it."

I am not sure what you mean. I haven't seen a piece of hardware inscribed with 'ph34R'. Hurm. If you are referring to a distaste for 01d-5ch001 1337 5p34k i 5u66357 U ph34R in j00r p4n75, 4 it h45 5ki115z0rs yo. YO YO YO.
I'm sorry, no really I am.

"I prefer to make my own 'machines' out of normal network tools that I can get the source code for."

What do ya mean? Do you mean you build your own machines, in a physical sense or you like Open Source over NOP (hehe Nop)?

"I like making servers do what I ask them, making MSN accpet my grey-legal messenger client, getting Monsanto to send me their internal e-mail newsletter (which I am still getting. It's a fortnightly dose of corporate dribble, quite a reward)."

You haxz0rerer you!
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
13:34 / 02.05.02
i like someone who has the most l337 UN on barbelith talking about not using scripts
 
 
tom-karika nukes it from orbit
13:34 / 02.05.02
"What do ya mean? Do you mean you build your own machines, in a physical sense or you like Open Source"

by machines, i mean programs for looking at servers, networks and other things. I like to get source code for other programs and adapt it to my purposes, take IRC clients and tern them into password brute-forcers, turn nmap into a server-specific virus and the like. I've never built much hardware, although i do dissasemble it. and yes i do like open source.
 
  
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