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Ugliness on the board

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ONLY NICE THINGS

14:57 / 29.03.06

I heart Lula.

trying to help Mister Six, take the second:

Sixy, take a look at this thread. Take a look at the people who have questioned your superiority complex, your persecution complex and now your belief that you have the power to close threads with the power of your mind. Among these people I am prepared to bet cash money is at least one person who is smarter than you, at least one person who is a better reader of people than you, at least one person who is more socially ept than you. None of these people needs to be me for this to work.

Now, every single one of these people has attempted to reason with you, and every single one has found something in your behaviour or your account unsatisfactory. And you have ignored every single one of them, preferring to sink further and further into an utterly fictitious martyrdom by deceiving yourself and, as far as I can tell, nobody else about what has happened and your part in it.

What does this tell you?

14:58 / 29.03.06

So to close the thread:

Don't say anything that might offend anyone... ever.

Hang on, while I disgorge your words from my gullet.

That's not the point I'm making - and I wish you'd stop using 'offend' and 'irritate' interchangeably. My point is, if you're going to make blanket statements as sweepingly dismissive as the "dumb-faced animals" one, be prepared to be criticised for those statements. If you're not prepared to deal with the criticism, don't make those sorts of statements.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

15:00 / 29.03.06

Lula, I agree and yes it's really getting me upset and I am trying to find closure to it.

It was an off the cuff generalization and not meant to offend anyone. If you were offended, I apologize.

Now... about my being a fucking asshole?

ONLY NICE THINGS

15:02 / 29.03.06

An open anus, I think you said. Well, it's obviously not something you should think about yoursef, but hopefully we can help you to get past this self-abnegation.

15:05 / 29.03.06

No-one has called you that.

I wasn't offended by the statement, Six. It's not about taking offence. I found it immensely aggravating and profoundly wrong-headed. And likely indicative of an 'asshole' state of mind, which - hopefully - is impermanent, and you have since reassessed.

Regrettable Juvenilia

15:06 / 29.03.06

None of these people needs to be me for this to work.

Yeah - it would be very easy for me to say "and so, if I were you, Haus, I'd sit this one out, 'cos Mister Six brought more than enough rope, so to speak", but if I said that I would be a liar, as I am very bad at sitting things out, even when that would cement the moral high ground, so to speak.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

15:06 / 29.03.06

So... your helpful words are:

"Haus in first entered Adam
16:27 / 29.03.06
I was the only person in the audience who truly UNDERSTOOD V for Vendetta. The other SHEEPLE did not understand its TRUTH! They are HUMATONS! As a result of my UNDERSTANDING, global capitalism will be DISMANTLED by MY EFFORTS by THURSDAY. I will certainly not just go home, sit on my ARSE and whine to my imaginary friends about how STUPID people who are not CLEVER LIKE ME are."

"I think I should drop the whole animal analogy and just call myself an open anus for the passivity which I can only speculate might have afflicted others in the audience, but certainly affected me.

"Yes, but you are, by your own admission, a dumb animal and/or open anus, albeit one with amazing telepathic powers. I'm trying to change that. I want to help you."

Never mind anything I said since no matter how or what I respond with it turns into a lazy susan back at me. What I'm asking is how is this a profitable way to 'correct my behavior,' governor?

I tried PMing Haus to avoid all of this and he called me a fucking asshole.

15:08 / 29.03.06

It was an off the cuff generalization and not meant to offend anyone. If you were offended, I apologize.

I honestly don't mean to keep at you about this, Six, but it's part of the problem as I see it: saying "it was an off the cuff generalisation" describes your statement but doesn't explain or excuse it and, as such, is unlikely to bring an end to (what you see as) hostilities. I think if you were to acknowledge that it was a wrong generalisation (for the reasons Lula's stated - impossible to substantiate, and rather rude) then people here would get off your back.

I also want, again, to draw a distinction between 'offend' and 'irritate'. I'd imagine that only those in the particular cinema audience might be properly offended by your statement. Irritated by the use of sweeping generalisation, yes, but it'd be harder to qualify actual offence.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

15:11 / 29.03.06

"I honestly don't mean to keep at you about this, Six, but it's part of the problem as I see it: saying "it was an off the cuff generalisation" describes your statement but doesn't explain or excuse it and, as such, is unlikely to bring an end to (what you see as) hostilities. I think if you were to acknowledge that it was a wrong generalisation (for the reasons Lula's stated - impossible to substantiate, and rather rude) then people here would get off your back."

That's okay. Yeah, I did that at the V thread.

"I also want, again, to draw a distinction between 'offend' and 'irritate'. I'd imagine that only those in the particular cinema audience might be properly offended by your statement. Irritated by the use of sweeping generalisation, yes, but it'd be harder to qualify actual offence."

Not being snarky, but seeing as how it was a judgement in my head that they know nothing about I can do nothing about it.

15:14 / 29.03.06

What I'm asking is how is this a profitable way to 'correct my behavior,' governor?

Acknowledge that it was a stupid thing to say, do your best to understand why it was a stupid thing to say, then drop it and move on. The you/Haus stuff and "why is the board so ugly" question muddy the waters; save them for another time.

And, like I say, try to avoid making that sort of generalisation again.

15:14 / 29.03.06

Your comment was rude, you got shit for it, you want to be apologized to for having been given shit, it's not going to happen, life is short, move along.

15:15 / 29.03.06

Can you please link me to where? I've read the relevant bits through again but I can't see it.

ONLY NICE THINGS

15:16 / 29.03.06

I never said you were a fucking asshole, Six. If you can't keep your story straight, you shouldn't be trying to do this. I called you a fucking idiot. You called me a wanker. Big whoop. As for the rest, I didn't call you any of those things. You called you those things. You claimed in your attempt to wriggle out of responsiblity for your nasty, bigoted tirade that actually you were sad that you hadn't changed the world after having seen V for Vendetta. That was a lie, of course, but it was a lie that meant that you were now calling _yourself_ a dumb animal and an open anus. You then clarified again that you did in fact know that the audience had been as dumb, animalistic, open and proctastic as you, with your mind. So, you were an open anus with amazing psychic powers.

By showing you how absurd, self-serving and dishonest your constant inventions and tergiversations are, I seek to help you to understand yourself and your fellow man/woman better. I'm trying to help you. So is everyone else here. They're trying to help you.

Duncan: Fair enough, sorry - I was looking for an illustration of how far off the been Mr.6 was, and must have overreached.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

15:17 / 29.03.06

I'm at work with a lousy internet connection (which is another reason why I just want to drop this), so I can only say it was at the end of the V thread in Film. I'm pretty sure I said what we'd agreed upon.

I edited my post to clarify, give it a minute to update.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

15:20 / 29.03.06

My original post:

"Unfortunately, the actual audience in the cinema consisted of dumb-faced animals. This is what filled me with a deep sadness."

15:24 / 29.03.06

That one, Lula.

Haus - no bother. We've had our disagreements, for sure, and I think normally I would try and defend a poster (to an extent, that extent being some grounds) who's aggrieved with the perceived hegemony.

15:24 / 29.03.06

And fred's last post, if you missed it:

Your comment was rude, you got shit for it, you want to be apologized to for having been given shit, it's not going to happen, life is short, move along.

Sums it up far better than anything else in here, I feel.

15:27 / 29.03.06

Not being snarky, but seeing as how it was a judgement in my head that they know nothing about I can do nothing about it.

Exactly - and since it's highly unlikely that your fellow cinema-goers are members of Barbelith, those criticising what you said are likely to be irritated rather than offended. I know it's a bit nuanced but, to me, 'offended' suggests a degree of involvement/kinship with the "dumb-faced animals" in the cinema, whereas 'irritated' is more detached, third-party. 'Offended' also seems huffier. Sweeping generalisations irritate me; they don't offend me, unless I'm included within the generalisation.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

15:31 / 29.03.06

"Very good. Now please apologise to me, G for Gundetta and Miss Wonderstarr for isnulting us when we tried to deal with your threadrot, and to everyone else for rotting the thread, and we'll say no more about it."

I'v already send a pm to Wonderstarr who was very clear in her follow up post. But Haus can eat a shit sandwich if he thinks I'm apologizing to him.

But there is absolutely no way I'm going to say sorry to Haus who comes out and personally attacks me again and again with or without the board's approval. That's just nonsense.

I'll be sure to try the 'Haus method' of helping my loved ones next holiday. 'Oh mum... I'm offendeed by what you said, you big cow, why not use that grey matter to look at what you said and think about it. Evolve, then we'll talk... fuck face.'

ONLY NICE THINGS

15:32 / 29.03.06

Anyone else seeing a Grand Canyon-sized void between what Lula suggested and what Six has done? She said acknowledge, he has instead told everyone to forget what he said and "move on". That is, once again to do what he says - like his attempt to "close the thread" on the previous page.

Six. We're trying to help you.

15:35 / 29.03.06

Six, if this is now just about snarking back at Haus or characterising the criticisms of others as "attack" or "threadrot", then I suggest you drop it and move on now. Diminishing returns from here on, I think.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

15:37 / 29.03.06

I'm more than happy to drop it. I keep asking to drop it and the result is a psychic asshole comment.

Lovely, eh?

15:41 / 29.03.06

I see the canyon most assuredly.

Mister Six, references to shit sandwiches are really, really unhelpful and very likely indeed to make lots of people somewhat cross.

Maybe you should have a look at how you respond to what Haus says in the V thread, rather than just focussing on the other way round? You may find that you have read a lot more badgering into them than is actually there.

With regard to who said what and to whom via PM, that is your personal business and should be dealt with as such. I think if you try to put your personal issues with Haus out of your head for a minute and read the thread just as it is without the 'emotional baggage' you may find yourself more unsure of your firm stance that you should not apologise.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

15:49 / 29.03.06

Let me get this straight.. again... he calls me a fucking idiot and that's okay, villifies me in conversation... again, fair game... then asks me to apologize to him after all this?

That's just nonsense.

Ban me from the board. Seriously.

I'm done with the lot of you.

15:50 / 29.03.06

I'm more than happy to drop it. I keep asking to drop it and the result is a psychic asshole comment.

Well, look, I've just checked out the V for Vendetta thread and yes, you do indeed keep asking to "drop it" but, as in the thread itself, there's not a great deal of evidence of sincere understanding on your part of why, exactly, you're getting a hard time over this. To a casual reader, you give the impression of being angry and resentful that people have picked you up on what you said, and have continued to focus on it. I agree that it's all become something of a snarkfest now, but I think that could've been avoided early on if you'd been able/willing to appreciate Miss Wonderstarr's reasonably patient attempts to explain why your comment was problematic.

(And the "open anuses" one, too, doesn't help your case either.)

I think you're being criticised (and, in places, ridiculed) because your "asking to drop it" has appeared a little like Tony Blair's repeated insistence that people 'move on' re: the Iraq conflict ie. "I'm convinced of the rightness of my case, stop attacking me, it's time to talk about something else now". One more time with feeling, perhaps?

Mister Six, whom all the girls

15:52 / 29.03.06

Can you not compare me to Tony Blair??

I get trouble for saying 'shit sandwiches' but getting compared to Tony Blair hiding the truth about the Iraq conflict is on?

15:53 / 29.03.06

Ban me from the board. Seriously.

Take responsibility, Six: stop posting, give yourself time to cool down; then, either stay away (you can do the password scramble thing) or don't. Your decision, no-one else's.

15:54 / 29.03.06

Well, I don't think anyone can be faulted for trying to engage with him there, but if he's insistent on being banned then I'd suggest that this is exactly what should be done.

What a display.

ONLY NICE THINGS

15:55 / 29.03.06

Ban me from the board. Seriously.

We can't do that, Skippy. You have to exercise willpower. If you really are sure that you don't want to be here, that is that you would rather burn your suit than have to exist in an environment where your actions were subject to any criticism at all, then you can do so by typing a whole bunch of random characters into your suit password and then saving it.

However, if you do that it will be harder for us to help you, and you'll just end up in a similar situation in another environment further down the track, with potentially more serious consequences.

15:56 / 29.03.06

Can you not compare me to Tony Blair??

Can you not ask to be banned then post again immediately afterwards?

I get trouble for saying 'shit sandwiches' but getting compared to Tony Blair hiding the truth about the Iraq conflict is on?

Purely in terms of "move on"/"drop it" = "I know I'm right, I won't seriously admit otherwise, boooring, talk about something else now", yes, it's not an invalid comparison.

Go and calm down, now. Please.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

15:58 / 29.03.06

Oh Haus, please be there to hold my hand in the real world.

I'll need your help in spotting mouth breathers and retyping people's words back at them.

ONLY NICE THINGS

16:03 / 29.03.06

Oh, Six, don't come to the Haus tonight.
Oh, Six, don't come to the Haus tonight.
Because there's somebody here
Who really really wants to help you.

Stay home,
Be bored
(It's crap I know)
Tonight.

miss wonderstarr

16:08 / 29.03.06

I was most pleasantly surprised by the calm and polite tone of your apologetic PM, Mister Six -- and then a little saddened when I came here and saw two pages of thread where, rather than explain why you despaired about your fellow audience-members (you gave me a more concrete example & reason in PM) you have been caught up in a corner, twisting and kicking out at your perceived attackers and exchanging petty jabs.

I think perhaps the fact that it was Haus who stepped in to pick you up on your comment, on the V thread, is key to your behaviour here. You don't like being corrected and ridiculed by him; you don't like his style of educating other posters; you have some history of quarrelling with him. Perhaps that's why you're particularly aggrieved and finding it hard to admit fault or explain yourself -- far harder than I think you did when talking privately to me.

If I were you I would leave it now and perhaps come back in a couple of days when the blood has cooled to give a calmer explanation of what you meant, if you still feel like it.

For other readers; I think Mister Six did manage, in PM, to quite graciously step down, talk civily and try to explain the reasons behind his rash "animals" comment. I still don't think the comment was justified, but I understand better why he said it and don't personally think he is a hopelessly rude idiot.

That he's finding it hard to express that here is, I think, due to being in a public arena up against Haus, with people watching and joining in -- which he did ask for, unfortunately.

16:19 / 29.03.06

Well stated, wonderstarr.

Six, seriously. Take a break from the place. It's at too much of a boil for anything to be done constructively right now.

Jawsus-son Starship

16:22 / 29.03.06

Hey Haus, have you had a bad day today? Becuase it seems like you've tried really hard to get angry about some pretty fucking innocuous comment. Are you tired? Are you getting tired little one?

Seriously, I've posted before about you poking people, but this is different from calling out a rascist or sexist pig. It's calling out a guy who called a bunch of people dumb animals. Was nobody denying the holocaust today, or saying about banging locals?

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